SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 110: Zodiac

I was zoning out or something while reading that and had to go back and start the sentence over. Then I realized what you were saying...

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If that were true it would make Ted the GOAT for having not one but two serial killer careers under two different names. The "thank you" at the end really bothers me somewhat. The T's in both intersect the h's, the a's are formed in a similar way, as are the k's and y's.


Yeah, poorly phrased. But I can't recall the details so well and didn't want to embellish.

Even more mind-blowing would be if he had a 3rd string of infamous killings under his belt. The case for Ted being the Tylenol killer looks pretty damn interesting. In fact I'd be inclined to bet that he was, if I had to lay money down.

Short version.

Long version.

Amazing coincidence between Zodiac, Tylenol, & Ted.
 
Bro, if there is 43 just for this year then there is almost definitely a serial killer on the loose, or two. And the number 43 would be a conservative estimate because there will be more that are not known about.

Most of the ones I clicked on were gun related, and most involved the killer knowing the victim. I looked at the rate for the past few years, and the trend seems to be that murders in the city are overwhelmingly taking place in the bad parts of town. Unless there’s some The Wire type of shit going on where gangs are stuffing dead bodies into abandoned apartment buildings, I honestly do find the idea of a serial killer stalking the streets of Pittsburgh and preying on victims to be kinda far-fetched. I feel something like that would be getting covered here. Just like that story about the two guys who fell off the bridges and drowned. Even the biggest newspaper in town was pushing the “could it be a serial killer?” narrative.

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...istrict-attorney-podcast/stories/201711160174

I don’t doubt there are serial killers still out there in society, but I’m not totally convinced there is one here. The closest thing to a serial killer here is when they film Mindhunter in Pittsburgh, which second season is being filmed here right now.

Although, I will mention that where I used to work, the place was an old municipal building which used to doubled as a police and fire station back in its day, and when they abandoned the building, they left so much crap behind. In one of the old evidence rooms there’s a headboard with two long orange cloths tied on to it. We later learned from a retired police chief who worked there, that the headboard was from a serial rapist case back in like the 60s, and those cloths were used to tie his victims to the headboard. Hearing that was eerie as hell considering I’ve stood next to the thing.
 
In regards to Summer of Sam, it’s a good movie. It’s almost impossible to do a Son of Sam movie without including everything else going on in NYC at the time. Heat wave, World Series, power outage and ensuing riots, studio 54 and disco, the rise of the punk scene. It’s considered a fairly landmark year in New York. Son of Sam was just another big apple story. The series Bronx Is Burning(about Reggie Jackson and Billy Martin) took a similar approach to Summer of Sam and Son of Sam was a side story in that.

When I first saw Summer of Sam I was disappointed that it wasn’t really about the Son of Sam anymore than it was about any of those other things.

However, you realize it tells basically all there is to tell about Berkowitz. For a guy who has been captured fir decades, authored books(I believe) and supposedly reformed there is really not that much known about Berkowitz. The main reason is that he’s completely full of shit and was never straight with anybody about his story or motivations. So for all we know, Berkowitz was just a slob in a grungy apartment who just rocked back and forth complaining about a barking dog. Summer of Sam covers just about all there is to cover.

For a more comprehensive Berkowitz film you would likely have to get into theory. Because the big thing that hovered over the Son of Sam killings was Satanism and if Berkowitz was part of a cult. That’s not really Spike Lees style though.

I think Summer of Sam is probably the best narrative for a Son of Sam adaption.

The big problem with it is of course Spike Lees obsession with stereotyping Italian Americans as stupid clowns and his obvious lack of knowledge of scenes such as CBGBs.

Other than that, Summer of Sam has a great atmosphere.

Yeah, I figured this is a movie that I should probably revisit. I just remember being disappointed and upset that it barely had anything to do with Berkowitz. I remember reading Jimmy Breslin’s book .44 beforehand, so I was expecting something more in tune with that. It’s probably been something like 18 years since I watched it, so maybe today’s me can appreciate it more knowing what I know about it going in.
 
Yeah, poorly phrased. But I can't recall the details so well and didn't want to embellish.

