Sexual harassment claims have gone too far.

[Kframe]

He is resorting to strawman territory now and making up others positions as more and more people are calling out his bullshit in hte other thread.

When a guy suggests communication and relationships are complex...

He replies with...



Which the guy never said or even suggested.

Yes he did.

 

[Kframe]

I never said speech is not important.

When you're on a net forum, reading is important, though.

Maybe you should try that and go re-read what I wrote.

I did read your nonsense. You don't think speech is important.

 

[Fawlty]

So your ironic hyperbole is baseless?

Clearly not baseless. Best not to use inaccurate attacking language. McMann is getting grief for not taking "no" or "I'm not in the mood" as meaning that it would morally wrong to try to convince her otherwise. Aside from actual coercion, like marital rape or really dirty psychological tricks, there is a lot of space for negotiating married sex. He's not describing anything like that.

 

[tonni]

Clearly not baseless. Best not to use inaccurate attacking language. McMann is getting grief for not taking "no" or "I'm not in the mood" as meaning that it would morally wrong to try to convince her otherwise. Aside from actual coercion, like marital rape or really dirty psychological tricks, there is a lot of space for negotiating married sex. He's not describing anything like that.

Well, it's creepy and pushy for sure imo. And saying ironically to "watch out that you don't grab her waist or it's harassment" is just silly. You don't see the difference between pushing for sex and holding your wife? Buddy that's creepy. Your whole post is creepy.

Like how do you expect me to appreciate the sentence "there's a lot of space for negotiating married sex" that's fucking weird.

 

[Fawlty]

Well, it's creepy and pushy for sure imo. And saying ironically to "watch out that you don't grab her waist or it's harassment" is just silly. You don't see the difference between pushing for sex and holding your wife? Buddy that's creepy. Your whole post is creepy.

Like how do you expect me to appreciate the sentence "there's a lot of space for negotiating married sex" that's fucking weird.

I don't believe that you actually think my post is creepy. I think you're having a tough time because he's not suggesting anything morally wrong, and you're calling me creepy to avoid a difficult subjective discussion.

Married or long-term relationship sex is a whole different beast. The jokes people make and the funny situations in sitcoms are there for a reason, and they are effective and funny for a reason. There can be weeks on end when you just don't want to see their fucking face, but you also both have a duty to the marriage to maintain the sexual intimacy, even if it takes a long time to get into it. That's a really ironic situation. Marriage is not sexy. As long as you're not psychologically damaging the other person or otherwise harming them, or actually assaulting them, then there is huge grey area there between couples to be pushy, or begging (lol), bargaining, or convincing, etc. in ways that are otherwise inappropriate, but make sense in terms of a married or long-term relationship when the fire isn't exactly blazing.

 

[tonni]

I don't believe that you actually think my post is creepy. I think you're having a tough time because he's not suggesting anything morally wrong, and you're calling me creepy to avoid a difficult subjective discussion.

think what you want. your post gave off the wrong vibe.

Married or long-term relationship sex is a whole different beast. The jokes people make and the funny situations in sitcoms are there for a reason, and they are effective and funny for a reason. There can be weeks on end when you just don't want to see their fucking face, but you also both have a duty to the marriage to maintain the sexual intimacy, even if it takes a long time to get into it. That's a really ironic situation. Marriage is not sexy. As long as you're not psychologically damaging the other person or otherwise harming them, or actually assaulting them, then there is huge grey area there between couples to be pushy, or begging (lol), bargaining, or convincing, etc. in ways that are otherwise inappropriate, but make sense in terms of a married or long-term relationship when the fire isn't exactly blazing.

Nope, can't follow you there. You have a weird way of wording your thoughts on this topic. A "duty to the marriage to maintain the sexual intimacy"? Why? Sounds forced and super unsexy.

I'd rather not have sex than having to beg/negotiate/be pushy in any way. I'm in a long term relationship and I don't consider it her duty to have sex with me. Seems like the least sexy thing you could ever do is beg and moan or whatever.

Serious question, you'd have sex with your wife even if she doesn't feel like it but she considers it her duty? And your wife can't stand to see your face for weeks?

