SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 110: Zodiac

[Cubo de Sangre]

What in the actual fuck.

• Ted Kaczynski, a domestic terrorist known as the Unabomber was a subject of MKULTRA. As a sophomore at Harvard, Kaczynski participated in a study described by author Alton Chase as a "purposely brutalizing psychological experiment", led by Harvard psychologist Henry Murray.[89][90] In total, Kaczynski spent 200 hours as part of the study.[91]

Well that just tears it. That takes the story next level because MKULTRA now ties government mind control to the entire thing. What did they do, make some sort of Manchurian candidate out of Ted?

lol.

 

[MusterX]

lol.

The entire story is crazy. The dots connect but its just so convoluted and it falls outside the annals of crime because it takes "internet sleuths" to try to put it together. I wouldn't even attempt to explain it to someone because it would take a 4000 word post to give out all the details. Its one of those things that I know now but will never likely be able to discuss it with anyone lol. They would just be like, "wut?"

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

The entire story is crazy. The dots connect but its just so convoluted and it falls outside the annals of crime because it takes "internet sleuths" to try to put it together. I wouldn't even attempt to explain it to someone because it would take a 4000 word post to give out all the details. Its one of those things that I know now but will never likely be able to discuss it with anyone lol. They would just be like, "wut?"

As we saw in Zodiac, the investigation was hampered by being multi-jurisdictional (i.e. fragmented evidence). It to a fucking newspaper cartoonist to put it all together and scribe a book (a couple decades after the fact). And homie didn't even have the internet. He was beating on the police station door after hours in order to get shit done. Plus, he somehow still has as credible of a solution to the 340 cipher as anyone.

But yeah, it's not something to be summed up in a paragraph. Entertaining as fuck though for a true crime story. The only element missing is the love story, but the lack of it is the prime motive.

 

[europe1]

Sadly, I think I am no longer able to enjoy watching brutality and sick human behavior play out in a movie. I am way to empathetic now that I have a little girl.

See people, this is exactly what happens when you change main-character mid-season!

Honestly, though, good on you bro.

how do you let that Leigh guy go without even arresting him?

It's not like they could keep him for any significant period of time anyways -- without anything that isn't circumstantial and all that. Plus, if they did arrest him, he might have done something drastic.

(something about Chloe is incredibly sexy while at the same time approachable and kind of plain. I love it.),

and I honestly don't think I've ever been this captivated by a movie.

Strong words, Coolthulu, Strong words.

So is this like in your Top 10 of all time now or something?

 

[Clippy]

MARK RUFFALO!?!?!?!

 

[Clippy]

Mark ruffalo chips

 

[Coolthulu]

@Clippy

 

[Coolthulu]

See people, this is exactly what happens when you change main-character mid-season!

Honestly, though, good on you bro.



It's not like they could keep him for any significant period of time anyways -- without anything that isn't circumstantial and all that. Plus, if they did arrest him, he might have done something drastic.









Strong words, Coolthulu, Strong words.

So is this like in your Top 10 of all time now or something?

 

[sickc0d3r]

See people, this is exactly what happens when you change main-character mid-season!

Honestly, though, good on you bro.

It's not like I'm happy about it. Any kind of personal growth really irritates me.

 

[Tufts]

Depraved not compared to normal people but compared to other serial killers. Zodiac was very low on the scale comparatively. Dahmer would have had sex with the dead body then cooked it and ate it. A scale had to be created to try to evaluate these guys because they are so different in their methods and motivations. A spree killer is not the same as a jealous killer and a jealous killer is not the same as a torture killer.

Zodiac I don't think liked the stabbing. The reason I say that is because its the only one he did. He shot everyone else. He may have been just trying it out to see what it was like and then decided, nah, I'm going to use my gun. Also, I think it was @the muntjac that was talking about the possibility of the "baby out the window" line being a fabrication.

Makes sense. I had not thought of it that way. Yikes!

