SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 98 Discussion - Kill List

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Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC. Or if you prefer, here's a more detailed examination.


@FrontNakedChoke is up this week, as we travel from Norway to the UK.


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Our Director


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Initially a short film maker and animator, Ben Wheatley moved his work to the internet. His clip "cunning stunt" which shows his friend Rob Hill jumping over a car has had over 10 million views. The hundred or so short animations and games found on the "Mr and Mrs Wheatley" site were noticed by large media companies and Wheatley's work expanded into mainstream media.

In 2006 Wheatley won a "Lion" award at Cannes advertising festival for directing the AMBX viral, with The Viral Factory. In July 2006 he directed live-action sections of the TV series Modern Toss, ("i live ere", "Alan", "Drive by abuser", "Customer services", "Accident and emergency", "Citizens advice", "Illegal alphabet"), which was aired on Channel 4. Wheatley has also written and created clips for BBC Two's Time Trumpet and has appeared in and directed sketches for BBC Three's Comedy Shuffle. Between 2007 and 2009 Wheatley directed series 2 of Modern Toss, The Wrong Door and Ideal series 5 and 6 for BBC Three.

In May 2009 he directed the feature film Down Terrace in eight days; it won the Next Wave prize at Fantastic Fest in Austin and Best UK Feature at Raindance in London. In 2010 Wheatley completed his second feature, Kill List for Warp X. Wheatley's third film was the black comedy Sightseers, released in the UK in November 2012. It was written by its stars, Alice Lowe and Steve Oram, with additional material by Amy Jump, and was chosen for the Directors' Fortnight section of the 2012 Cannes Film Festival. Wheatley's fourth film, A Field in England was financed through the Film4 talent and ideas hub, Film4.0. It was followed in 2016 by High Rise, an adaptation of the J.G. Ballard novel of the same name. He has also directed advertisements for Blink Productions and Moxie.

A sci-fi TV series, Silk Road, written and directed by Wheatley, has been announced. It is said to be "in the vein of the Patrick McGoohan TV series The Prisoner," and will be screened on HBO. In 2014, Wheatley directed the first two episodes of the eighth series of Doctor Who, a show he has been a fan of since childhood.

His most recent film, Free Fire, was released in 2016.



Film Overview and YouTube Videos


Premise: Nearly a year after a botched job, a hitman takes a new assignment with the promise of a big payoff for three killings. What starts off as an easy task soon unravels, sending the killer into the heart of darkness.

Budget: $800,000
Box Office: $462,000






Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)

* The film was written for the lead actors and the filmmakers had no other choices than them.

* The scene where Jay rips off the table cloth was taken from several episodes in writer Amy Jump's childhood.

* Shel's phone-call was entirely improvised by MyAnna Buring. The filmmakers had no idea what she said until much later.

* The cult's symbol was designed by Wheatley, who later recognised influence from The Blair Witch Project. Wheatley was worried people might call him on its similarities, but he was instead surprised to find people comparing it to a symbol from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, with which he is unfamiliar.

* After making Down Terrace, Wheatley wanted to use the lessons learned to make a horror film. The original treatment was a hybrid of the styles and themes of Get Carter and H. P. Lovecraft that was to have been shot in the Philippines. Shooting took place over 18 days. Wheatley was influenced by Stanley Kubrick in that he sought to find imagery first, then wove the plot around it. In each scene, they shot one take using the script and then paraphrased and improvised. The actors also worked out back stories for their characters through improvisation. The script was much more explicit in its themes and ideas, but Wheatley edited the film to form a more ambiguous and minimalist story. By keeping allusions to those scenes, he wanted to give viewers enough information to form their own interpretation.



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Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Caveat @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @chickenluver @Strange King @FrontNakedChoke @Johnson
 
Not really sure what I watched here. Started out promising in that I thought we might get some hot foursome action. Especially when the brunette pulled the mirror off the way. I'm like, here comes the cocaine. But nope. No naked gorgeous blonde. :(

Main character was totally unlikable. Between than and the language barrier I had trouble knowing what was happening and caring about. Then at the end it takes some weird twist that reminded me of A Serbian Film. Part of me wanted to know why but mostly I didn't really give a shit. Was just happy the movie was over. Maybe this is really a great film and it just didn't appeal to me.
 
All right, cunts. The very first thing I want to say is thank God for subtitles. Because without them I wouldn't have been able to understand about a third of what was said in this film, the limey fucks.

And the second thing I want to say is that this movie was weird.