What the fuck man, that sounds awful. Never had that.

 

[Fawlty]

think what you want. your post gave off the wrong vibe.


Nope, can't follow you there. You have a weird way of wording your thoughts on this topic. A "duty to the marriage to maintain the sexual intimacy"? Why? Sounds forced and super unsexy.

I'd rather not have sex than having to beg/negotiate/be pushy in any way. I'm in a long term relationship and I don't consider it her duty to have sex with me. Seems like the least sexy thing you could ever do is beg and moan or whatever.

Serious question, you'd have sex with your wife even if she doesn't feel like it but she considers it her duty? And your wife can't stand to see your face for weeks?

What the fuck man, that sounds awful. Never had that.

You're skipping the step where the wife or husband actually gets convinced to have sex. That doesn't mean "go in dry." Yeah, of course it's a duty of marriage to be sexually intimate to a degree. It sometimes takes a lot of work to overcome the unsexy-ness of long term relationships. No, I've never knowingly had sex with somebody who didn't feel like it but thought it was her duty. I dislike rape fantasy play too. It's not sexy to me if she's not overtly into it.

 

[tonni]

You're skipping the step where the wife or husband actually gets convinced to have sex. That doesn't mean "go in dry." Yeah, of course it's a duty of marriage to be sexually intimate to a degree. It sometimes takes a lot of work to overcome the unsexy-ness of long term relationships. No, I've never knowingly had sex with somebody who didn't feel like it but thought it was her duty. I dislike rape fantasy play too. It's not sexy to me if she's not overtly into it.

Right, that was a needed clarification. I'm not very comfortable with the term "duty" I guess. That's very abusable.

I'll get back at you later if I come up with something useful to add to this convo.

 

[MikeMcMann]

You're skipping the step where the wife or husband actually gets convinced to have sex. That doesn't mean "go in dry." Yeah, of course it's a duty of marriage to be sexually intimate to a degree. It sometimes takes a lot of work to overcome the unsexy-ness of long term relationships. No, I've never knowingly had sex with somebody who didn't feel like it but thought it was her duty. I dislike rape fantasy play too. It's not sexy to me if she's not overtly into it.

'rape fantasy play', ahh that is the term for it. never heard that before. That is basically what my prior girlfriend to my current one was asking for and where I refuse to go. Nothing wrong with it, i guess if you are both into it. But I was not comfortable with it.

 

[Fawlty]

'rape fantasy play', ahh that is the term for it. never heard that before. That is basically what my prior girlfriend to my current one was asking for and where I refuse to go. Nothing wrong with it, i guess if you are both into it. But I was not comfortable with it.

I had one who wanted me to fuck her while holding a gun in her mouth. She had some serious issues.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Right, that was a needed clarification. I'm not very comfortable with the term "duty" I guess. That's very abusable.

Duty seems to me the right word

Forget that duty in a marriage and youve got problems. Since its a 2 way street the word doesnt seem to be so dirty ya know ?

You married ? Longest you ever been with someone ? There is indeed plenty of negotiating room like fawlty said and I think you might not get it is all

When you are married No doesnt mean no But that doesnt mean you got in dry like someone else mentioned but you do have a duty to your spouse to please them and cant just be telling them no all the time like thats the end of the conversation

You guys are insane if you think your wife telling you she isnt in the mood is the end of it or you are some kinda creep

 

[MikeMcMann]

I had one who wanted me to fuck her while holding a gun in her mouth. She had some serious issues.

That is really it out there in what I would call fetish land and I'm certainly not going to play.

My ex again this petite demure, submissive gal who pretty much always required me to initiate sex flat out told me I could rape her saying sheepishly, ' but only me' which she explained to me meant to her that I could, at any time,.forcibly grab her and drag her into the bedroom or wherever and have my way with her sexually.

Now we always had a good sex life despite me having to initiate everything but that was something I just was not comfortable with and never did.