Even more mind-blowing would be if he had a 3rd string of infamous killings under his belt. The case for Ted being the Tylenol killer looks pretty damn interesting. In fact I'd be inclined to bet that he was, if I had to lay money down.

Short version.

Long version.

Amazing coincidence between Zodiac, Tylenol, & Ted.

I didn't mean poorly written, I mean it blew my mind. If that happened to me I would shit a brick.

"in chemistry enantiomers are chiral molecules that structurally appear to be mirror images of one another."

Zodiak killings.

tumblr_p3rotjMgjs1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg


Tylenol killings

tumblr_p3rot4K3ap1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg



gif-faint03.gif
 
I didn't mean poorly written, I mean it blew my mind. If that happened to me I would shit a brick.

"in chemistry enantiomers are chiral molecules that structurally appear to be mirror images of one another."

Zodiak killings.

tumblr_p3rotjMgjs1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg


Tylenol killings

tumblr_p3rot4K3ap1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg



gif-faint03.gif


lol.

Those maps blew my mind. Even in the film Avery noted that all the locations for Zodiac has something water/tree related in the names. Ted's Unabomber journals refer to past crimes he'd like to keep hidden. Zodiac claimed to have broken out of a prison in Deer Lodge, Montana. Ted was scouting land and moved near there so he'd know there was a prison. Ted also liked circles with lines.


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@Cubo de Sangre

This is nuts....

Information has developed concerning a possible new suspect in the Tylenol Murders. There are media reports about possible evidence connected to the Tylenol case, including partial fingerprints from the tampered bottles and new forensic evidence. If a match can be made between the suspected evidence left behind from the Tylenol Killer and this man, perhaps this case can finally be solved. This man, like the Tylenol Killer, killed by remote control, killed from a distance. He left items in public places where whoever picked them up would be maimed or killed.

This suspect was later convicted of multiple murders, had a genius level IQ, sufficient knowledge of science, engineering and chemicals to create the Cyanide filled tablets and defeat the tamper resistant packaging and when arrested had Strychnine poison in his home. In addition, he had an intense hatred for the modern consumer system, despised large corporations and also expressed the desire to kill large numbers of random people to get his personal "revenge" on society. This suspect also did do a little gold and silver prospecting, and Cyanide is used for that purpose. This same suspect also had a family home that he sometimes stayed at in Lombard, Illinois that was within 20 minutes of all the known Chicago area tampering sites, at the exact epicenter in fact, and there is some evidence he was in the area at the time. The suspect is Theodore Kaczynski, the man later known as the "Unabomber", who killed at least three persons and wounded over two dozen in his anti-technology and anti-corporate crusade.
 
@Cubo de Sangre

This is nuts....

Information has developed concerning a possible new suspect in the Tylenol Murders. There are media reports about possible evidence connected to the Tylenol case, including partial fingerprints from the tampered bottles and new forensic evidence. If a match can be made between the suspected evidence left behind from the Tylenol Killer and this man, perhaps this case can finally be solved. This man, like the Tylenol Killer, killed by remote control, killed from a distance. He left items in public places where whoever picked them up would be maimed or killed.

This suspect was later convicted of multiple murders, had a genius level IQ, sufficient knowledge of science, engineering and chemicals to create the Cyanide filled tablets and defeat the tamper resistant packaging and when arrested had Strychnine poison in his home. In addition, he had an intense hatred for the modern consumer system, despised large corporations and also expressed the desire to kill large numbers of random people to get his personal "revenge" on society. This suspect also did do a little gold and silver prospecting, and Cyanide is used for that purpose. This same suspect also had a family home that he sometimes stayed at in Lombard, Illinois that was within 20 minutes of all the known Chicago area tampering sites, at the exact epicenter in fact, and there is some evidence he was in the area at the time. The suspect is Theodore Kaczynski, the man later known as the "Unabomber", who killed at least three persons and wounded over two dozen in his anti-technology and anti-corporate crusade.


If it ain't Ted then it's an amazing amount of coincidence. The connection to cyanide spills poising water and wildlife in Montana answers the question of motive. In his twisted mind it's probably seen as turnabout is fair play. The Ted K rabbit-hole for the Z and Tylenol crimes is deep so beware! :cool:
 
lol.

