Wow. Between you and
@waiguoren's post, I suspect there's just too big a gulf between authoritarians and liberals to even communicate on the issue.
So now you're labeling me an authoritarian. A few months ago, you labeled me a libertarian. I can't be both. Maybe you should try to label people less frequently and focus on faithfully engaging on the facts.
That's totally irrelevant here. Before ICE we had the INS. The INS was carrying out the same kind of raids long before 2003.
and I hadn't seen videos of this earlier. It seems like a very human response to the kind of stomach-turning videos I posted.
Are you looking for an emotional response?
What do you expect will happen when law enforcement has a warrant for someone's arrest and is denied entry?
I have a point of reference from my personal life. When I was 13 years old our doorbell rang. I walked to the front door and peered out the small window on the side. I was looking at fully fledged SWAT team about one foot from my face. I can't remember if I opened the door or if they opened it, but they immediately pushed me to the floor and tied my hands behind my back with some kind of plastic tie, then found my mother and little sister and did the same to them. There were 10 to 12 of them in full gear, all with assault rifles.
As in your clip, the team was looking for a criminal on a non-violent charge (in my case, drug trafficking). Like the target in the video you posted, the target in my situation also had a prior battery conviction. Also in my situation, the target was known to have acquired firearms illegally. I suppose that's why the local police sent the SWAT team instead of the relatively less advanced kind of team from your video.
Emotions will be different between different kinds of people. I stayed pretty cool the whole time but my mom and sister were crying and really shaken up.
So instead of focusing on the emotion of the situation as you have, please explain what the ICE team should have done differently. Should they have asked really really nicely for the mother to open the door? Should they have camped out on the front porch until the family needed to go out for food?
I guess you have trouble relating because you think it's good that the gov't can literally bust your door down and point guns at your kids if you're suspected of committing a non-violent, victimless crime and they don't immediately let agents in with no indication that they have a right to be there.
Given the above anecdote, I'm guessing I can relate better than you can. ICE was searching for a man with a prior felony conviction, known to be in the country illegally, and who had a record of 16 (!) prior deportations.
No, I don't think it's a "good thing" that the government can pry open your front door, but I view it as a necessary evil in this situation. I'm open to changing my mind if you can present an alternative solution.
And again, the video does not show ICE officers pointing guns at children.
But you are assuming a motive and language that is not in evidence, are you not?
We seem to differ on the meaning of "assume". To me, there is an important difference between a "suspicion" and an "assumption". I do not assume Gillibrand's motives, but I suspect her of having motives unrelated to policy given her history and the upcoming attacks she will need to fend off. I'm not ruling out the possibility that she also thinks the provisions of her bill are desirable.
