Senate Voted To Block Turkey From Getting Its F-35s As Spat Over Russian Missiles Grows

GhostZ06

GhostZ06

Steel Belt
@Steel
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
32,728
Reaction score
9,855
The U.S. Senate has added a clause to its version of the annual defense budget bill for the 2019 fiscal year that seeks to block the transfer of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Turkey. The vote was a response to that country’s purchase of Russian S-400 air defense systems and arrest and prosecution of an American citizen, but it won’t come into effect before Turkish authorities take delivery of their first batch of the stealthy jets and both sides appear to be preparing for a broader political crisis.

On June 18, 2018, Senators voted 85 to 10 to include the provision targeting Turkey’s participation in the F-35 program into the 2019 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). The Turkish government has been one of six major partner nations in the Joint Strike Fighter project since 2002, is responsible for production of certain components of the jet, is slated to provide maintenance services to other operators in Europe, and has more than 100 of the aircraft on order, making it one of the biggest overall customers.
“NATO partners need these F-35s to counter Russian activity,” Senator Jeanne Shaheen, a Democrat from New Hampshire, who co-sponsored the change in the NDAA with North Carolina Republic Thom Tillis, said after the vote. “We would be handing this technology over to the Kremlin if we granted Turkey these planes, and Congress will not stand for it.”


The added proviso would block the Pentagon from using any of its funds to enable the transfer of F-35s, or any related technical data or support services, to Turkey, unless Congress gets assurances that certain demands are met. These include making sure secret information about the aircraft stays out of Russian hands and the release of Andrew Brunson, an American evangelical Presbyterian minister who is on trial for espionage and attempting to destabilize the Turkish government. His lawyers say the charges are spurious and politically motivated. In April 2018, Shaheen and Tillis, along with Republic Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma, introduced separate legislationalong the same lines.
Click to expand...



he United States and Turkey have been trying to resolve the issue, but have remained largely at an impasse over core issue, which is Turkey’s decision in 2017 to buy Russian S-400 surface-to-air missile systems. This is a saga unto itself that you can read about more here.

Turkish authorities insist that this system best meets their long-standing requirements for a more modern, long-range air defense system to replace various Cold War-era gear they still have in service. Other NATO nations, members of the Joint Strike Fighter program who are not part of the alliance, and the United States in particular, are all concerned that the deal could allow Russia to get a hold of secret technical data on the jet’s capabilities. In addition, having the S-400 linked into Turkish defense networks could potentially give Russian technicians access to sensitive information that passes through the cloud-based, multi-national ALIS system.

A delegation led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has reportedly tried to finagle a deal by which Turkey can take delivery of the S-400s, but not use them. This could allow President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his administration, which has stood firmly defiant over the issue, to save face, but Turkish authorities have apparently rejected this course of action.

"What laws will you [the United States] apply to impose sanctions on the purchase of the S-400?” Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said in response to the Senate’s vote. “This is a wrong approach; it will lead to a crisis. We have purchased the S-400 and let's stop talking about this.”
Click to expand...



lol @ turkey
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...its-f-35s-as-spat-over-russian-missiles-grows
 
I don't think Erdogan can do too much about this since he is already planning for a war on the crusaders in Austria. With that said, Turkey is on a path of isolation and theocracy.
 
Son of Jamin said:
I don't think Erdogan can do too much about this since he is already planning for a war on the crusaders in Austria. With that said, Turkey is on a path of isolation and theocracy.
Click to expand...

And on a path to sucking russians dick. They seem to have ottoman empire dreams
 
GhostZ06 said:
And on a path to sucking russians dick. They seem to have ottoman empire dreams
Click to expand...

They are building nuclear power plants with Russian help. We all know what it’s going to be like with Erdogan having access to the possibility of having nuclear weapons.
 
Supereem said:
They are building nuclear power plants with Russian help. We all know what it’s going to be like with Erdogan having access to the possibility of having nuclear weapons.
Click to expand...

i wish we'd pull ours out of fucking turkey
 
maybe CANada will take advantage of the open production slots


bork1}
 
Doubt it. Trudeau made too much noise about canning the F35 early on to change his mind. Seems to have backed himself into a corner now that Boeing is in the Canadian doghouse too (no Super Hornets)...

Unfortunately I expect Canadian fighter procurement to languish until the next change of government.
 
Boagrius said:
Doubt it. Trudeau made too much noise about canning the F35 early on to change his mind. Seems to have backed himself into a corner now that Boeing is in the Canadian doghouse too (no Super Hornets)...

Unfortunately I expect Canadian fighter procurement to languish until the next change of government.
Click to expand...

agree

the 'next generation fighter' program office is too busy figuring out what in the hell to do with your surplus classic hornets haha
 
Boagrius said:
Doubt it. Trudeau made too much noise about canning the F35 early on to change his mind. Seems to have backed himself into a corner now that Boeing is in the Canadian doghouse too (no Super Hornets)...

