SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 115: Cockneys vs. Zombies

[Yotsuya]

Also, The World's End > Shaun Of The Dead.

Hot Fuzz was also much better than Shaun.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Hot Fuzz was also much better than Shaun.

What?? The worlds end was watchable i suppose, hot fuzz is very good indeed but Shaun of the dead is a classic.

 

[Yotsuya]

What?? The worlds end was watchable i suppose, hot fuzz is very good indeed but Shaun of the dead is a classic.

Some classics just suck.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Some classics just suck.

I'm rustled....

 

[the muntjac]

Some classics just suck.

I'm curious, what didn't you like about Shaun of the Dead?

I really like all of the movies in the Cornetto trilogy. Shaun was a perfect blend of comedy and horror. It made you laugh while still instilling tension because the characters were good, and the threat of the zombies was treated with respect by at least giving them a menacing presence since the characters actually feared them. With Cockneys Vs Zombies, all the characters were way too casual in the face of their threat, which made the zombies boring. They were there to be nothing more than fodder for the humans' amped-up "bad ass" moments and corny one-liners. CvsZ felt like a movie where the writers came up with a few set-piece ideas first, such as old folks fighting off zombies and a guy with a steel-plate head, but then they had to fit a story around these ideas, which then fell flat. Shaun of the Dead had a better arc, chock-full of little details, fantastic camera work (Edgar Wright is awesome), and some heart to it.

I'm not trying to suggest that you are saying that Cockneys Vs Zombies was a better movie. I was just using it as a comparison between the two.

 

[Yotsuya]

I'm curious, what didn't you like about Shaun of the Dead?

I really like all of the movies in the Cornetto trilogy. Shaun was a perfect blend of comedy and horror. It made you laugh while still instilling tension because the characters were good, and the threat of the zombies was treated with respect by at least giving them a menacing presence since the characters actually feared them. With Cockneys Vs Zombies, all the characters were way too casual in the face of their threat, which made the zombies boring. They were there to be nothing more than fodder for the humans' amped-up "bad ass" moments and corny one-liners. CvsZ felt like a movie where the writers came up with a few set-piece ideas first, such as old folks fighting off zombies and a guy with a steel-plate head, but then they had to fit a story around these ideas, which then fell flat. Shaun of the Dead had a better arc, chock-full of little details, fantastic camera work (Edgar Wright is awesome), and some heart to it.

I'm not trying to suggest that you are saying that Cockneys Vs Zombies was a better movie. I was just using it as a comparison between the two.

At times Shaun was pretty good, but I remember, that there were some lame meta level name dropping and such that alienated me a bit from the characters/story ("Fulci's pizzeria", that weird moment between Dylan Moran and Tamsin Greig etc.) and so did the slapstick splatter. Ending in the pub dragged horribly. I was never big fan of Spaced so Shaun didn't have any extra appeal to me when it came out but I still had to endure all the hype. CvsZ was a zero pressure experience, which is always nice.

 

[the muntjac]

At times Shaun was pretty good, but I remember, that there were some lame meta level name dropping and such that alienated me a bit from the characters/story ("Fulci's pizzeria", that weird moment between Dylan Moran and Tamsin Greig etc.)

I had to look up why you thought it was weird for those two to be together in a scene, and I’ve learned they were on a show together. The other group that was similar to theirs purpose was to show that Shaun was actually making a bad decision going to the pub, and really he should have teamed up with this group because we see later that they fared better, while most people died in Shaun’s group. I saw this as a reference to how Ben and Mr. Cooper clashed heads in Night of the Living Dead, and had Ben just went with Mr. Cooper’s idea of hiding out in the basement, they would have all survived. Instead, it went the way it did. So the doppelgänger group in SOTD had a point for me, and if they wanted to throw in a little fan service for Black Books fans, then what’s the harm, eh?

On a side note, would you eat at Fulci’s Pizzeria? I feel the place would be all visual, no substance.

and so did the slapstick splatter. Ending in the pub dragged horribly. I was never big fan of Spaced so Shaun didn't have any extra appeal to me when it came out but I still had to endure all the hype. CvsZ was a zero pressure experience, which is always nice.

Well, I liked Spaced too. To each their own, chum.

 

[Yotsuya]

I had to look up why you thought it was weird for those two to be together in a scene, and I’ve learned they were on a show together. The other group that was similar to theirs purpose was to show that Shaun was actually making a bad decision going to the pub, and really he should have teamed up with this group because we see later that they fared better, while most people died in Shaun’s group. I saw this as a reference to how Ben and Mr. Cooper clashed heads in Night of the Living Dead, and had Ben just went with Mr. Cooper’s idea of hiding out in the basement, they would have all survived. Instead, it went the way it did. So the doppelgänger group in SOTD had a point for me, and if they wanted to throw in a little fan service for Black Books fans, then what’s the harm, eh?