Ultimately, it reminded me a lot of a Nicolas Winding Refn film, in that it leans heavily on the viewer to interpret the film for themselves rather than just coming out and explaining certain elements of the plot. I know a lot of people really dislike films like that, but I can sometimes get on board as long as the film manufactures a compelling vibe and atmosphere to go along with the opaque plot.

So do I feel like Kill List did that?

Well, kind of. Even though I found the pacing to be slow and had to will myself to keep paying attention, I was mostly with the movie until the very end.

At one point it turns into a totally different film when it goes full Wicker Man, transforming from a family drama about a hitman to a full-on horror movie, which I did not see coming. And that was fine (even though I did not feel like it was set up much at all) and it got my attention, but then in the last three minutes the whole thing fell apart.

So his wife was in on the whole thing, hence her cackling like a hyena? Nah, that doesn't track. Nothing in the movie indicates that she was ever anything more than a caring wife and we even see her killing the cultists with the pistol. The ending to me just seemed like a "gotcha" ending that Wheatley threw in there to shock the audience, but it's not an ending that is actually supported by the preceding text of the film.

I think there was an interesting idea here, and some of the execution is very impressive (especially for a relatively inexperienced director working with only an $800,000 budget), but it's like a football player fumbling the ball five yards away from the end zone.
 
I think there was an interesting idea here, and some of the execution is very impressive (especially for a relatively inexperienced director working with only an $800,000 budget), but it's like a football player fumbling the ball five yards away from the end zone.

Interesting

I have always wondered about endings. It seems endings are one of if not the most important part of a film to a lot people.

Endings for me are not at a fixed importance...it varies from movie to movie
 
Interesting

I have always wondered about endings. It seems endings are one of if not the most important part of a film to a lot people.

Endings for me are not at a fixed importance...it varies from movie to movie

I definitely feel like a great ending can save an otherwise middling film. You can take a movie that's been an otherwise average affair but give it a really killer third act and the audience will walk out feeling mostly satisfied. But if you have a pretty good movie with a third act that falls apart then the audience is going to feel like they just witnessed something that had so much promise, but that was ultimately a bit of a letdown.

I think that ultimately people want to feel like they encountered a story that held together, and if it falls apart then there's a sense of deflation.

I think a movie can still be good with a relatively weak ending, but at the least the ending shouldn't just be some nonsensical bullshit.
 
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All right, cunts. The very first thing I want to say is thank God for subtitles. Because without them I wouldn't have been able to understand about a third of what was said in this film, the limey fucks.

And the second thing I want to say is that this movie was weird.

Ultimately, it reminded me a lot of a Nicolas Winding Refn film, in that it leans heavily on the viewer to interpret the film for themselves rather than just coming out and explaining certain elements of the plot. I know a lot of people really dislike films like that, but I can sometimes get on board as long as the film manufactures a compelling vibe and atmosphere to go along with the opaque plot.

So do I feel like Kill List did that?

Well, kind of. Even though I found the pacing to be slow and had to will myself to keep paying attention, I was mostly with the movie until the very end.

At one point it turns into a totally different film when it goes full Wicker Man, transforming from a family drama about a hitman to a full-on horror movie, which I did not see coming. And that was fine (even though I did not feel like it was set up much at all) and it got my attention, but then in the last three minutes the whole thing fell apart.

So his wife was in on the whole thing, hence her cackling like a hyena? Nah, that doesn't track. Nothing in the movie indicates that she was ever anything more than a caring wife and we even see her killing the cultists with the pistol. The ending to me just seemed like a "gotcha" ending that Wheatley threw in there to shock the audience, but it's not an ending that is actually supported by the preceding text of the film.

I think there was an interesting idea here, and some of the execution is very impressive (especially for a relatively inexperienced director working with only an $800,000 budget), but it's like a football player fumbling the ball five yards away from the end zone.

I have a write up coming, but no, the wife wasn't in on it. The director was asked specifically about why she would laugh like that and he said that she was laughing at the irony of it all. When they were knife fighting she didn't know it was him and he didn't know it was her.
 
This movie was oppressive in its presentation. It probably deserves at least 2 watches to get the full impact. After watching it I thought I had put it together but then after watching some videos realized there is more to it. Some people believe the entire film is a dream and there is evidence for that theory but instead I think we have to determine wtf the cult was doing and why. Their symbol basically was an A which was also the shape of the hanging contraption.

th


I think we can safely assume that it was a cult of Satanists. We might even say their symbol is an A so they could be a cult of the Anti-Christ. It doesn't really matter what you call them but you have to start from that premise for anything to make sense. For example, why were the victims on the kill list saying "Thank You"? The Priest said it, the Librarian said it. In fact the Librarian took it a step further. When Gal went to check the safe and he was alone with Jay, he says to Jay, you don't even know who you are, and then laughed. The Librarian makes it a point, like the Priest, to thank Jay ahead of time for killing him.