The stabbing is so much more personal. I would think it would take a pretty specific desire to drive you to want to do that. I saw the theory about the lady. It sure was chilling in the movie though. If she made it up, she must be feeling pretty proud of herself LOL

 

[Tufts]

Some police partners are like husband and wife. They aren't having sex but everything else is similar. They argue and fight, they do each other favors, they do things for the other they might not want to do, they defend the other with their life, and who is the only person who can call you at 3a.m.? It better be my wife or my partner. Trust me, there is a cop out there right now "asking for animal crackers."

This is a damn educational movie club. I did not put this together, even though I've read a million and a half cop books and have seen all the behavior you mentioned. Makes total sense, really.

 

[MusterX]

Makes sense. I had not thought of it that way. Yikes!

The stabbing is so much more personal. I would think it would take a pretty specific desire to drive you to want to do that. I saw the theory about the lady. It sure was chilling in the movie though. If she made it up, she must be feeling pretty proud of herself LOL

Well you know how some people are. The police have always had to deal with people that will actually confess to crimes they didn't commit just for the attention. You would think if a guy confesses to a murder you have your man but that isn't always the case. So its quiet possible she made up some stuff because she liked the attention. Its difficult to say.

 

[Tufts]

Hand writing analysis is not reliable. Its still used but not as the basis to convict someone in court, there has to be more than just hand writing similarities. I think the forensic detective work in the 1960's was not at the level it is today and some of the things in the Zodiac would make a real detective cringe.

The forensic work made me cringe! Considering the Scheffer case of 1902 was the first case of the identification, arrest and conviction of a murderer based upon fingerprint evidence, they should have known not to be so cavalier in the way they handled the guns etc and other evidence at the scene. That made no sense to me.

 

[MusterX]

The forensic work made me cringe! Considering the Scheffer case of 1902 was the first case of the identification, arrest and conviction of a murderer based upon fingerprint evidence, they should have known not to be so cavalier in the way they handled the guns etc and other evidence at the scene. That made no sense to me.

Yea I noticed it too and I don't know if it was on purpose in the film or not or if it was that way in real life or not. I was thinking damn I'm a better detective than you and I'm not even a detective lol.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Yea I noticed it too and I don't know if it was on purpose in the film or not or if it was that way in real life or not.

City pigs. What can you do?

Spoiler

 

[Tufts]

I wonder if there have been any studies that corrolate violence with intelligence? We've discussed high intelligence and violence, but in general, is there a corrolation of stupid people with violence? I guess they would be more likely to get caught and subsequently studied. LOL

 

[Tufts]

City pigs. What can you do?

Spoiler

So it seems to me like Zodiak was mostly interested in publicity. Which led me to wonder what he would have done in the world of social media we live in today. And after seeing the post (can't remember who wrote it) about how there were more serial killers out there than we realized, it made me wonder how there weren't more out there now using social media....at some point you think there would be another person craving attention from his depraved actions. We've only had that one Facebook Live killing of that one poor old mad. Could you imagine if Zodiac had access to Facebook Live. Holy Shit!

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I wonder if there have been any studies that corrolate violence with intelligence? We've discussed high intelligence and violence, but in general, is there a corrolation of stupid people with violence? I guess they would be more likely to get caught and subsequently studied. LOL

Would imagine the population-size of dumb criminals vs. smart criminals (available for study) would be heavily skewed.

 

[MusterX]

City pigs. What can you do?

Spoiler

That letter is weird to me because how did Zodiac have the presence of mind to know that someday society would make movies about serial killers? I don't think there was very many of those in 1969 when he was doing his thing. In so many ways it seems Zodiac was not your run of the mill dumb ass. He's thinking of movies about him during a time when that wouldn't be something a person thought about. I mean this is way before internet, and social media, and everyone having 24/7 news cycles. Its just strange to me that a cold blooded killer is talking about movies.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

So it seems to me like Zodiak was mostly interested in publicity. Which led me to wonder what he would have done in the world of social media we live in today. And after seeing the post (can't remember who wrote it) about how there were more serial killers out there than we realized, it made me wonder how there weren't more out there now using social media....at some point you think there would be another person craving attention from his depraved actions. We've only had that one Facebook Live killing of that one poor old mad. Could you imagine if Zodiac had access to Facebook Live. Holy Shit!

Sounds like we should be watching Natural Born Killers next.