SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 110: Zodiac

[Coolthulu]

A tad off topic, but Mindhunter on Netflix is great as well. Produced/Directed by Fincher and has a similar vibe to Zodiac.

The guy that plays Ed Kemper is phenomenal.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That letter is weird to me because how did Zodiac have the presence of mind to know that someday society would make movies about serial killers? I don't think there was very many of those in 1969 when he was doing his thing. In so many ways it seems Zodiac was not your run of the mill dumb ass. He's thinking of movies about him during a time when that wouldn't be something a person thought about. I mean this is way before internet, and social media, and everyone having 24/7 news cycles. Its just strange to me that a cold blooded killer is talking about movies.

Good point. Delusions of grandeur? Attention whore? Either way, he was thinking big picture.

 

[Tufts]

Could have just been exaggeration or an outright fabrication. There is a mental illness where people seek attention in bizarre ways. Its kinda like how many serial killers will have say 20 confirmed killed but will claim to kill 70. They want to make it bigger than it actually is.

So many layers of lying....Baby mamma maybe lies about what happened to her, for attention, and then Zodiak maybe lies about being the one to have done it, for attention, when maybe none of it happened....and did she lie with him in mind, which just makes it creepier that he would then take credit for it!!!! Seems like a dangerous thing to do on her part.....I woulda been scared shitless if I made that up and then ole boy says it was him! They are the only two (and maybe the guy who actually picked her up) who know if its true. LOL

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

So many layers of lying....Baby mamma maybe lies about what happened to her, for attention, and then Zodiak maybe lies about being the one to have done it, for attention, when maybe none of it happened....and did she lie with him in mind, which just makes it creepier that he would then take credit for it!!!! Seems like a dangerous thing to do on her part.....I woulda been scared shitless if I made that up and then ole boy says it was him! They are the only two (and maybe the guy who actually picked her up) who know if its true. LOL

4-D chess up in this motherfucker.

 

[Tufts]

Makes me question the validity of ruling Allen in on shoe size. As for glove size, don't know why Z would leave gloves in the cab. And if he was wearing them should't some DNA be in there? Could be another way of throwing off the police. Ted went to great lengths to disguise himself as Unabomber.

Wow! While this is a totally logical thing to do, this blows my mind and creeps me the fuck out! Lifting jaw up to face!

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Wow! While this is a totally logical thing to do, this blows my mind and creeps me the fuck out! Lifting jaw up to face!

Ted's IQ = 167. He's like pro sports compared to all of us playing high school or lower.

 

[Tufts]

Here's a potential dry-run close to home.





It's impossible to deny those connections between the three cases. I have a hard time believing that if you took any other high-profile serial killing you'd be able to produce a similar pattern. So yeah, signature vs. M.O.

 

[Tufts]

Sadly, I think I am no longer able to enjoy watching brutality and sick human behavior play out in a movie. I am way to empathetic now that I have a little girl. I can't resist imagining her innocent little mind eventually learning how awful we are capable of treating each other. It sucks because I grew up loving slasher flicks and horror.

I still enjoy violence, just not innocent victims getting repeatedly stabbed as they stare into the camera.

It's to the point that I almost bailed on the movie during the scene in the car with the woman and her baby. Anything happened to that baby and I would've been done.

Same I am a teacher and the more I see my kids getting hurt by the world, the harder it is to expose myself to the violence in the form of entertainment. I definitely struggled with the two scenes you mentioned. My cousin recently made an independent film (based on her original play and with her in the main role) that was very violent. I have been working myself up to watching it. I wonder if knowing that she is ok and happy that I am watching the film will make it easier to watch (coz I so clearly know it is fiction) but still....I'm considering nominating it for Battle Royale....LOL.Then if it wins, I'll have to watch it. Sorry in advance if it wins

 

[europe1]

I don't think there was very many of those in 1969 when he was doing his thing.

Well... the very concept of a serial killer was a very recent invention. So they couldn't have made many movies about serial killers, because serial killers didn't even exist as a discernible thing in the public consciousness before then.

However, consider Dirty Harry from 1971. The antagonist in that film -- Scorpio -- is based on serial killers. Serial killers were all the buzz back then -- very much a fashionable thing that was in the limelights. So I suppose it would seem inevitable that Hollywood would start cranking out movies about them. Plus, what attention-seeking looney doesn't want a film made about them?

That said, there were films made before 1969 that featured serial killers. They just weren't referred to as serial killers, since that word hadn't been invented yet, they were just referred to as murderers or monsters. Take M or Psycho as two examples.