Shock.I guess to some that all women are different and go from extremes like this to everything in between

 

[funcrusher2007]

Are guys like @Kframe above just beta dudes or is this the new reality for dudes in this PC world.

he honestly thinks that if a husband or boyfriend is horny and the wife or girlfriend says she is not in that moment that any attempt to try and make her horny is abusive and at the best pity sex if you get it and never consensual. He seems to be unable to comprehend that if one person in a relationship is super turned or horny and persistent, that in and of itself can make the other person GET horny and want it. That feeling the other persons desire can be one of the hotter ways to have spontaneous sex.

I am so shocked by this that I started a thread here to ask that question?

Lol..that’s some far out shit in my book..maybe it’s just my marriage.

But my wife has told me on many occasions that she “loves when I take her”..meaning ,I don’t ask I just do.

I think ive pushed my wife’s head in my lap probably over 100 times lol. I can’t rememember the last time my wife did the “I’m not in the mood “ thing but I’m pretty sure that’s never stopped me. I work out /keep up my appearance/give as much as I get/tons effort and work into keeping our flame cooking...so honestly I don’t hear that often..but in the times she has said it,.i smooth talk it or out right take it lol...

It’s worked pretty well considering we just celebrated our twentieth anniversary and have been together since we were 18...our daughters in college and house almost paid off..life’s great

I personally think the way a man carries himself when it comes to sex is the biggest turn on for a women...if he’s a beta that is always asking/begging for it...the women is going to be turned off by that.

If he’s confident,knows what he wants and knows how to please his women then sex is coming reg anyway.


Kids nowadays Are wierd lol...over think shit and get there relationship advice from sociology majors and feminist driven females..that’s a one way ticket to splitsville...Marriage/relationship nowadays is about compromise..

@Kframe ive read through your posts here...I gotta side with mike on this..you’ve confused sexual aggression with sexual harassment..either that or sex must really be a formal/boring thing for you..nothing personal but that’s the vibe I get from your posts.

I’m about to go to bed ..my wife might be tired,I’m Horny so that just means I’m doing the work this time,fine by me.

 

[funcrusher2007]

Duty seems to me the right word

Forget that duty in a marriage and youve got problems. Since its a 2 way street the word doesnt seem to be so dirty ya know ?

You married ? Longest you ever been with someone ? There is indeed plenty of negotiating room like fawlty said and I think you might not get it is all

When you are married No doesnt mean no But that doesnt mean you got in dry like someone else mentioned but you do have a duty to your spouse to please them and cant just be telling them no all the time like thats the end of the conversation

You guys are insane if you think your wife telling you she isnt in the mood is the end of it or you are some kinda creep

Amen. Long time married here.you summed it up perfect.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Lol..that’s some far out shit in my book..maybe it’s just my marriage.

But my wife has told me on many occasions that she “loves when I take her”..meaning ,I don’t ask I just do.

I think ive pushed my wife’s head in my lap probably over 100 times lol. I can’t rememember the last time my wife did the “I’m not in the mood “ thing but I’m pretty sure that’s never stopped me. I work out /keep up my appearance/give as much as I get/tons effort and work into keeping our flame cooking...so honestly I don’t hear that often..but in the times she has said it,.i smooth talk it or out right take it lol...

It’s worked pretty well considering we just celebrated our twentieth anniversary and have been together since we were 18...our daughters in college and house almost paid off..life’s great

I personally think the way a man carries himself when it comes to sex is the biggest turn on for a women...if he’s a beta that is always asking/begging for it...the women is going to be turned off by that.

If he’s confident,knows what he wants and knows how to please his women then sex is coming reg anyway.


Kids nowadays Are wierd lol.

@Kframe ive read through your posts here...I gotta side with mike on this..you’ve confused sexual aggression with sexual harassment..either that or sex must really be a formal/boring thing for you..nothing personal but that’s the vibe I get from your posts.

I’m about to go to bed ..my wife might be tired,I’m Horny so that just means I’m doing the work this time,fine by me.

I agree and started by wondering if its a generational thing where the younger people now think any sexual aggression is bad. Heck they think the word aggression alone is bad.

Aggression =/= forcing against ones will. it means imposing your desire and self upon someone and having them submit willing because they want to. Because they find that sexy as fuck to know their partner wants them that badly.

 

[funcrusher2007]

I agree and started by wondering if its a generational thing where the younger people now think any sexual aggression is bad. Heck they think the word aggression alone is bad.