Unfortunately I expect Canadian fighter procurement to languish until the next change of government.
Click to expand...

It will, and by design. The contract award is scheduled for 2021-22. We're not even going to decide what company is going to build the jets for another 3-4 years.
 
Boagrius said:
Doubt it. Trudeau made too much noise about canning the F35 early on to change his mind. Seems to have backed himself into a corner now that Boeing is in the Canadian doghouse too (no Super Hornets)...

Unfortunately I expect Canadian fighter procurement to languish until the next change of government.
Click to expand...

Mexico and Canada just ride on the fact that the US wont ever allow any military action against its neighbors which could serve as a landing ground for any foreign power.

That was pretty darn clear when the US kicked the French out of Mexico.
 
Really frustrating that we even sell our weapons systems to other countries in the first place. Why? Why not maintain far and away military superiority, rather than literally gift wrapping A+ pieces of tech that can be reverse engineered?

If the up-price of selling weapons to say major allies like Canada and England is enough to almost fully fund the bloated military budget, then maybe it'd be worth it. But it's clearly not judging by the amount of our tax money that goes to that never ending piece of the pie
 
^It's not that simple. Smaller but strategically important American allies like Canada, Australia, Turkey (until now) etc. simply don't have the industrial capacity to self sufficiently develop their own high end military hardware nor the raw wealth to do so in a viable way. Moreover, certain technologies (the F35 being one of them) were designed to be "export friendly" with significant anti-tamper tech built in to make them extremely difficult to "reverse engineer" or otherwise gleen sensitive information from. That said, the way Erdogan has been behaving of late is a massive red flag. As a citizen of a country that is poised to be a leading F35 operator, I am not at all enthusiastic about a guy like him having F35's at his disposal. I doubt it would be a big leap for a leader like that to hand a working airframe over to the Russians etc for "inspection". That's to say nothing of how troublesome an F35 equipped Turkish airforce might be if the country really went to crap (seems more possible by the day).
 
Last edited:
Boagrius said:
I doubt it would be a big leap for a leader like that to hand a working airframe over to the Russians etc for "inspection".
Click to expand...

this is my worry as well

look at the b-29/tu-4 and how that sort of intelligence coup gave their aerospace industry a generational boost
 
Rest assured the F35 is probably a lot more difficult to copy than the B29 ever was. The more immediate issue would be the Russians getting to closely analyse the aircraft's radar and IR signatures so as to optmise the tuning of their own sensors and weapons to counter it.

A big advantage the US has over the Russians (that rarely seems to get talked about) is the fact that the Soviet economic collapse triggered a fire sale of high tech equipment from the 90s onwards to anyone with cash. The US et al have subsequently been able to closely examine and train against some pretty cutting edge Russian gear (think S300 variants, Su27, Su30MKI etc). The Russians have not benefited from comparable exposure to US technology in the same timeframe. In light of this, it would be silly to potentially hand it to them via Mr Erdogan...
 
Boagrius said:
^It's not that simple. Smaller but strategically important American allies like Canada, Australia, Turkey (until now) etc. simply don't have the industrial capacity to self sufficiently develop their own high end military hardware nor the raw wealth to do so in a viable way. Moreover, certain technologies (the F35 being one of them) were designed to be "export friendly" with significant anti-tamper tech built in to make them extremely difficult to "reverse engineer" or otherwise gleen sensitive information from. That said, the way Erdogan has been behaving of late is a massive red flag. As a citizen of a country that is poised to be a leading F35 operator, I am not at all enthusiastic about a guy like him having F35's at his disposal. I doubt it would be a big leap for a leader like that to hand a working airframe over to the Russians etc for "inspection". That's to say nothing of how troublesome an F35 equipped Turkish airforce might be if the country really went to crap (seems more possible by the day).
Click to expand...


To be fair, canada vould develope its own jet since they have some really god skilled workers with high end metal and material. But theyre goverment is spineless an gutless when it comes to defense spending
 
GhostZ06 said:
To be fair, canada vould develope its own jet since they have some really god skilled workers with high end metal and material. But theyre goverment is spineless an gutless when it comes to defense spending
Click to expand...

lol, never again

i was fascinated by the arrow as a kid but my god what a money pit

FILEPIC2-280211.JPG
 
flashNsmash said:
lol, never again

i was fascinated by the arrow as a kid but my god what a money pit

FILEPIC2-280211.JPG
Click to expand...

yeah but it was so Advanced and way ahead of its time. It would have been worth it in the long run
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,888
Messages
55,451,354
Members
174,783
Latest member
notnormal

Share this page

Back
Top