The reason why is because they believe Jay to be the future leader of their cult, or the anti-christ and they serve Satan so they are thanking him for having the privilidge of being killed by him. Interestingly, the last thing Gal tells Jay before he shoots him is "thanks." Same as the others, so it makes you think Gal is in on it. At the very least we know Gal was the one that took Jay to the old man that hired them and gave them the kill list.

Here is Gal's death scene, timestamped where he says, thanks as he dies.



So basically the Priest, the Librarian, the woman that hanged herself, even possibly Gal, were willingly sacrificing themselves. Even if Gal's thank you was simply coincidence, the others were basically blood sacrificing themselves and it had specifically to do with Jay. If you remember during the dinner party after Jay exploded and destroyed the dinner, Gal's date, Fiona, went in the bathroom and marked the back of the mirror with the A symbol. That's why I really think Gal may have been in on it. Fiona his date was a member of the cult, we know that at least, and Gal introduced the cult to Jay.

They were looking for their leader and Jay was it. He was already a former soldier and a hit man so he had to be pushed even further to become truly evil. It almost reminds me of a reverse of the Michael Douglas movie, The Game. Only in The Game the ending was a relief, and happy, everyone clapped and then had a celebration, it was all a big mind fuck but in Kill List at the end when it was all revealed, they all clapped and celebrated but it was dark and grisly.

There was also some foreshadowing in there you can't catch the first time around.

th


So there was a lot of obscure things going on and basically Jay = Anti-Christ or the next leader of the cult or whatever you want to ascribe to the end game with him but he was being selected specifically for all these to happen and people were willing to die by his hand to make it happen.
 
Not really sure what I watched here. Started out promising in that I thought we might get some hot foursome action. Especially when the brunette pulled the mirror off the way. I'm like, here comes the cocaine. But nope. No naked gorgeous blonde. :(

Main character was totally unlikable. Between than and the language barrier I had trouble knowing what was happening and caring about. Then at the end it takes some weird twist that reminded me of A Serbian Film. Part of me wanted to know why but mostly I didn't really give a shit. Was just happy the movie was over. Maybe this is really a great film and it just didn't appeal to me.

For a possible explanation read my post above. There is a lot going on with that film. Some people think its a dream, possibly a nightmare of something to do with the botched job in Kiev because several times during the film characters shake or slap Jay and tell him to wake up. I'm more on the side that he is the future leader of a satanic cult or basically the anti-christ. Everything was set up to bring Jay to the ultimate blood sacrifice which was him killing his wife and son.
 
For a possible explanation read my post above. There is a lot going on with that film. Some people think its a dream, possibly a nightmare of something to do with the botched job in Kiev because several times during the film characters shake or slap Jay and tell him to wake up. I'm more on the side that he is the future leader of a satanic cult or basically the anti-christ. Everything was set up to bring Jay to the ultimate blood sacrifice which was him killing his wife and son.

Thanks bro. Unfortunately I find both of those equally uninteresting. The movie just didn't entertain me much as it went along. The brutality was outstanding though.
 
Thanks bro. Unfortunately I find both of those equally uninteresting. The movie just didn't entertain me much as it went along. The brutality was outstanding though.

The hammer scene is pretty famous for its brutality. I was just saying, there is a definite plot here. They weren't trying to kill Jay, they were bringing Jay into the cult as a sort of promised one.
 
The hammer scene is pretty famous for its brutality. I was just saying, there is a definite plot here. They weren't trying to kill Jay, they were bringing Jay into the cult as a sort of promised one.

They must have had nothing but losers in their ranks. A good organization promotes from within. And if you have to go outside for top-tier talent then the ideal candidate should have some knowledge and experience. Did Jay really know anything about leading a Satanic cult? Does he even Heavy Metal? :eek::D
 
They must have had nothing but losers in their ranks. A good organization promotes from within. And if you have to go outside for top-tier talent then the ideal candidate should have some knowledge and experience. Did Jay really know anything about leading a Satanic cult? Does he even Heavy Metal? :eek::D

I think he was supposed to be the Anti-Christ. He just doesn't know who he is yet. They are sacrificing themselves to Satan not just so some guy can get a promotion to cult leader. I mean he would be their leader but he's more than that, he's a legendarily evil archetype.

th
 
I think he was supposed to be the Anti-Christ. He just doesn't know who he is yet. They are sacrificing themselves to Satan not just so some guy can get a promotion to cult leader. I mean he would be their leader but he's more than that, he's a legendarily evil archetype.

th


Must have gotten hit on the head in Kiev.
 
