PC Sherdog PC Build/Buy Thread, v6: My Power Supply Burned Down My House

[90 50]

BUT if you decided that multithreaded applications are benificial to you, AND since you would be buying a Mobo either way, the r7 2700x is cheaper and kicks rocks at the 7700k in multi threaded applications. And is cheaper than an 8700k

 

[Woldog]

I don’t know sh1t from sugar, but I’ve been learning a bunch real fast

On links like this with benchmark results I would say it really depends.

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-7700K/3937vs3647

If you break it down to what are you doing, is single core speed more important or multicore speed that would answer your question quickly.

The single core speeds are almost identical, there is almost no benifit in the 8700 over the 7700, BUT the 8700 is MUCH faster in applications that take advantage of multicore hyperthreading.

As I’ve been learning most games do not benifit from multicore as much as all out single core speed.

This I believe will answer your question, do the games you play benifit from multicore hylerthreading or not.

I'm unsure as to how many games right now are optimized for multicore. when I do the user benchmark I get 128% for gaming. So I guess my computer is fine how it is. I just have no self control lol

 

[KaNesDeath]

That’s a good looking looking case!

Thanks, its hidden behind my entertainment center...lol

Is there any point from upgrading from a 4.9ghz i7 7700k to a i7 8700k and a new motherboard?

Not really. Price cost isnt worth such a minimal gain in CPU performance.

 

[90 50]

Thanks, its hidden behind my entertainment center...lol





Not really. Price cost isnt worth such a minimal gain in CPU performance.

There is a large gain in cpu performance, the 8700k is ranked 7th and the 7700k is ranked 21st.

For most games there isn’t much difference though because all the gains come from multicore speeds and almost none from single core only benchmarks.

So it definitely is much faster “from a certain point of view”

 

[Blayt7hh]

My uncle gave me $1000 for no reason so my 1080ti has technically cost me -$550 now after the sale of my old iphone. Is there any point from upgrading from a 4.9ghz i7 7700k to a i7 8700k and a new motherboard?

It's been out for like 8-9 months now. For such a minimal upgrade you might as well wait at this point

 

[Woldog]

It's been out for like 8-9 months now. For such a minimal upgrade you might as well wait at this point

I've already got it and it cost me nothing now. I'll just do what I always do sell it when the new ones come out and upgrade if you were talking about the 1080ti because I was running a 1070. If you were talking about the 8700k then I'm inclined to agree with you

 

[Blayt7hh]

I've already got it and it cost me nothing now. I'll just do what I always do sell it when the new ones come out and upgrade if you were talking about the 1080ti because I was running a 1070. If you were talking about the 8700k then I'm inclined to agree with you

sorry I meant the 8700k. 1080ti is a huge leap in power over the 1070 and you don't have to replace the mother board lol

One thing I hate hate hate about intel is that almost every year they change the motherboard socket.

 

[Woldog]

sorry I meant the 8700k. 1080ti is a huge leap in power over the 1070 and you don't have to replace the mother board lol

One thing I hate hate hate about intel is that almost every year they change the motherboard socket.

That's true, I was a bit annoyed when the LGA1151 was reused but unusable for the new CPU's

 

[Madmick]

That's true, I was a bit annoyed when the LGA1151 was reused but unusable for the new CPU's

At first I thought that would just be a matter of time, and they would add backwards compatibility with BIOS updates, like they almost always do, but in retrospect, it was because Ryzen blindsided them. I think their roadmap had another generation of i7 quad core chipsets planned, and then AMD dickslapped them right in their complacent eyeball. They pivoted to the core-shift, adding two cores, and they needed to look stronger than ever in the single thread benchmarks, so they went crazy with the Turbo Boost dynamic overclocking.

The result was that they couldn't cram the 8th Gen TDP into the 91W motherboards for the 7th gen and before. This explanation makes more sense to me than believing they intended for the higher power draw from square one without designing a brand new motherboard standard specifically engineered for that goal.

Now the 9th Gen i7 leaks indicate it with be Octacore. Intel's future is not looking good. It's a 3-year sell as far as stocks go because they have run out of road, and are probably only going to get another 1-2 generations of high margin dominance before the difference between them and their pursuers becomes a matter of theory.


How ironic. Apparently this was the topic of interest for Linus a few days ago:

 

[Woldog]

Right now the biggest hurdle AMD have is their single core usage, Intel still beat them out the gate with single core which is a big issue in games like World of Warcraft that don't manage to use more than one core. If every game was optimized for multicore the world would be a brilliant place where AMD and Intel gamers could live in harmony.

