Sherdog PC Build/Buy Thread, v6: My Power Supply Burned Down My House

[Woldog]

Yeah, my intended suggestion was the same as Jefferz's was, previously, I guess. I am not sure what other solution could be related to case fan setup. Perhaps the top fan you installed that is closest to the front of the case should be disabled (top right, here). It's worth giving it a shot. My thought is that it is pulling the air out that the front 3xintake fans are pulling in before they pass over the components, or at least disrupting that front to back airflow current before it reaches the CPU on the motherboard.

Otherwise a thermal paste reapplication is the most sensible troubleshoot before purchasing a liquid cooler.

Yeah I'll test it with the first top fan disabled tonight. I redid the thermal paste on the weekend using Noctua's thermal paste and was a lot more careful with the reapplication. Thank you for the suggestions

As for liquid cooling, am I right in my understanding that the hotter the ambient temperature the harder it is for the liquid cooling to actually keep the CPU cool? Say it was one of Australia's 45 degree summer days, would liquid cooling have much of an impact in that scenario?

 

[Madmick]

Yeah I'll test it with the first top fan disabled tonight. I redid the thermal paste on the weekend using Noctua's thermal paste and was a lot more careful with the reapplication. Thank you for the suggestions

As for liquid cooling, am I right in my understanding that the hotter the ambient temperature the harder it is for the liquid cooling to actually keep the CPU cool? Say it was one of Australia's 45 degree summer days, would liquid cooling have much of an impact in that scenario?

Yes, ambient temps affect the CPU and the rest of the components either way. The CPU isn't actually submerged in liquid. The difference is that instead of hotter ambient air being blown over the CPU, you have liquid constantly traveling in a loop, and this loop carries it across the metal interfacing between the CPU and this loop (the water block), so that the liquid absorbs the heat being exchanged through the metal. It travels around the loop, cooling as it gains distance from the CPU, and aided most critically by another metal-chamber (the radiator) attached to the fan which helps transfer the heat from the liquid to the air, and expunges that heat from the case. The cooled liquid then returns to the water block. Round and round it goes.

Functionally, the radiator is no different in the liquid cooler than it is in the air cooler. It exists to create more surface area between the metal, an excellent conductor of heat, and the surrounding air that is being pushed out.

But the liquid is subject to ambient temps, and so is the air to which the radiator is transferring that liquid heat. If the air is cooler, it will be hungrier for heat exchange, since that is how thermodynamics works. If the liquid is cooler, then you have a head start. If the CPU and metal in the water block are cooler, then once again you have a head start with less overall heat in the system.

 

[Woldog]

Yes, ambient temps affect the CPU and the rest of the components either way. The CPU isn't actually submerged in liquid. The difference is that instead of hotter ambient air being blown over the CPU, you have liquid constantly traveling in a loop, and this loop carries it across the metal interfacing between the CPU and this loop (the water block), so that the liquid absorbs the heat being exchanged through the metal. It travels around the loop, cooling as it gains distance from the CPU, and aided most critical by another metal-chamber (the radiator) attached to the fan which helps transfer the heat from the liquid to the air, and expunges that heat from the case. The cooled liquid then returns to the water block. Round and round it goes.

Functionally, the radiator is no different in the liquid cooler than it is in the air cooler. It exists to create more surface area between the metal, an excellent conductor of heat, and the surrounding air that is being pushed out.

But the liquid is subject to ambient temps, and so is the air to which the radiator is transferring that liquid heat. If the air is cooler, it will be hungrier for heat exchange, since that is how thermodynamics works. If the liquid is cooler, then you have a head start. If the CPU and metal in the water block are cooler, then once again you have a head start with less overall heat in the system.

What would you say the failure rate is nowdays for liquid cooling? I've always been worried about doing it because of the chance of leakage and damaging other components especially if I didn't notice straight away. I know that the liquid they use is generally non conductive and if you simply remove the components and dry them they generally work without any damage, but then I hear the horror stories of people who've had them seals break and douse the computer while using it, wrecking the mobo and GPU or at least rendering the PCI the GPU was in useless.

 

[Madmick]

What would you say the failure rate is nowdays for liquid cooling? I've always been worried about doing it because of the chance of leakage and damaging other components especially if I didn't notice straight away. I know that the liquid they use is generally non conductive and if you simply remove the components and dry them they generally work without any damage, but then I hear the horror stories of people who've had them seals break and douse the computer while using it, wrecking the mobo and GPU or at least rendering the PCI the GPU was in useless.

That's impossible to know, since people in the real world rarely report it, but I'm with Jeff, and I don't see this as your solution. The AIO liquid coolers are barely stronger than your Noctua. Just lower your clocks. Kaby Lake was notorious for running hot, and not overclocking terribly well without creating heat issues.

