SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 89 Discussion - Chocolate

[Guestx]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info.

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC. Or if you prefer, here's a more detailed examination.


Thanks to @jeicex we're wandering into martial arts movie territory, Thai-style!

Our Director​

Chocolate is directed by Prachya Pinkaew.

Prachya graduated from Nakhon Ratchasima Technology College in Nakhon Ratchasima Province, Thailand, in 1985, majoring in architecture. He began his career in 1990, working as an art director and later as creative director at Packshot Entertainment, an advertising firm. He directed music videos and won several Best Music Video Awards at Thailand's Golden Television Awards.

His first feature film was made in 1992 and called The Magic Shoes. It was followed in 1995 by Dark Side Romance, a karmic thriller-romance.

By 1998, Open Maker Head and BaaRamEwe 1999 was concentrating on producing films, including the vampire movie Body Jumper, the action-comedy Heaven's Seven, the horror movie 999-9999, the musical Hoedown Showdown, the frankly sexual comedy Sayew and the arthouse drama Fake.

With his own Baa-Ram-Ewe production house, his name is seen on many films produced for Sahamongkol Film International.

In 2003 he took the director's chair for Ong-Bak: Muay Thai Warrior, starring Tony Jaa, which went on to become a worldwide sensation and was the highest-grossing Thai film of the year. He also directed Tony Jaa's next starring feature, Tom-Yum-Goong.

His next projects included Chocolate, about a young autistic female martial artist out for revenge, and Power Kids, about four young martial artists fighting off terrorists who have taken over a hospital. Daab Atamas (Sword), starring Tony Jaa, was canceled. He produced Ong Bak 2, with Jaa directing, released in 2008.

As the president of the Thai Film Directors Association, Prachya Pinkaew has been active during 2007 in lobbying against proposed legislation that would put into place a restrictive motion picture ratings system. The system would replace the 1930 Censorship Code, but would retain the Board of Censors' ability to cut or ban films.

After the violent crackdown on the 2010 protests, he produced an all-star music video with the message "May our happiness return" that is being shown on the Bangkok Skytrain.

In 2011 he directed the action film Elephant White starring Djimon Hounsou and Kevin Bacon, produced by Nu Image and Millennium Films. Filmed and set entirely in Bangkok, the film tells the story of a mercenary (Hounsou) in Thailand who is engaged by a 14-year-old girl who gives his life a new meaning. Bacon plays the mercenary's old friend who may or may not be on his side this time. The film was Pinkaew's English-language/Hollywood debut and was released in early 2011.

In 2011 he also directed the Thai-Korean co-production The Kick with stars from both markets. The film failed to recoup its budget.

In 2013 he directed Tom Yum Goong 2, the sequel to his earlier martial arts film with Tony Jaa reprising his role.

Our Star​

JeeJa Yanin: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2925876

​

Film Overview and YouTube Videos​

Premise: An autistic girl with powerful martial art skills looks to settle her ailing mother's debts by seeking out the ruthless gangs that owe her family money.

Budget: $4.8 million
Box Office: Mojo says $3.1 million, but the Wiki article calls it a box office success, so I dunno.

​

Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)​

* The film originally included Zen watching scenes from Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan movies (in addition to Tony Jaa), but these scenes were eventually cut due to licensing problems. These licensing problems also caused other scenes to be removed from the original movie. The ice factory scene was originally shot as a split screen of Zen imitating the exact same moves she had seen Bruce Lee do in a fight scene from the movie The Big Boss (1971). It showed a clip of Bruce Lee doing his fight moves at the same time as Zen was mimicking Bruce Lee's moves. The warehouse scene was shot in a similar fashion, but this time it showed a split screen of Zen imitating Jackie Chan, wherein she would do her interpretation of a Jackie Chan fight routine. Eventually not only were the split screen scenes removed, but any scenes that involved Zen performing moves that too closely resembled fight sequences from Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan movies were all cut as well. The original full version that included these scenes has not been released anywhere in Thailand.

* The way Zen sometimes eats candy by bouncing it off of her arm is reminiscent of a similar trick performed by Jackie Chan in several of his own movies.

* Some of the actors got injured and to had to be hospitalized during the shooting.

Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @jeicex @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Caveat @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @jasonrest29

Honorary Member: @Bullitt68

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Two thumbs up for this one. Thoroughly entertaining. Love how she mimicked Bruce and Jackie. At one point the autistic dude martial artist seemed like a bit much, but then when she mimicked his style I had to laugh. Totally fun film. Would recommend.