Also I hit a roadblock with my 4.9ghz OC, We had a very hot winters day (here in Australia that means ambient room temp was 36degree. The heat combined with my OC made it unstable, It was very stable when the room temperature was around 18degree, but with the added temps the CPU was having a hard time staying stable. So I've gone back to stock settings, reapplied my thermalpaste and I'll be testing for the rest of the week.

The other thought I had was it may have been undervolted even at 1.32v and I just managed to hit the perfect storm of crash conditions
Heat
Windows being buggy
Multiple hardware changes over the last year
and gaming for long periods.
I'll miss the 4.9ghz but realistically other than my E-peen its not a huge step up over the 4.6ghz at stock. Just isn't viable seeing as summer is a few months away and that'll already push temps up for the pile of poo that is kabylake. Especially seeing as I don't want to delid it.

Also can @Madmick or @jefferz provide some info for the optimal air cooling set up, I've currently got 3 large fans sucking in at the front, two fans on my noctua NH-D15 blowing out towards an exhaust fan at the back, I have three fans on the top of the case, sucking air in and blowing it down onto the Mobo and CPU heatsink. What would be the optimal set up for that many fans?

 

[Madmick]

Right now the biggest hurdle AMD have is their single core usage, Intel still beat them out the gate with single core which is a big issue in games like World of Warcraft that don't manage to use more than one core. If every game was optimized for multicore the world would be a brilliant place where AMD and Intel gamers could live in harmony.

Agreed, and that's why they're still rolling in the dough right now. Their profit was up 78% this quarter, but Wall Street feels exactly the same about them in a 3-5 year window as I do. Nobody seems certain how stockholders will benefit in the short term, either, while they enjoy the swan song of their practical dominance in gaming-- just straightforward gaming-- from which all these mountains of money are coming, despite that the Valley & Wall Street has obsessed over VR/AR, self-driving vehicles, crypto, quantum computing, household appliances, a pointless obsession with power draws in an architecture that was doomed to be a runner-up in that category by design, and a million other crystal ball distractions.

It's weird watching an industry worth hundreds of billions of dollars get overlooked because everyone is obsessed with the future of trillions. Consumers don't care. They want to play Fortnite and GTA V. They are willing to spend a lot of money to do this. Yet it's like we don't exist or something the way they talk about tech in the business section of the WSJ.

Also I hit a roadblock with my 4.9ghz OC, We had a very hot winters day (here in Australia that means ambient room temp was 36degree. The heat combined with my OC made it unstable, It was very stable when the room temperature was around 18degree, but with the added temps the CPU was having a hard time staying stable. So I've gone back to stock settings, reapplied my thermalpaste and I'll be testing for the rest of the week.

The other thought I had was it may have been undervolted even at 1.32v and I just managed to hit the perfect storm of crash conditions
Heat
Windows being buggy
Multiple hardware changes over the last year
and gaming for long periods.
I'll miss the 4.9ghz but realistically other than my E-peen its not a huge step up over the 4.6ghz at stock. Just isn't viable seeing as summer is a few months away and that'll already push temps up for the pile of poo that is kabylake. Especially seeing as I don't want to delid it.

Also can @Madmick or @jefferz provide some info for the optimal air cooling set up, I've currently got 3 large fans sucking in at the front, two fans on my noctua NH-D15 blowing out towards an exhaust fan at the back, I have three fans on the top of the case, sucking air in and blowing it down onto the Mobo and CPU heatsink. What would be the optimal set up for that many fans?

It sounds like you may have a major imbalance in air pressure. Positive or negative, the idea is you want to be closer to equality in terms of intake/outtake. If you have 3 large fans for intake in the front, and only one in the back, you may have a problem, especially if the three on top are intaking, and you have none in the bottom exhausting with an elevated chassis. The Noctua are pushing the air in the right direction, but they aren't the port of exhaust.

Jeff is more of a maestro with airflow engineering than myself, especially when it comes to case specifics and potential blockages, including how things like motherboard mounting affect the airflow, so I will defer to him, but that's my first impression.

 

[Woldog]

It sounds like you may have a major imbalance in air pressure. Positive or negative, the idea is you want to be closer to equality in terms of intake/outtake. If you have 3 large fans for intake in the front, and only one in the back, you may have a problem, especially if the three on top are intaking, and you have none in the bottom exhausting with an elevated chassis. The Noctua are pushing the air in the right direction, but they aren't the port of exhaust.

Jeff is more of a maestro with airflow engineering than myself, especially when it comes to case specifics and potential blockages, including how things like motherboard mounting affect the airflow, so I will defer to him, but that's my first impression.

Yeah I'm unsure as to if I should put the motherboard on some spacers to increase airflow behind it.