Must have gotten hit on the head in Kiev.

I can sense the power of your sarcasm. Something happened in Kiev but we never find out what. One thing is, we should have known from the beginning that there was something different with Jay. When they meet the old man that hires them he cuts Jay's hand and his own but not Gal's. This along with Gal saying thank you as Jay kills him makes me think Gal was in on it. Then there was the scene with the group that sing the song Onward Christian Soldiers and Jay just can't stomach it. He wants to murder the entire table. So if you assume he is the real deal Anti-Christ or some similar type of character, this scene makes way more sense to be in the film.

 
I can sense the power of your sarcasm. Something happened in Kiev but we never find out what. One thing is, we should have known from the beginning that there was something different with Jay. When they meet the old man that hires them he cuts Jay's hand and his own but not Gal's. This along with Gal saying thank you as Jay kills him makes me think Gal was in on it. Then there was the scene with the group that sing the song Onward Christian Soldiers and Jay just can't stomach it. He wants to murder the entire table. So if you assume he is the real deal Anti-Christ or some similar type of character, this scene makes way more sense to be in the film.



You're right about the singing. Though in the hand-cutting scene Gal pulled his gun on the guy.
 
You're right about the singing. Though in the hand-cutting scene Gal pulled his gun on the guy.

Well yea, Gal pulled his gun but if the guy hiring them demanded they all cut their hand or he wasn't paying them they Gal would have taken the cut as well. The old man was only interested in cutting Jay and himself. I noticed it when I originally saw it but didn't realize until later that the reason why it was only Jay's hand is because Jay was their chosen one, of whatever you want to call him.
 
Well yea, Gal pulled his gun but if the guy hiring them demanded they all cut their hand or he wasn't paying them they Gal would have taken the cut as well. The old man was only interested in cutting Jay and himself. I noticed it when I originally saw it but didn't realize until later that the reason why it was only Jay's hand is because Jay was their chosen one, of whatever you want to call him.

My point was that if Gal was in on it he sure acted surprised at that moment.
 
My point was that if Gal was in on it he sure acted surprised at that moment.

They all act surprised and legit. that's why I say it reminded me of The Game (1997) with Michael Douglas. Everyone is in on it and acting their asses off.

th


The difference is that at the end of The Game it was a happy thing with clapping and a party, in Kill List they also clapped at the big reveal but it was dark. We know Fiona was in on it, and Gal might have been in on it and the entire cult was obviously in on it, including the Priest, the Librarian, and the MP. Everyone knew what was going on except Jay and his wife and maybe gal, maybe Gal didn't know but the evidence against him is the following.

1. Gal is the one that took Jay to the man hiring them with the kill list who is a cult member or leader.
2. Gal did not take a cut to the hand. It seems like if he wasn't on it he would have been required to.
3. Gal's dinner date was Fiona, who we know was a cult member and who marked the back of the bathroom mirror.
4. Gal said thanks as Jay killed him, same as the others on the kill list.

So if Gal wasn't in on it then I think it was a mistake in writing or directing.
 
They all act surprised and legit. that's why I say it reminded me of The Game (1997) with Michael Douglas. Everyone is in on it and acting their asses off.

th


The difference is that at the end of The Game it was a happy thing with clapping and a party, in Kill List they also clapped at the big reveal but it was dark. We know Fiona was in on it, and Gal might have been in on it and the entire cult was obviously in on it, including the Priest, the Librarian, and the MP. Everyone knew what was going on except Jay and his wife and maybe gal, maybe Gal didn't know but the evidence against him is the following.

1. Gal is the one that took Jay to the man hiring them with the kill list who is a cult member or leader.
2. Gal did not take a cut to the hand. It seems like if he wasn't on it he would have been required to.
3. Gal's dinner date was Fiona, who we know was a cult member and who marked the back of the bathroom mirror.
4. Gal said thanks as Jay killed him, same as the others on the kill list.

So if Gal wasn't in on it then I think it was a mistake in writing or directing.

You might be right.
 
Not as good as I remember it being. To be honest I didn't really love it this time around. Funny how you can remember movies being better than they really are.

Sorry to those who disliked it! :oops:
 
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