Those maps blew my mind. Even in the film Avery noted that all the locations for Zodiac has something water/tree related in the names. Ted's Unabomber journals refer to past crimes he'd like to keep hidden. Zodiac claimed to have broken out of a prison in Deer Lodge, Montana. Ted was scouting land and moved near there so he'd know there was a prison. Ted also liked circles with lines.


file.php

Damn bro, I'm pretty well versed in the conspiracy and theory world and I've never seen this connection. The Zodiac was never caught, the Tylenol killer was never caught, the Unabomber was only finally caught through basically a big dose of luck. I never put together that the methods of more long distance killing like guns, bombs, and poison were consistent with Ted Kaczynski. His parents house was the epicenter of the Tylenol killings and Cal Berkeley was the epicenter of the Zodiac killings where Ted went to school. His personal journals spoke of crimes of the past he wanted to keep secret.

That is just crazy. Why if he's finally caught would he want to not give the big reveal? Seems like he would want to say I'm the greatest of all time, I'm all 3 of these killers but maybe his motivations are foreign to me.
 
If it ain't Ted then it's an amazing amount of coincidence. The connection to cyanide spills poising water and wildlife in Montana answers the question of motive. In his twisted mind it's probably seen as turnabout is fair play. The Ted K rabbit-hole for the Z and Tylenol crimes is deep so beware! :cool:

I have to try to absorb this some more, you've blown my mind. Weird too that he is a guy who would have the education and intelligence, he was a genius, to pull off something this complex. The guy had a doctorate level education. It would be the ultimate long game. The fact he was from Montana and would have had access to cyanide, and the anger at big corporations, and given the location of the poisonings near his parents house makes complete sense that he would be a suspect, a big suspect.

The pic of the guy watching a person buy poisoned Tylenol looking like Ted is also a serious WTF.

suspect_comps.jpg
 
What in the actual fuck @Cubo de Sangre I'm just now getting to the part that explains why that math graph is part of the pic.

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He later obtained a PHD in mathematics from the University of Michigan. While there he solved a complex math problem that had baffled his professors. As a student, he had work published in top mathematics journals, including his thesis on the boundary functions of circles. One fellow graduate student stated he thought Kaczynski would likely go on to win a Nobel Prize in math. But after two years teaching as a tenure track professor at the University of California Berkeley from 1967 to 1969, Kaczynski left the school and left the field of mathematics. He had made few if any friends and had almost no contact with women. He wrote in his journal that he suffered from "acute sexual starvation."

3 things here.

1. He was into the boundary function of circles, the symbols used by the killers involved circles.
2. He taught at Cal Berkeley from 1967-69. The Zodiac killings centered around cal Berkeley from 1968-69.
3. He the first incel? He suffered from "acute sexual starvation"

Mind blown again.
 
That is just crazy. Why if he's finally caught would he want to not give the big reveal? Seems like he would want to say I'm the greatest of all time, I'm all 3 of these killers but maybe his motivations are foreign to me.

The theory is that as the Unabomber Ted evolved into something he sees as a champion of the environment and a hero for eco-terrorists. Therefore he wouldn't want to sully that status by being associated with crimes driven by sexual frustration (Zodiac) or causing the death of a child (first Tylenol victim was 12).

I haven't confirmed this by viewing source material, but seems legit.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ynski-dr-sally-johnson-paranoid-schizophrenia

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...da45935/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.70815e3622be

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=1411

In the summer of 1966, most likely late August/early September 1966, Ted Kaczynski records a break through moment in his life. He is a genius, yet socially alienated and isolated. He decribes hearing the sound of couples having sex in the apartment next door to his, and he says it fills him with frustration and anger. Out of despair and self described "acute sexual starvation", he records in his journal that instead of killing himself he will "really kill everyone I hate."

The people he says he hates and wants to kill are many, but they include two distinct groups. One group is what he calls "bigshots" or "government officials", and these include "scientists", "big businessmen", "politicians" and "police".