 

[MusterX]

I can't find a link for this film anywhere. I would be glad to watch it if someone can PM me a link.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Forgot to mention, wtf was up with homie shooting his own toe? Is that some kind of statement in Asia? I mean, I laughed and said if he'll shoot himself he'll sure as shit shoot you.

Then he cuts off Zin's toe later. Might have also been another foot thing somewhere. Thought I was watching a Tarantino flick there for a bit.

 

[the muntjac]

Chocolate? More like Vanilla.

It seems I watched the international version with a runtime of 92 minutes rather than the original Thailand version of 110 minutes. So maybe in that missing 20 minutes it made this film better and would have given me a reason to care.

This movie opens with us thrown right into a scene with no context of why these characters are here and are at conflict with one another. We get the most basic structure of, “These mean people are the bad guys. Hate them. These people being affected by the mean people are the good guys. Like them.” Honestly, I had no idea what was going on, and why I should be caring. Perhaps in that longer version of the movie there’s more backstory, but I’m only playing with the cards I’m dealt.

So now there’s a baby and it’s autistic and eats flies. Later she grows up and is fearful of flies...because...? She doesn’t like the taste of them? I don’t know.

Because of her autism, she’s able to astutely observe and mimic things she sees, and because of this, she’s able to fight like a martial arts pro. Also, it seems like she has Spidey sense. Look, I can forgive how absolutely silly this all is because it’s a movie, but what I’m not forgiving is how bored I am watching this film because I don’t care about any of the characters because the movie hasn’t given me a reason to.

So now she’s going to various workplaces, demanding money, pissing off the boss, then beating up all of the laborers. I was waiting for her to turn into the Hulk at the ice factory when she’s lying on the ground and seething. She gets up after being angered and beats up everybody, so she’s kinda like the Hulk, minus the green and Lou Ferrigno features. After she clears the room, then we see her do this exact same scene two more times in a different setting with different stunts. I never knew I could feel so bored during well-choreographed fight scenes.

Eventually, the mean people from the beginning show back up, and are continuing their flat, one-note villainy. Our hero now easily dispatches all the goons, until she runs into what seems to be their own autistic fighter. Oh, my god, movie. Really? Was the idea here to combat “autistic” strength with “autistic” strength. Yikes.

I did laugh when the dude is being rushed by a dozen guys with swords, and he pulls out a gun and starts shooting them Indiana Jones style. That was the highlight of the movie for me.

Now the hero is climbing building ledges chasing down the main mean guy while playing whack-a-mole with all the goons popping out of windows. The problem with films like this is that guns appear and disappear when it’s convenient for the plot. We saw them used earlier by the bad guys, but now they can’t simply line up on the street and mow her down with lead? At one point, she’s shot at and her cousin yells “flies” to cue her to dodge the bullet. Are we really supposed to believe she didn’t know that she needed to dodge a bullet? She’s able to understand how things work by seeing it, and people were being shot earlier, so...? Eventually, she catches up with the main baddie and sends him crashing on ledges like a few previous bad guys. I guess he doesn’t get his own special death.

The mom dies, and the girl goes to live with her father now. The film’s trying to tell me some deep message about life not being perfect, and how love is the thing that makes it all better. Barf. I’d argue that love is a big reason we hurt, and now this girl is going to be traumatized with emotional pain for the rest of her life because she set out on a quest to save her mom from cancer, only for her to get killed.

During the credits, we see the actors getting hurt during stunts, and I was thinking how much of a shame it is these people put their health on the line for a lousy movie.

I can’t say I was a fan of this one. Sure, some stunts were neat, but nothing else was worth writing home about, and the film felt very repetitious. And rather than me ending on a downer, here’s a video of stick figures kung-fu fighting.

 

[the muntjac]

Forgot to mention, wtf was up with homie shooting his own toe? Is that some kind of statement in Asia? I mean, I laughed and said if he'll shoot himself he'll sure as shit shoot you.

Then he cuts off Zin's toe later. Might have also been another foot thing somewhere. Thought I was watching a Tarantino flick there for a bit.

I thought this was weird too. The best I could come up with is he’s warning them that they better not figuratively make him feel like he shot himself in the foot for letting them go by literally shooting himself in the foot. I don’t know. I didn’t get it. Or maybe he’s just really shitty at handling his gun.

 

[the muntjac]

I can't find a link for this film anywhere. I would be glad to watch it if someone can PM me a link.

I can’t find the link I used now. I thought I found it, but the subtitles aren’t showing up. Everyone I find now aren’t showing subtitles. I’ll keep searching.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

So now she’s going to various workplaces, demanding money, pissing off the boss, then beating up all of the laborers.

It's part of the charm.