I remember vaguely, that the doppelganger group was the best joke in the movie, but it got ruined a bit by Black Books inside joke. Winking at the spectator gets on my nerves a bit. It's alienating unless the genre is pure parody.

On a side note, would you eat at Fulci’s Pizzeria? I feel the place would be all visual, no substance.

Absolutely, I bet their recipes dating from late 60's to early 80's would be very tasty and of great variety, but still have a very distinguished touch of virtuosity. Within the price range of course.

Well, I liked Spaced too. To each their own, chum.

Hah, Black Books was and still is my early 2000's uk comedy favourite.

 

[Yotsuya]

I'm rustled....

Sorry about that, but calling movie a classic is not an argument either.

 

[the muntjac]

I remember vaguely, that the doppelganger group was the best joke in the movie, but it got ruined a bit by Black Books inside joke. Winking at the spectator gets on my nerves a bit. It's alienating unless the genre is pure parody.

I’m fine with it. I could see if Dylan Moran and Tamsin Greig did something that was a callback to Black Books, that would have been too on the nose, but their characters have no interaction with each other. Greig was just there to fill in for a body for the doppelgänger joke, and as an added bonus for fans, she was a little treat for the Black Books crowd.

Absolutely, I bet their recipes dating from late 60's to early 80's would be very tasty and of great variety, but still have a very distinguished touch of virtuosity. Within the price range of course.

You’d probably need an entire roll of paper towels to get through a pizza because it would be ultra messy.

Hah, Black Books was and still is my early 2000's uk comedy favourite.

I’ve never even heard of this show until now, but I’m intrigued. I wonder if it’s on any of these streaming apps.

 

[Yotsuya]

You’d probably need an entire roll of paper towels to get through a pizza because it would be ultra messy.

Sounds like you have not eaten that often at Fulci's. I recommend you to try out something like pizza sette notte in nero, pizza quattro dell'apocalisse or pizza operazione di Luna. Could broaden your horizons.

I’ve never even heard of this show until now, but I’m intrigued. I wonder if it’s on any of these streaming apps.

At least some of it is on YouTube.

 

[the muntjac]

Sounds like you have not eaten that often at Fulci's. I recommend you to try out something like pizza sette notte in nero, pizza quattro dell'apocalisse or pizza operazione di Luna. Could broaden your horizons.

I thank you for the recommendations. I’ve seen five of his films, and I’ve been ready to write him off. Sixth, seventh, or eighth time could be a charm.

 

[Yotsuya]

I thank you for the recommendations. I’ve seen five of his films, and I’ve been ready to write him off. Sixth, seventh, or eighth time could be a charm.

I'm just saying, that he's just not a messy director by nature. He's one of the very few auteurs among Italian horror directors and his characteristic traits have nothing to do with special effects. He gets unnecessarily shit from people who have just seen his 80's stuff.

 

[Nimrod]

Gonna watch this tonight .. Got it saved on my cable box..

Dont know nothing about it.. Other than bricktop from Snatch is on the cover .. I take it lots of facking cockney sweary you facking cant ..

 

[the muntjac]

I'm just saying, that he's just not a messy director by nature. He's one of the very few auteurs among Italian horror directors and his characteristic traits have nothing to do with special effects. He gets unnecessarily shit from people who have just seen his 80's stuff.

I mean, I wouldn’t exactly call it unnecessary. He did make those movies. Perhaps his pre-80s stuff is better, but I think it’s fair for someone to be critical of the 80s stuff. Some of George Romero’s work holds dear to my heart, but I can also admit he’s made his fair share of shit.

But I’ll give Fulci a fair shake by watching the ones you’ve suggested.

 

[Yotsuya]

I mean, I wouldn’t exactly call it unnecessary. He did make those movies. Perhaps his pre-80s stuff is better, but I think it’s fair for someone to be critical of the 80s stuff. Some of George Romero’s work holds dear to my heart, but I can also admit he’s made his fair share of shit.

But I’ll give Fulci a fair shake by watching the ones you’ve suggested.

I've just been countering your restaurant metaphor. You suggested that food would be somehow disgusting or messy at Fulci's while I'm saying that there's a wide variety to pick from. It's like going to Italian restaurant and ordering extra creamy pasta over and over again and complaining that the place serves only food with too many calories.

Ps. I love extra creamy pasta!

 

[the muntjac]

I've just been countering your restaurant metaphor. You suggested that food would be somehow disgusting or messy at Fulci's while I'm saying that there's a wide variety to pick from. It's like going to Italian restaurant and ordering extra creamy pasta over and over again and complaining that the place serves only food with too many calories.

Ps. I love extra creamy pasta!

Well, I watched his ones that garner the most attention, which I feel is the most natural thing to do when trying to check out a director’s work.