The other group of people he hated and wanted to kill included love making "couples", "rowdy college students" and those college men and women he deems "promiscuous". He calls promiscuous women "animals" and "pigs".Look at the government psychiatric report on Kaczynski done after he was arrested for the Unabomber crimes:

In the summer after his fourth year [of graduate school, the summer of 1966], he describes experiencing a period of several weeks where he was sexually excited nearly all the time and was fantasizing himself as a woman and being unable to obtain any sexual relief. He decided to make an effort to have a sex change operation. When he returned to the University of Michigan [most likely in late August or early September 1966] he made an appointment to see a psychiatrist to be examined to determine if the sex change would be good for him. He claimed that by putting on an act he could con the psychiatrist into thinking him suitable for a feminine role even though his motive was exclusively erotic. As he was sitting in the waiting room, he turned completely against the idea of the operation and thus, when he saw the doctor, instead claimed he was depressed about the possibility of being drafted. He describes the following:

"As I walked away from the building afterwards, I felt disgusted about what my uncontrolled sexual cravings had almost led me to do and I felt humiliated, and I violently hated the psychiatrist. Just then there came a major turning point in my life. Like a Phoenix, I burst from the ashes of my despair to a glorious new hope. I thought I wanted to kill that psychiatrist because the future looked utterly empty to me. I felt I wouldn't care if I died. And so I said to myself why not really kill the psychiatrist and anyone else whom I hate. What is important is not the words that ran through my mind but the way I felt about them. What was entirely new was the fact that I really felt I could kill someone. My very hopelessness had liberated me because I no longer cared about death. I no longer cared about consequences and I said to myself that I really could break out of my rut in life an do things that weredaring, irresponsible or criminal." [Psych Report] {Emphasis added}
 

Ted Kaczynski said this of an interaction with a psychologist at University of Michigan.

He said he recalled setting up an appointment at the University of Michigan's health center after weeks of fantasizing about becoming a female. By the time of his consultation, however, he lost his nerve and lied to the psychiatrist. Leaving the building in shame, Kaczynski said, he developed a violent hatred for the psychiatrist.

"Just then there came a major turning point in my life," Kaczynski said. "Like a Phoenix, I burst from the ashes of my despair to a glorious new hope. I thought I wanted to kill that psychiatrist because the future looked utterly empty to me."

"What was entirely new," Kaczynski concluded, "was the fact that I really felt I could kill someone."


I looked up when Ted attended University of Michigan, because he also attended Harvard and Cal Berkley. It says Ted attended University of Michigan from 1965-67. When did the Zodiac do all his killings? 1968-69. When did Ted attend Cal Berkeley, the epicenter of the Zodiac killings? 1967-69.


This hood was found in Ted's cabin upon arrest.

kaczyn40.jpg



Who else had a homemade hood?


zodiac-serial-murders-the-phantom-killer.jpg


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I looked up when Ted attended University of Michigan, because he also attended Harvard and Cal Berkley. It says Ted attended University of Michigan from 1965-67. When did the Zodiac do all his killings? 1968-69. When did Ted attend Cal Berkeley, the epicenter of the Zodiac killings? 1967-69.

http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14

As of the present time, no hard evidence exists to place Kaczynski in Riverside, California, during the dates surrounding the murder of Cheri Jo Bates. But while Kaczynski cannot be placed anywhere else during the times in question, there is some minor evidence to suggest his presence in California late in 1966. He certainly applied for a position at UC Berkeley during that time period, as indicated by the faculty bio that accompanied his application. According to his faculty advisor, Kaczynski had finished all of the coursework requisite for his doctoral degree prior to the beginning of the 1966 school term (his fifth and final year at the University of Michigan) and by that time had decided to use a previously-published mathematical paper as the basis for his dissertation. Therefore, although still technically a student, Kaczynski had essentially no need to be on campus at the University of Michigan for the entire 1966-1967 school year. This would have left him completely free to go wherever he liked, even for extended periods of time. One possibility is that he spent some time canvassing the various campuses of the UC system, among which would have been UC Riverside. That campus is less than three miles from Riverside Community College, where Cheri Jo Bates was killed.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=938

Could the known code expert, bomb designer and cold blooded murderer Theodore Kaczynski have been the Zodiac, who shared all those same qualities and traits? Kaczynski taught at U Cal Berkeley from 1967 to 1969, a position for which he interviewed in the Fall/Winter of 1966. So he was in the SF Bay area for all the key dates of Zodiac activity. In all the public records, there are no conflicts between Kaczynski and known Zodiac murder and mailing dates. An attorney for Kaczynski said that no ailibi's could be presented for any of the Zodiac murder and mailing dates between 1966 and 1974. A witness has placed Kaczynski at the scene of the East Coast Zodiac type knife murder of fellow U of M grad Betsy Aardsma in the Penn State University library on November 28, 1969.
 