Spoiler

I commented on how that pay-scale between meat-cutting and fighting to the death might be vast and wondered if homies were on retainer or something.

 

[Guestx]

I liked this movie.

I always take note when a movie feels like it has a different vibe than your standard film and I felt like this movie has a different vibe. It puts a fresh spin on some familiar martial arts movie tropes.

I thought the idea of Zen, the autistic warrior, learning martial arts from watching movies was cool. It reminded me of when I was a kid and my friends and I would literally STUDY martial arts movies and then try to emulate the techniques. Before I ever stepped foot in a martial arts school I could throw a mean spinning hook kick and it was all because of movies.

I thought that the choreography was generally pretty good and occasionally even excellent, but this movie does require some substantial suspension of disbelief because this girl is TINY. Gwendoline Christie she most definitely is not. What do y'all think she weighs? Maybe a hundred pounds? Obviously she's never going to be beating dudes' asses, but what I think was just as much of an issue for me is that she didn't really SELL a lot of the techniques. If she threw every strike with conviction then it would help a lot, but in many cases it was obvious she was just touching the guys and then you get this big fake sound effect. But hey, I get it, it's a movie, and it wasn't THAT big of a deal for me.

I really liked the first part of the finale in the Japanese dojo place and the dance-battle-with-strikes that she had with the other (autistic? or something else?) kid. He stepped to her and she stepped to him. And the result was a delightfully whimsical scene that looked like it came right out of an Asian version of Step Up 3.

From a perspective of craftsmanship, some of the film felt kind of weird. For one, there were a SHITLOAD of fades. Fade out, fade in. Fade out, fade in. I've never seen so much fading in any movie save, perhaps, for this Ralph Macchio movie that came out a few years ago called A Little Game. There were also some crossfades early on that reminded me of something out of a mid-90s made-for-TV movie.

The soundtrack also is notable, mostly in regard to how absolutely stock it feels. Much of it sounded like they forgot to replace the temp track with whatever they decided should be the permanent selection.

While I do have some criticisms about the film, overall I enjoyed it and I liked how off-beat it felt. I also found it to be surprisingly emotional and I really bought into the characters and the journey they were all taking together. I believed in the mom's sickness and in everyone's desire to heal her, as well as Zen's dad's love for Zen's mom.

I'm going to give it a 7.5/10. Good pick.

 

[Guestx]

Chocolate? More like Vanilla.

It seems I watched the international version with a runtime of 92 minutes rather than the original Thailand version of 110 minutes. So maybe in that missing 20 minutes it made this film better and would have given me a reason to care.

This movie opens with us thrown right into a scene with no context of why these characters are here and are at conflict with one another. We get the most basic structure of, “These mean people are the bad guys. Hate them. These people being affected by the mean people are the good guys. Like them.” Honestly, I had no idea what was going on, and why I should be caring. Perhaps in that longer version of the movie there’s more backstory, but I’m only playing with the cards I’m dealt.

So now there’s a baby and it’s autistic and eats flies. Later she grows up and is fearful of flies...because...? She doesn’t like the taste of them? I don’t know.

Because of her autism, she’s able to astutely observe and mimic things she sees, and because of this, she’s able to fight like a martial arts pro. Also, it seems like she has Spidey sense. Look, I can forgive how absolutely silly this all is because it’s a movie, but what I’m not forgiving is how bored I am watching this film because I don’t care about any of the characters because the movie hasn’t given me a reason to.

If this movie didn't give you a reason to care, then what does a movie have to do?

The mom has cancer. She's left a life of crime to care for her autistic daughter. Moom's not even family but he's doing everything he can to help Zen and her mom. Masashi obviously cares deeply for his lost love, even going back and risking his life for her.

I legitimately do not understand this criticism at all. We have backstories. We have difficult circumstances. We have emotionally-resonant performances and likable characters.

I mean, seriously, WHAT ELSE DOES THE FILM NEED TO DO?

Eventually, the mean people from the beginning show back up, and are continuing their flat, one-note villainy. Our hero now easily dispatches all the goons, until she runs into what seems to be their own autistic fighter. Oh, my god, movie. Really? Was the idea here to combat “autistic” strength with “autistic” strength. Yikes.

LOL. My only problem with this was how utterly implausible it was.

Other than that, I loved it.

The mom dies, and the girl goes to live with her father now. The film’s trying to tell me some deep message about life not being perfect, and how love is the thing that makes it all better. Barf. I’d argue that love is a big reason we hurt, and now this girl is going to be traumatized with emotional pain for the rest of her life because she set out on a quest to save her mom from cancer, only for her to get killed.