Every MHz you are above 4.4 GHz is above the all-core Turbo. You're agonizing over not being able to hold a +500 MHz boost.

Keep in mind that Intel has been more and more aggressively pushing the dynamic overclocking (i.e. Turbo Mode) with each successive generation. Much of this has to do with the increasing sophistication of algorithms to determine when to do this similar to how dynamic compression of music and video encoding have evolved over the past several decades. The newest Core X processors even have the "Super Turbo" aka "Turbo 3.0". This is just more intensely dynamic OCing. The 8700K doesn't ship with a stock cooler because I believe they intended for it to be cooled by coolers like your Noctua. The Turbos are so aggressive it sort of demands these higher-quality coolers to run. They're designed out-of-the-box with "smart" overclocking in mind.

A high-end custom loop from EKWB simply isn't as cost-effective as buying a new Z370 motherboard and an 8700K. The latter will see more effective improvement than the former, and it's about the same price-- possibly cheaper depending on the loop. If you're obsessed with higher frequencies then you should consider paying a premium for one of the pre-binned CPUs with your next purchase to guarantee you "win" the silicon lottery:
https://siliconlottery.com/

It's not worth it, my friend. This is ePeen.

 

[Madmick]

Is there any point from upgrading from a 4.9ghz i7 7700k to a i7 8700k and a new motherboard?

Not really. Price cost isnt worth such a minimal gain in CPU performance.

There is a large gain in cpu performance, the 8700k is ranked 7th and the 7700k is ranked 21st.

For most games there isn’t much difference though because all the gains come from multicore speeds and almost none from single core only benchmarks.

So it definitely is much faster “from a certain point of view”

You're sort of delivering the newspaper to the New York Times, here, bud.

 

[Woldog]

That's impossible to know, since people in the real world rarely report it, but I'm with Jeff, and I don't see this as your solution. The AIO liquid coolers are barely stronger than your Noctua. Just lower your clocks. Kaby Lake was notorious for running hot, and not overclocking terribly well without creating heat issues.

Every MHz you are above 4.4 GHz is above the all-core Turbo. You're agonizing over not being able to hold a +500 MHz boost.

Keep in mind that Intel has been more and more aggressively pushing the dynamic overclocking (i.e. Turbo Mode) with each successive generation. Much of this has to do with the increasing sophistication of algorithms to determine when to do this similar to how dynamic compression of music and video encoding have evolved over the past several decades. The newest Core X processors even have the "Super Turbo" aka "Turbo 3.0". This is just more intensely dynamic OCing. The 8700K doesn't ship with a stock cooler because I believe they intended for it to be cooled by coolers like your Noctua. The Turbos are so aggressive it sort of demands these higher-quality coolers to run. They're designed out-of-the-box with "smart" overclocking in mind.

A high-end custom loop from EKWB simply isn't as cost-effective as buying a new Z370 motherboard and an 8700K. The latter will see more effective improvement than the former, and it's about the same price-- possibly cheaper depending on the loop. If you're are obsessed with higher frequencies then you should consider paying a premium for one of the pre-binned CPUs with your next purchase to guarantee you "win" the silicon lottery:
https://siliconlottery.com/

It's not worth it, my friend. This is ePeen.

That's understandable. I've since lowered my clock back to 4.7ghz and all is running smoothly, I'm more concerned about Kaby Lake during the summer, I'll do some tinkering with my fan set up tonight and hopefully that'll be the last anyone hears of my CPU cooling

Edit: I removed the first top fan and my cooling has gone from max 78c to 70c. but that's just spikes during a wow battleground I was averaging about 55c so I'm fine with that

 

[Cygnus A]

Here are some updates on my new build. I dislike the route Intel is going these days so I am giving AMD a new chance. I always root for the underdog, and this time I think they deserve the chance.

Specs:
New Parts:
Ryzen 2600X
ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 ITX
Crucial MX500 1TB 3D NAND SATA M.2
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz
Phanteks Eclipse P400 Steel ATX Mid Tower

Reused Parts:
2x Samsung EVO 500GB SSDs
Zotac 980 TI Amp Extreme
EVGA 750W Modular GPU (forget which model)

I am using a mid tower case for now since my behemoth GPU will not fit any ITX case that I like. When the next gen GPUs are launched, I will reassess the situation but my ultimate goals is to shrink everything to ITX size (NCASE M1, or similar)

Thoughts:

Performance is great. All of the games I play right now are hitting over 100FPS so my Acer predator (3440x1440) is maxed out on frame rate (Fortnite, DOTA, Quake Champions all on Epic/Ultra settings). Thus no need to upgrade my GPU yet . I do need to load up Witcher 3 to see where things are. I was in the 60 FPS range on that game with my I7. Games are smoother than with my overclocked i7-4790k , and temps are way lower. Previously it felt like a heater was under my desk (no fun in the hot Arizona summer).