Then if it wins, I'll have to watch it. Sorry in advance if it wins

Remember, that it has to be a film that all of us can acquire and actually see. There was one week were a film won that was so rare that only a single club-member managed to actually procure a copy. (good old chickenluver with his black-belt film-hunting skills)

 

[the muntjac]

However, consider Dirty Harry from 1971. The antagonist in that film -- Scorpio -- is based on serial killers.

It was based specifically on the Zodiac. The scene in Zodiac where Toschi (Ruffalo) is waiting outside the screening of Dirty Harry, when the audience starts letting out, one guy stops and says to him, “Dave, that Harry Callahan did a hell of a job closing your case.” Toschi replies, “Good thing he didn’t let due process get in the way, huh?” Ya know, because Clint blows Scorpio away with his .44 magnum.

The guy who plays Scorpio in that did a real good job at playing a nut.

 

[MusterX]

Well... the very concept of a serial killer was a very recent invention. So they couldn't have made many movies about serial killers, because serial killers didn't even exist as a discernible thing in the public consciousness before then.

However, consider Dirty Harry from 1971. The antagonist in that film -- Scorpio -- is based on serial killers. Serial killers were all the buzz back then -- very much a fashionable thing that was in the limelights. So I suppose it would seem inevitable that Hollywood would start cranking out movies about them. Plus, what attention-seeking looney doesn't want a film made about them?

That said, there were films made before 1969 that featured serial killers. They just weren't referred to as serial killers, since that word hadn't been invented yet, they were just referred to as murderers or monsters. Take M or Psycho as two examples.



Remember, that it has to be a film that all of us can acquire and actually see. There was one week were a film won that was so rare that only a single club-member managed to actually procure a copy. (good old chickenluver with his black-belt film-hunting skills)

Zodiac was a movie buff, and possibly the first troll. Why else would he be asking about movies and movie stars that might play him in said movie? Of all the things you could say to the authorities, you pick film? He had to have been someone that liked going to the movies. That or he was trolling. His tweets were hand written messages to the cops and he doesn't give a shit about movies or anything else and he's just trolling the cops.

That also fits with the methods of Kaczynski in a strange way because Ted did all sorts of things to throw off the authorities. For example he would put initials on his bomb, random initials of nobody he knew, and then the F.B.I. would waste man-hours trying to figure out whose initials they were. Ted did all sorts of things like that and it made it so they never could catch him. I'm telling you it was pure stroke of lightning luck is the only reason they ever caught him. Well, talking to the authorities about movies sounds like something ole Ted would do.

 

[MusterX]

Ted's IQ = 167. He's like pro sports compared to all of us playing high school or lower.

I was looking through people that have high I.Q.'s and its really a mysterious element of the human mind. Ted was looking all scraggly like a street bum and you would never guess he was Einstein level I.Q.

A few that surprised me.

Sharon Stone I.Q. 154

Quentin Tarentino I.Q. 160

James Woods I.Q. 184

That would put Woods at one of the smartest people on the planet. How did that happen?

 

[europe1]

That would put Woods at one of the smartest people on the planet. How did that happen?

I think the most natural conclusion at this point is to question the validity of those IQ tests. I highly doubt any of those actors have the math skills to sit around and work on string theory on their day off. 184 in IQ is so outrageously high that is almost certainly has to be false.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I was looking through people that have high I.Q.'s and its really a mysterious element of the human mind. Ted was looking all scraggly like a street bum and you would never guess he was Einstein level I.Q.

A few that surprised me.

Sharon Stone I.Q. 154

Quentin Tarentino I.Q. 160

James Woods I.Q. 184

That would put Woods at one of the smartest people on the planet. How did that happen?

I've heard about Woods being off the hook smart. Didn't know that about Stone or QT. It'd probably be a bit of a curse. Unless you liked dummies!

All the sudden I want the club to review Salvador.

 

[MusterX]

I think the most natural conclusion at this point is to question the validity of those IQ tests. I highly doubt any of those actors have the math skills to sit around and work on string theory on their day off. 184 in IQ is so outrageously high that is almost certainly has to be false.

Yea, I don't know about that. High I.Q. is no guarantee you will do anything with it. Woods scored almost a perfect score on the S.A.T., a perfect 800 on the verbal and a 779 on the math giving him a 1579/1600. Its a crazy score man. It got him a scholarship to M.I.T. where he dropped out in 1969 to pursue acting. Weird that number keeps coming up, that is the year Zodiac was wrapping up his killings. Woods was mathematically gifted and considered an "extraordinary" genius, which is anything over 160. Like I said though, that doesn't mean you are going to change the world, you could be a super genius and just be a drunk. BTW, Woods gifts extended to math, they say he was taking Linear Algebra at U.C.L.A. when he was still in High School. If he had dedicated his life to math rather than acting, he would have been discussing string theory almost assuredly.