Bruh . . . is your heart made of stone?

I legit teared up a little at the ending, especially when you see Zen embraced by her father.

 

[Guestx]

Forgot to mention, wtf was up with homie shooting his own toe? Is that some kind of statement in Asia? I mean, I laughed and said if he'll shoot himself he'll sure as shit shoot you.

Then he cuts off Zin's toe later. Might have also been another foot thing somewhere. Thought I was watching a Tarantino flick there for a bit.

I was totally wondering this as well.

Is there is ONE just straight up WTF moment in the film, it's that none. It makes no sense to me and I can't even begin to understand it.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I was totally wondering this as well.

Is there is ONE just straight up WTF moment in the film, it's that none. It makes no sense to me and I can't even begin to understand it.

Must be related to some of that Bruce or Jackie shit that got censored cut?

 

[Guestx]

Must be related to some of that Bruce or Jackie shit that got censored cut?

Shit, I dunno man, maybe. Or maybe just some weird cultural Thai shit kind of like you were saying earlier.

It was weird, though.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Shit, I dunno man, maybe. Or maybe just some weird cultural Thai shit kind of like you were saying earlier.

It was weird, though.

It was odd and noticeable. For all Quentin took from Asian cinema, would be footing if he somehow gave something back.

 

[chickenluver]

It seems I watched the international version with a runtime of 92 minutes rather than the original Thailand version of 110 minutes. So maybe in that missing 20 minutes it made this film better and would have given me a reason to care.

I was going to ask about this.

Anybody know if the original cut is readily available? @europe1 generally seems to have knowledge of these matters.

 

[the muntjac]

If this movie didn't give you a reason to care, then what does a movie have to do?

Not start me off in a scene where I’m wondering what’s happening and why these people are at conflict with each other. Some more conviction, and dare I say development behind the characters reasons (regarding the opening scenes) would have been nice. Sure, I was eventually able to deduce that the mom character was angering the main baddie by being with the dad character, but the way it was handled was very vague and rushed.

I found the bad guys and fight scenes to be monotonous. Sure, there were some cool stunts, but when the movie basically puts the same fight scene back to back three times in a row, I start to check out.

The mom has cancer. She's left a life of crime to care for her autistic daughter. Moom's not even family but he's doing everything he can to help Zen and her mom. Masashi obviously cares deeply for his lost love, even going back and risking his life for her.

I legitimately do not understand this criticism at all. We have backstories. We have difficult circumstances. We have emotionally-resonant performances and likable characters.

This movie’s emotional depth isn’t as deep as you’re selling it here. It’s ham-handed and forced. Yeah, the conventions are there, but there’s no life to them. The closest thing I can compare this movie to is Kill Bill. Both deal with a woman leaving a criminal gang when they learn they’re pregnant and go to be with another man, which angers their male boss. Kill Bill took the time to craft meaning behind not even just the Bride’s actions, but behind Bill’s too. The characters were fleshed out, the drive to see the Bride complete her vendetta was there, and when she does it, there’s something to be felt about it. The scene were she finds out she’s pregnant and convinces the hitwoman to walk away was an entralling scene. I get nothing like this from Chocolate.

I mean, seriously, WHAT ELSE DOES THE FILM NEED TO DO?

Damn, all caps. I must have really struck a nerve this time.

Bruh . . . is your heart made of stone?

I legit teared up a little at the ending, especially when you see Zen embraced by her father.

Really? The vanilla dad character who has maybe 5 minutes of on-screen time and 10 lines did it for you? Wait a second...
He’s vanilla.
She’s chocolate.

Oh my, what a twist!

 

[Guestx]

Not start me off in a scene where I’m wondering what’s happening and why these people are at conflict with each other. Some more conviction, and dare I say development behind the characters reasons (regarding the opening scenes) would have been nice. Sure, I was eventually able to deduce that the mom character was angering the main baddie by being with the dad character, but the way it was handled was very vague and rushed.

I found the bad guys and fight scenes to be monotonous. Sure, there were some cool stunts, but when the movie basically puts the same fight scene back to back three times in a row, I start to check out.

I agree that the opening was a bit clunky but I was able to get my bearings pretty quickly, so it wasn't a big problem for me.

Basically, from the opening scenes what's important to know is that the Japanese and Thai mobsters are at odds with one another and Masashi and Zen's mom are engaging in a forbidden love affair. And I think this point is made clearly enough.