I have this case, so I may simply just remove the three top fans, or perhaps leave one over the heatsink operating as a second exhaust fan. I feel that the two that sit above/before the CPU cooler may be disrupting the airflow negatively, Originally I had them all operating as exhaust fans, but I believed they may have been sucking the majority of cool air away before it reached the CPU fans.

 

[jefferz]

Right now the biggest hurdle AMD have is their single core usage, Intel still beat them out the gate with single core which is a big issue in games like World of Warcraft that don't manage to use more than one core. If every game was optimized for multicore the world would be a brilliant place where AMD and Intel gamers could live in harmony.

Also I hit a roadblock with my 4.9ghz OC, We had a very hot winters day (here in Australia that means ambient room temp was 36degree. The heat combined with my OC made it unstable, It was very stable when the room temperature was around 18degree, but with the added temps the CPU was having a hard time staying stable. So I've gone back to stock settings, reapplied my thermalpaste and I'll be testing for the rest of the week.

The other thought I had was it may have been undervolted even at 1.32v and I just managed to hit the perfect storm of crash conditions
Heat
Windows being buggy
Multiple hardware changes over the last year
and gaming for long periods.
I'll miss the 4.9ghz but realistically other than my E-peen its not a huge step up over the 4.6ghz at stock. Just isn't viable seeing as summer is a few months away and that'll already push temps up for the pile of poo that is kabylake. Especially seeing as I don't want to delid it.

Also can @Madmick or @jefferz provide some info for the optimal air cooling set up, I've currently got 3 large fans sucking in at the front, two fans on my noctua NH-D15 blowing out towards an exhaust fan at the back, I have three fans on the top of the case, sucking air in and blowing it down onto the Mobo and CPU heatsink. What would be the optimal set up for that many fans?

Your top intake fans aren't really doing anything. You're trying to suck enough air to feed 3 fans through a hole that isn't even 120mm. Take your top panel off and see what your temps are.

Personally I'd do intake on the front, exhaust on the top and back. Set your fan RPM speeds lower on the exhaust.
Raising your mobo in the case won't do a damn thing.

 

[Woldog]

Your top intake fans aren't really doing anything. You're trying to suck enough air to feed 3 fans through a hole that isn't even 120mm. Take your top panel off and see what your temps are.

Personally I'd do intake on the front, exhaust on the top and back. Set your fan RPM speeds lower on the exhaust.
Raising your mobo in the case won't do a damn thing.

Should I stick with having three exhaust fans on the top? or have only one over the CPU heatsink?
Alternatively would it be a reasonable idea to switch to a NZXT Kracken X72 for cooling instead of air cooling? I've always been iffy on water cooling as I don't really want to kill my computer should a leak arise. I've heard of companies replacing components damaged by a AIO cooler failing.

 

[jefferz]

Should I stick with having three exhaust fans on the top? or have only one over the CPU heatsink?
Alternatively would it be a reasonable idea to switch to a NZXT Kracken X72 for cooling instead of air cooling? I've always been iffy on water cooling as I don't really want to kill my computer should a leak arise. I've heard of companies replacing components damaged by a AIO cooler failing.

I’m going to be blunt, I’m not trying to be a dick though.
You’re at the point that you have more than ample cooling. You’re either doing something wrong or you need to bring your ambient temperatures down.
Swapping to an AIO cooler won’t help you.

 

[Madmick]

Seconded. The PM01 is designed for positive airflow at stock, and it performs very well with that setup. Ensure that rear exhaust fan is spinning at full speed because that's what pulls intake from the front (and more immediately the top) over the key components like the CPU. The back is mesh, too, so the balance in airflow isn't as important (because hot air has plenty of space to run). The chief function of that rear exhaust fan isn't to achieve balance in such a case, but to pull the incoming cool air over the components.

I suppose you could try reversing the airflow from the top, and using it to aid the rear fan in exhausting airflow by pulling cool air intake from the front fans over the components, but that could steal the air before it is pulled out and across the CPU by sucking the intake out before it reaches the CPU since the top fan nearest to the front of the case is closer to the front than the CPU itself (i.e. this wasn't the intention for the case airflow by design). So I don't think that is the problem.

 

[Woldog]

I’m going to be blunt, I’m not trying to be a dick though.
You’re at the point that you have more than ample cooling. You’re either doing something wrong or you need to bring your ambient temperatures down.
Swapping to an AIO cooler won’t help you.

This is how my airflow is currently set up. Taking into account what Madmick and yourself said I may remove the first top fan and possibly the second top fan.

The ambient temperatures is a big issue, I live in Australia, roughly 700km's from the tropic of capricorn, in the summer temps here can get to 45c, I flipped my top fans to be exhaust fans as well, the max temp it got to during Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool was 74c, idle it sits around 31c and playing games it is usually around 45 - 60c which is a bit better than when the fans were blowing down instead of up. I've also done a bit of cable management to clear the path to the Mobo

 

[Madmick]

View attachment 414693
This is how my airflow is currently set up. Taking into account what Madmick and yourself said I may remove the first top fan and possibly the second top fan.