What's interesting in the film is that Graysmith got Toschi talking to him again about Allen because his birthday (Dec. 18) is when supposedly Melvin Belli got the phone call from Zodiac at his house (that the maid answered). Here's where some credibility is lost with Graysmith. That call did not occur on that date and it was debunked as being the same mental patient (Sam) that phoned Belli and talked to him on tv. There was a letter sent that was definitely from Zodiac (it had a piece of bloody shirt in it) that was published in the papers. It's believed the call came after that, sometime in the middle of January.

Knowing that, I kinda wish it were omitted from the film. But it fucks with the narrative.
 
Oh man, you MF'er. This rabbit hole is deep. I have to go buy some wine for my wife but when I get back I want to post something about this entire situation.


I had zero interest even in the Unabomber until somebody tipped me off to this shit like six years ago or so. Having a keen interest in Zodiac, it made my head explode! Oh yeah, also in Ted's cabin.

unabomber_07.jpg


Makes me question the validity of ruling Allen in on shoe size. As for glove size, don't know why Z would leave gloves in the cab. And if he was wearing them should't some DNA be in there? Could be another way of throwing off the police. Ted went to great lengths to disguise himself as Unabomber.
 
There was a change in ideology somewhere along the line and the F.B.I. and local police stopped talking about them. The only time you really hear about one is if he's captured. The original Night Stalker most recently, who was killing from 1974-86, and before him BTK who did most of his killing in the 70's and 80's, both captured. We knew about them because they were killing back when this stuff was on the nightly news. Now, not so much. Either the police are telling them not to run stories on serial killers for certain cases or the murders are being kept under the rug so that the local news isn't fast enough to catch up to a crime scene. There are most certainly dozens of active serial killers in America alone, this according to the F.B.I., but I can't tell you the last time I heard a public warning about one.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/27/the-serial-killer-detector/amp

The F.B.I. believes that less than one per cent of the killings each year are carried out by serial killers, but Hargrove thinks that the percentage is higher, and that there are probably around two thousand serial killers at large in the U.S. “How do I know?” he said. “A few years ago, I got some people at the F.B.I. to run the question of how many murders in their records are unsolved but have been linked through DNA.” The answer was about fourteen hundred, slightly more than two per cent of the murders in the files they consulted. “Those are just the cases they were able to lock down with DNA,” Hargrove said. “And killers don’t always leave DNA—it’s a gift when you get it. So two per cent is a floor, not a ceiling.”
 
I had zero interest even in the Unabomber until somebody tipped me off to this shit like six years ago or so. Having a keen interest in Zodiac, it made my head explode! Oh yeah, also in Ted's cabin.

unabomber_07.jpg


Makes me question the validity of ruling Allen in on shoe size. As for glove size, don't know why Z would leave gloves in the cab. And if he was wearing them should't some DNA be in there? Could be another way of throwing off the police. Ted went to great lengths to disguise himself as Unabomber.

Sooo, basically I thought I was looking at two different sized shoes but that isn't the case. its a smaller soul attached to a larger shoe so that the wearer leaves a print a different size than his actual foot. What is crazy about this is the timeline of events fits almost perfectly together between the 3 killers, Zodiac, Tylenol, and Unabomber.

Here are some of the things that bug me.

1. Ted Kaczynski is not just genius level, which is I.Q. 140, he is considered an extreme genius with an I.Q. of 167. This is Einstein level genius.

2. He skips from grade 5 to 7, which he claims stunts his social awareness, and he attends Harvard at age 16. He is a math prodigy who is able to solve equations that his professors at Harvard can't.