This movie’s emotional depth isn’t as deep as you’re selling it here. It’s ham-handed and forced. Yeah, the conventions are there, but there’s no life to them. The closest thing I can compare this movie to is Kill Bill. Both deal with a woman leaving a criminal gang when they learn they’re pregnant and go to be with another man, which angers their male boss. Kill Bill took the time to craft meaning behind not even just the Bride’s actions, but behind Bill’s too. The characters were fleshed out, the drive to see the Bride complete her vendetta was there, and when she does it, there’s something to be felt about it. The scene were she finds out she’s pregnant and convinces the hitwoman to walk away was an entralling scene. I get nothing like this from Chocolate.

Well it's not as polished of a film as Kill Bill, but then again few filmmakers are Quentin Tarantino. I bought into the emotional content of the story largely because the performers were able to sell it.

The plot TELLS us what is true, but the actors MAKE US BELIEVE IT. And I thought in this case the actors did a solid job of making us believe in their various trials and tribulations, as well as their affection for one another.

Really? The vanilla dad character who has maybe 5 minutes of on-screen time and 10 lines did it for you? Wait a second...
He’s vanilla.
She’s chocolate.

Oh my, what a twist!

When the mom was killed I was consumed by this sense of dissatisfaction. After all, if the mom dies then it was all for nothing. There was no point in fighting everybody to get the money for her cancer treatments. It was all for naught and the whole story is pretty pointless.

But I was able to take some solace in the fact that Zen was going to be okay and had another parent who loved her and would be looking after her. She lost her mom but at least was able to gain a relationship with her dad, who was willing to step in and be a father to her despite the fact that taking care of a special needs kid requires a lot of extra care and attention.

 

[the muntjac]

I agree that the opening was a bit clunky but I was able to get my bearings pretty quickly, so it wasn't a big problem for me.

Basically, from the opening scenes what's important to know is that the Japanese and Thai mobsters are at odds with one another and Masashi and Zen's mom are engaging in a forbidden love affair. And I think this point is made clearly enough.



Well it's not as polished of a film as Kill Bill, but then again few filmmakers are Quentin Tarantino. I bought into the emotional content of the story largely because the performers were able to sell it.

The plot TELLS us what is true, but the actors MAKE US BELIEVE IT. And I thought in this case the actors did a solid job of making us believe in their various trials and tribulations, as well as their affection for one another.



When the mom was killed I was consumed by this sense of dissatisfaction. After all, if the mom dies then it was all for nothing. There was no point in fighting everybody to get the money for her cancer treatments. It was all for naught and the whole story is pretty pointless.

But I was able to take some solace in the fact that Zen was going to be okay and had another parent who loved her and would be looking after her. She lost her mom but at least was able to gain a relationship with her dad, who was willing to step in and be a father to her despite the fact that taking care of a special needs kid requires a lot of extra care and attention.

Being that this is a story of an autistic teenager kicking adult men’s asses because she can perfectly mimic martial arts just by watching it, I didn’t think such a silly idea was really warranting a deep emotional response. Sure, cancer and death is sad, but I guess I wasn’t swept up by the performances because A) I found them only to be serviceable, and B) the characters were all pretty much one-note. For example, the girl’s best friend seemed to follow the Thai trend I’ve seen in their movies where he acts like the more lighthearted, bumbling, unathletic counterpart and has bright yellow hair. Even in Ong Bak (same director) the sidekick character in that featured these same characteristics. When we watched The Host, the main character started off like this, but later shed it to symbolize his growth. My point is, I didn’t see the Moom character as anything unique to set himself apart from what I’ve already seen, and he was basically just serving a role.

Now, seeing conventions repeated in films is to be expected, but differences are noticed depending on the craft. The original Die Hard and Die Hard 2 are basically the same story - Off duty cop is at the wrong place at the wrong time and must defeat a group of terrorists holding people hostage. The original is awesome and the sequel is meh. Things like dialogue, characters’ motives, choices, and actions can really reshape the way a story is presented, and when action is a big selling point of the film, it helps for it to be interesting.

Chocolate really didn’t stand out to me. I found it to be clumsy and monotonous. If it makes you feel any better, I liked Detention more than this.

 

[Guestx]

Being that this is a story of an autistic teenager kicking adult men’s asses because she can perfectly mimic martial arts just by watching it, I didn’t think such a silly idea was really warranting a deep emotional response.

The premise is silly but it's a silly premise that is played pretty straight. Since the movie seemed to take itself seriously, I was willing to take it seriously as well.

If it makes you feel any better, I liked Detention more than this.

It makes me feel a smidge better.

BTW, where the hell is everybody this week? Just me, you and Cubo holding down the fort this time?

 

[Guestx]

. . . and the dance-battle-with-strikes that she had with the other kid.

Like I said, shit looks like it's right out of one of the Step Up movies.