So if we’re going to stick to the analogy, it’s like hearing about a restaurant that people seem to like and they really talk up a few items there that seem interesting, so you go and try out those items and then think, “What? People like this? This sucks.” That’s when a nice chap stops you on the way out and suggests trying a few of the less discussed items on the menu.

Then this song comes on the jukebox.

 

[Yotsuya]

Well, I watched his ones that garner the most attention, which I feel is the most natural thing to do when trying to check out a director’s work.

So if we’re going to stick to the analogy, it’s like hearing about a restaurant that people seem to like and they really talk up a few items there that seem interesting, so you go and try out those items and then think, “What? People like this? This sucks.” That’s when a nice chap stops you on the way out and suggests trying a few of the less discussed items on the menu.

Then this song comes on the jukebox.

Heh, discussing the restaurant metaphor was a lot of fun and it is very easy to get one-sided impression of Fulci's work. Btw, I just picked the titles from Fulci's early production which I had seen and liked and which made somewhat believable pizza dishes. 002 operazione Luna is a solid 2.5/5 movie, but pizza la Luna was my favourite pizza at one point, so I could not resist using the name.

 

[Coolthulu]

You 'avin a fackin' tin bath? He's a raspberry ripple.

Way better than it had any right to be and Alan Ford just gets me in stitches every time.

 

[europe1]

As far as Zombie Comedies go that we've seen in the SMC: Cemetery Man > Cockneys vs Zombies

Seeing Alan Ford and Honor Blackman show up in this got a little peak out of me, I guess.

I think the barking deer said it best:

With Cockneys Vs Zombies, all the characters were way too casual in the face of their threat, which made the zombies boring. They were there to be nothing more than fodder for the humans' amped-up "bad ass" moments and corny one-liners.

It's just a bunch of people trying to act badass while slaughtering mooks. It isn't all that interesting a movie. Especially considering how oversaturated the zombie genre is.

At the beginning of the movie when the construction workers dig up the tomb stone it says sealed by King Charles

It's sort of amazing all the monsters that you can just dig up in London.

Dragons (Reign of Fire)

Alien Grasshoppers (Quatermass and the Pit)

And now Zombies

New York still got it beat with the Chuds though.

Also, why the fuck did Charles II not put a warning on that tomb? Kind of inconsiderate, don't you think? Typical monarchs not carrying about the common people.

One of my favorites exchanges in the movie was when grandad Ray was saying, "When I was your age I signed up to fight the fucking Nazi's. What are you two fighting, traffic?"

Considering the director is German, he missed a big opportunity for a morbid cameo there.

That would also explain the liberal amount of guns being brandished by everyone. Guns, in London? Clearly, the director is a foreigner!

With that said my favourite zombie film is pride and prejudice and zombies so what would i know??

I also love the cockney dialogue, it just works in cinema more than any other brittish accent, think snatch, lock stock etc.

Any other British accent? Even Connery-Scottish, or the Queen's English, or Scouse (which technically is a separate language but whatever), that's one bold statement, my friend.

I was hoping for a moment where they have to use the money to distract a horde of zombies by dumping it off a tall structure and letting it all float through the sky as the zombies grab and fight over it. If George A. Romero has taught me anything, zombies will react or flock to something that triggers their cognitive memory, so zombies would recognize money and feel the desire to pursue it.

Well, at least Hooliganism triggered their cognitive memory.

I really like all of the movies in the Cornetto trilogy.

To be 100% honest, I didn't like any of Edgar Wright's movies until Baby Driver -- which hurts badly since I feel like I should like them and Edgar has a really cool taste in cinema from all the interviews I've seen about him.

I just don't find them funny.

pizza sette notte in nero

One of his more cerebrally put-together pizzas, showing that he doesn't have to rely on gore or exploitation elements to make something good.

Also co-starring Marc Porel who we just watched in Live Like a Cop, Die Like a Man.

I’ve seen five of his films, and I’ve been ready to write him off.

New York ripper and....?

Personally, my favorite films of his are:
Massacre Time (Spaghetti Western that is almost like a proto-John Woo film at points, complete with white doves and all)
Conquest (not sure I should admit this though)
The Beyond (Conventional choice)

People also tend to like Lizard in a Woman's Skin (great title, don't watch if you're a dog person) and Don't Torture a Duckling (horrible title, but probably his most "conventionally" good in terms of having a theme and message and all).

He's one of the very few auteurs among Italian horror directors and his characteristic traits have nothing to do with special effects.

Yeah he's the auteur of doing horrible things to eyeballs.

Didn't he have a quote saying something like "When the eyes have seen to much... they have to go".

Who else would you add to that list? Argento? Bava? Lamerto? Soavi? Surely not that overrated trollop Sergio Martino!?