The ambient temperatures is a big issue, I live in Australia, roughly 700km's from the tropic of capricorn, in the summer temps here can get to 45c, I flipped my top fans to be exhaust fans as well, the max temp it got to during Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool was 74c, idle it sits around 31c and playing games it is usually around 45 - 60c which is a bit better than when the fans were blowing down instead of up. I've also done a bit of cable management to clear the path to the Mobo

Wait, so you changed the stock setup? My impression from the GN video was that the top fans are designed to intake air at stock (which didn't really make sense to me, but I don't design cases). My suggestion was to change it to the way you have it...

https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/silverstone-primera-pm01-rgb-review/1/

The front is effectively one giant mesh again, but thankfully SilverStone no longer forces you to unscrew the front panel from inside – it simply pops off with a tug. This is good, as you need to do this in order to access the full-cover dust filter that shields the trio of 140mm intake fans. You'll also have likely noticed the fan guards, and these are SilverStone's FG141 models that incorporate RGB lighting; the fans themselves are not LED models. The intakes are complemented by a single 140mm exhaust fan again. As such, SilverStone is using the same positive pressure airflow design as before whereby air will be forced out through the grilles in the roof panel (neatly hidden along the sides and at the back). This is no bad thing given how well the original PM01 performed.

Yeah, nvm, my suggestion for change is actually the stock setup, I guess. This is the RGB version, but it has the same design.

Reversing the airflow would create an even steeper positive pressure, which theoretically isn't ideal, so I don't know what else to suggest. Have you tried calling Silverstone for a suggestion?

 

[Woldog]

Wait, so you changed the stock setup? My impression from the GN video was that the top fans are designed to intake air at stock (which didn't really make sense to me, but I don't design cases). My suggestion was to change it to the way you have it...

https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cases/silverstone-primera-pm01-rgb-review/1/

Yeah, nvm, my suggestion for change is actually the stock setup, I guess. This is the RGB version, but it has the same design.

Reversing the airflow would create an even steeper positive pressure, which theoretically isn't ideal, so I don't know what else to suggest. Have you tried calling Silverstone for a suggestion?

The only thing I have actively changed is adding three fans to the top of the case, Originally I had them operating as intake fans blowing down onto the CPU Cooler and motherboard, As @jefferz suggested I flipped them into exhaust fans rather than three intake fans as he pointed out they were trying to suck air in through a small top port at the back of the case, So now the air flow goes like this

Three stock intake fans at the front of the case.

Two fans on my CPU Cooler sucking air from the front and pushing it towards the stock exhaust fan at the back.

I have then added 3 exhaust fans on the top of the case where you would put an AIO radiator which suck heat from the heatsink as well as heat that may be rising from the GPU upwards, The desired effect from this is that the air is blown through the front of the case, covering the motherboard and the cool air is sucked through the CPU, while the three fans on the top draw air upwards, across the GPU, CPU and out the top of the case, while the stock exhaust fan sucks the hot air out being blown through the CPU

This is how my airflow is now.

 

[Madmick]

The only thing I have actively changed is adding three fans to the top of the case, Originally I had them operating as intake fans blowing down onto the CPU Cooler and motherboard, As @jefferz suggested I flipped them into exhaust fans rather than three intake fans as he pointed out they were trying to suck air in through a small top port at the back of the case, So now the air flow goes like this

Three stock intake fans at the front of the case.

Two fans on my CPU Cooler sucking air from the front and pushing it towards the stock exhaust fan at the back.

I have then added 3 exhaust fans on the top of the case where you would put an AIO radiator which suck heat from the heatsink as well as heat that may be rising from the GPU upwards, The desired effect from this is that the air is blown through the front of the case, covering the motherboard and the cool air is sucked through the CPU, while the three fans on the top draw air upwards, across the GPU, CPU and out the top of the case, while the stock exhaust fan sucks the hot air out being blown through the CPU

This is how my airflow is now.

Yeah, my intended suggestion was the same as Jefferz's was, previously, I guess. I am not sure what other solution could be related to case fan setup. Perhaps the top fan you installed that is closest to the front of the case should be disabled (top right, here). It's worth giving it a shot. My thought is that it is pulling the air out that the front 3xintake fans are pulling in before they pass over the components, or at least disrupting that front to back airflow current before it reaches the CPU on the motherboard.

Otherwise a thermal paste reapplication is the most sensible troubleshoot before purchasing a liquid cooler.