Aggression =/= forcing against ones will. it means imposing your desire and self upon someone and having them submit willing because they want to. Because they find that sexy as fuck to know their partner wants them that badly.

Dude..I just read most recent posts by @Kframe ...

Either he’s just mega trolling or he is literally one of the most out of touch males when it comes to women I’ve ever experienced .

I honestly think his uber feminist/sjw stance is going to hurt him in the long run..he’s gonna be friend zoned,cheated on, dumped or forever alone.
No long term relationship would ever work with the kinda dynamic he adheres to, it’d be stale/flat and one of the people would get bored really fast.

 

[Kframe]

Dude..I just read most recent posts by @Kframe ...

Either he’s just mega trolling or he is literally one of the most out of touch males when it comes to women I’ve ever experienced .

I honestly think his uber feminist/sjw stance is going to hurt him in the long run..he’s gonna be friend zoned,cheated on, dumped or forever alone.
No long term relationship would ever work with the kinda dynamic he adheres to, it’d be stale/flat and one of the people would get bored really fast.

Because I don't believe in playing your PUA games and using coercion? Because i respect her words when she utters them? So seeking actual consent is being a feminist now? Not sure how that is a bad thing. I just find that any relationship were you have to play mind games to get them to fuck you is not a real or satisfying relationship. I want a mutual partner, one as interest in me as i am in them. Not someone i have to coerce..

 

[MikeMcMann]

Dude..I just read most recent posts by @Kframe ...

Either he’s just mega trolling or he is literally one of the most out of touch males when it comes to women I’ve ever experienced .

I honestly think his uber feminist/sjw stance is going to hurt him in the long run..he’s gonna be friend zoned,cheated on, dumped or forever alone.
No long term relationship would ever work with the kinda dynamic he adheres to, it’d be stale/flat and one of the people would get bored really fast.

Yup.
He thinks all women are 100% the same and they all want the exact same approach from every man and that is some type of joint approach to sex where everything happens in unison. In his view a man or woman can never be horn before the other and ready before the other and try to convince the other.

 

[funcrusher2007]

Because I don't believe in playing your PUA games and using coercion? Because i respect her words when she utters them? So seeking actual consent is being a feminist now? Not sure how that is a bad thing. I just find that any relationship were you have to play mind games to get them to fuck you is not a real or satisfying relationship. I want a mutual partner, one as interest in me as i am in them. Not someone i have to coerce..

Good luck bro.seriously good luck ..if you want a relationship that last past five years I hope you progress more in the male/female dynamics dept.
Please don’t take that as a personal diss,I truly am trying to help you...you are trying to equate sexual aggression as “mind games”..women really do like to be desired and shown through physical aggression that a man wants them..any sociologist worth there weight in salt will back that claim up...he’ll ill help you here.
https://www.bustle.com/articles/724...rdered-around-in-bed-because-yes-you-can-be-a

Article by a sex therapist from San Francisco that further backs our collective claims..don’t take my word for it.take a women’s word.
There in lies the problem I think..

I don’t think you have much experience with women..or you’ve surrounded yourself with people/women/educators who have a skewed perception of common sexual behavior,thereby influencing your idealism’s and out of touch nature..

Simply put.. you don’t know women.

 

[Kframe]

Good luck bro.seriously good luck ..if you want a relationship that last past five years I hope you progress more in the male/female dynamics dept.
Please don’t take that as a personal diss,I truly am trying to help you...you are trying to equate sexual aggression as “mind games”..women really do like to be desired and shown through physical aggression that a man wants them..any sociologist worth there weight in salt will back that claim up...he’ll ill help you here.
https://www.bustle.com/articles/724...rdered-around-in-bed-because-yes-you-can-be-a

Article by a sex therapist from San Francisco that further backs our collective claims..don’t take my word for it.take a women’s word.
There in lies the problem I think..

I don’t think you have much experience with women..or you’ve surrounded yourself with people/women/educators who have a skewed perception of common sexual behavior,thereby influencing your idealism’s and out of touch nature..

Simply put.. you don’t know women.

Simply put, you sound like a rapist.