 

[europe1]

Yea, I don't know about that. High I.Q. is no guarantee you will do anything with it. Woods scored almost a perfect score on the S.A.T., a perfect 800 on the verbal and a 779 on the math giving him a 1579/1600. Its a crazy score man. It got him a scholarship to M.I.T.

Normal IQ tests even max out at 160 points. Meaning he must have received some sort of special test to even reach such a high number of 184. One in over 20 million even gets 180 or above, meaning there are only 15 people in the USA that has a number over 180, statistically speaking. A score of 184 would make Woods something like the top 15 highest IQ people in all of the USA. With is utterly insane since he didn't even have any higher education in maths at the point he purportedly did that.

Eh, not convinced until I see a report. The number is simply too high. From some short googling, the number seems unsubstantiated.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/28536/does-james-woods-have-an-iq-of-180

 

[MusterX]

I've heard about Woods being off the hook smart. Didn't know that about Stone or QT. It'd probably be a bit of a curse. Unless you liked dummies!

All the sudden I want the club to review Salvador.

Well, I mean, you would be guaranteed to be either be the smartest in the relationship or equal to your really smart partner. Some really smart people want to be the smarter in the relationship and will be with someone that is obviously not as smart as they are. Gives them an edge. Sometimes it could be a curse because people don't want to be in a relationship with someone who is too smart, its hard to even have meaningful conversations and trust me, you don't want Sharon Stone going psycho on you, I've seen her movies bruh, it ain't pretty.

I've never seen Salvador, I had to look that up because I couldn't even remember the film.

 

[MusterX]

Normal IQ tests even max out at 162 points. Meaning he must have received some sort of special test to even reach such a high number of 184. One in over 20 million even get 160 or above, meaning there is only 15 people in the USA that has a number over 160, statistically speaking. A score of 184 would make Woods something like the top 5 highest IQ people in all of the USA. With is utterly insane since he didn't even have any higher education in maths at the point he purportedly did that.

Eh, not convinced until I see a report. The number is simply too high. From some short googling, the number seems unsubstantiated.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/28536/does-james-woods-have-an-iq-of-180

Obviously I don't know his life story but I do know his 1579 on the S.A.T. is insane level and he had a free ride scholarship to M.I.T. Its probably safe to say he was genius level even if we can't pinpoint the exact number.

 

[europe1]

Its probably safe to say he was genius level even if we can't pinpoint the exact number.

Isn't that sort of suspicious though?

I mean, if you entered the Top 15 highest IQ in the USA list (with absolutely no education in such lofty mathematical matters, which is even rarer) then wouldn't you present some sort of proof of that? Even if he only scored 160 or 150 or 140, that's still superbly high and extremely rare and would be in need of verifying.

The fact that we can't source this debilitates his legitimacy. There are way to many red flags fluttering in the breeze.

Also, I meant to say 180 IQ in that post, not 160.

 

[MusterX]

Isn't that sort of suspicious though?

I mean, if you entered the Top 15 highest IQ in the USA list (with absolutely no education in such lofty mathematical matters, which is even rarer) then wouldn't you present some sort of proof of that? Even if he only scored 160 or 150 or 140, that's still superbly high and extremely rare.

The fact that we can't source this debilitates his legitimacy. There are way to many red flags fluttering in the breeze.

Also, I meant to say 180 IQ in that post, not 160.

He's an actor, who's he going to prove it to and why? Its his 1579 on the S.A.T. scholarship to M.I.T. that impresses me and that is a matter of record. You have to understand that a 1579 on the S.A.T. puts you in rare company because its ranked in percentile, meaning that you are compared to everyone else that took the test. The average score on the S.A.T. in any given year is around, meaning the 50th percentile is around 1040-1050. Woods scored a 1579. How good is that? Percentile wise, the top 3 percentiles for the year 2017 were as follows.

A 1510 puts you in the 99th percentile, meaning you scores higher than 99% of the entire nation.
A 1550 puts you in 99+ percentile, somewhere less than 1% of people score here.
Woods is here with a 1579
A 1600 is a perfect score, this generally happens only about once per decade even though its given to tens of thousands of people per year.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/what-is-a-good-sat-score-a-bad-sat-score-an-excellent-sat-score

What I'm saying is, regular folks don't generally score a 1579. It means in the entire country with all the brainiacs taking the test, he beat pretty much all of them. Maybe he doesn't have a 180 I.Q. but I'm telling you, he's over 140 man.