3. For his master's degree he attends University of Michigan from 1965-67. While there he has an incident with a psychiatrist that he later tells authorities was when he decided he "could really kill someone."

4. Ted then is an associate professor at Cal Berkeley from 1968-69. The Zodiac killings were 1968-69. Ted then suddenly leaves Berkley in 1969, which would make sense if the heat was on and he was in fact the Zodiac killer. 3 of the 4 Zodiac ciphers are never solved. Ted was a super genius 167 I.Q. villain. gott-damn.

While at Berkeley in 1968-69, the Zodiac killings look to be at the center of the killings when mapped out, and the exact years Ted was at Berkeley.

tumblr_p3rotjMgjs1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg


5. Ted then moves to the mountain shack but for some period of years he still goes in to Chicago to work.

He spent most of the next two years traveling and looking for land, eventually buying property in Lincoln, Montana in 1971. For the first few years he would often spend winters and other short periods elsewhere, including living and working in the Chicago area in 1978 and 1979, but this cabin would be his primary residence for the next 25 years.

6. May 25th, 1978 is the first instance of the Unabomber when a bomb is placed on the University of Chicago.

7. The Tylenol murders then happen around Chicago in 1982. Ted is in the area, he has been working in the area, and his parents live in the area at that time. In fact, his parents house is the epicenter of the Tylenol murders, the same as Berkeley was the epicenter of the Zodiac killings. Shown on the map below, now only is his parents house the center of the killings, but the locations somehow, inexplicably mirror the Zodiac killings.

tumblr_p3rot4K3ap1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg


8. When the Unabomber is captured, in his cabin, again inexplicably, is a homemade mask that looks like what the Zodiac killer wore. This is significant because nobody else ever wore a mask like that that I know of.

kaczyn40.jpg


zodiac-serial-murders-the-phantom-killer.jpg


9. This is only timeline, it does not take into account his psychological evaluation and also his personal journals, which also appear to be pretty damning.

10. He was a math genius and his doctorate work was on the boundary function of circles. The killers used circles as their symbol.

file.php


Am I understanding this correctly? Its crazy how Ted is at the "scene of the crime" during all these uncaptured killer scenarios. He is absolutely in the dead center of all 3 serial killing personas. If this is true it shows that he was smarter than his pursuers, smarter than the police and the F.B.I.. His 167 I.Q. used for evil. It explains the ciphers never being solved, that is incredibly Ted.
 

Damn, that is a good article. This seems like a situation where the sheriff doesn't want people thinking he isn't doing a good job so he gives the ole, there ain't no such thing as serial killers in my district. This is exactly what I was saying about the authorities not telling the people anymore when a serial killer is active in their area.

In August of 2010, Hargrove noticed a pattern of murders in Lake County, Indiana, which includes the city of Gary. Between 1980 and 2008, fifteen women had been strangled. Many of the bodies had been found in vacant houses. Hargrove wrote to the Gary police, describing the murders and including a spreadsheet of their circumstances. “Could these cases reflect the activity of one or more serial killers in your area?” he asked.


The police department rebuffed him; a lieutenant replied that there were no unsolved serial killings in Gary. (The Department of Justice advises police departments to tell citizens when a serial killer is at large, but some places keep the information secret.) Hargrove was indignant. “I left messages for months,” he said. “I sent registered letters to the chief of police and the mayor.” Eventually, he heard from a deputy coroner, who had also started to suspect that there was a serial killer in Gary. She had tried to speak with the police, but they had refused her. After reviewing Hargrove’s cases, she added three more victims to his list.


I also find this interesting. Its a rudimentary classification system for various types of killers. I was talking about Michael Stone's scale of 1-22 on the show Most Evil earlier in this thread. There are definitely different types of killers, they aren't all the same.

They divide into types. Those who feel bound to rid the world of people they regard as immoral or undesirable—such as drug addicts, immigrants, or promiscuous women—are called missionaries. Black widows kill men, usually to inherit money or to claim insurance; bluebeards kill women, either for money or as an assertion of power. A nurse who kills patients is called an angel of death. A troller meets a victim by chance, and a trapper either observes his victims or works at a place, such as a hospital, where his victims come to him.
 
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