I had a some issues with the RAM. Apparently 3000mhz is considered overclocked, even though the RAM is rated at that speed. Ryzen is picky and will not run it this fast stable. I get BSODs in some games so I had to turn the RAM speed down a bit, but didn't notice any performance hits. I threw away the box so I cant return the RAM. Oh well. I will use it for my kid's build and buy me something nicer.

Almost everyone agrees there is not a large benefit to overclocking the new Ryzen chips. The autoboost in them is simply amazing, and I find the chip maxing out boost anytime it is under load. I don't feel like the hassle of trying to squeeze out another 100MHz when performance is already amazing.

Feel free to ask any questions or criticize my build.

 

[Woldog]

Here are some updates on my new build. I dislike the route Intel is going these days so I am giving AMD a new chance. I always root for the underdog, and this time I think they deserve the chance.

Specs:
New Parts:
Ryzen 2600X
ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 ITX
Crucial MX500 1TB 3D NAND SATA M.2
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz
Phanteks Eclipse P400 Steel ATX Mid Tower

Reused Parts:
2x Samsung EVO 500GB SSDs
Zotac 980 TI Amp Extreme
EVGA 750W Modular GPU (forget which model)

I am using a mid tower case for now since my behemoth GPU will not fit any ITX case that I like. When the next gen GPUs are launched, I will reassess the situation but my ultimate goals is to shrink everything to ITX size (NCASE M1, or similar)

Thoughts:

Performance is great. All of the games I play right now are hitting over 100FPS so my Acer predator (3440x1440) is maxed out on frame rate (Fortnite, DOTA, Quake Champions all on Epic/Ultra settings). Thus no need to upgrade my GPU yet . I do need to load up Witcher 3 to see where things are. I was in the 60 FPS range on that game with my I7. Games are smoother than with my overclocked i7-4790k , and temps are way lower. Previously it felt like a heater was under my desk (no fun in the hot Arizona summer).

I had a some issues with the RAM. Apparently 3000mhz is considered overclocked, even though the RAM is rated at that speed. Ryzen is picky and will not run it this fast stable. I get BSODs in some games so I had to turn the RAM speed down a bit, but didn't notice any performance hits. I threw away the box so I cant return the RAM. Oh well. I will use it for my kid's build and buy me something nicer.

Almost everyone agrees there is not a large benefit to overclocking the new Ryzen chips. The autoboost in them is simply amazing, and I find the chip maxing out boost anytime it is under load. I don't feel like the hassle of trying to squeeze out another 100MHz when performance is already amazing.

Feel free to ask any questions or criticize my build.

Two questions, the 980ti where would it sit if you put it up against the 10 series? and do you know why AMD is having such a tough time with ram speeds? A few friends have built Ryzen systems and had a fair amount of trouble getting their ram to work at rated speeds.

 

[Cygnus A]

Two questions, the 980ti where would it sit if you put it up against the 10 series? and do you know why AMD is having such a tough time with ram speeds? A few friends have built Ryzen systems and had a fair amount of trouble getting their ram to work at rated speeds.

I have the Zotac Amp Extreme which is a fair amount faster than a sock 980ti. Based on benchmarks, the 980ti sits between a 1070 and 1080. I have no idea why Ryzen is so sensitive to RAM. I believe it has something to do with how the CPU addresses memory, but without digging in, I couldn't really tell you.

 

[Woldog]

I have the Zotac Amp Extreme which is a fair amount faster than a sock 980ti. Based on benchmarks, the 980ti sits between a 1070 and 1080. I have no idea why Ryzen is so sensitive to RAM. I believe it has something to do with how the CPU addresses memory, but without digging in, I couldn't really tell you.

Makes me wonder if AMD is planning to create a new form factor of ram specifically for the Ryzen

 

[90 50]

Two questions, the 980ti where would it sit if you put it up against the 10 series? and do you know why AMD is having such a tough time with ram speeds? A few friends have built Ryzen systems and had a fair amount of trouble getting their ram to work at rated speeds.

About equal to a 1070 performance wise, slower than a 1070 ti

But eats way more power.

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-980-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1070/3439vs3609

 

[jefferz]

Makes me wonder if AMD is planning to create a new form factor of ram specifically for the Ryzen

No.

 

[jefferz]

Here are some updates on my new build. I dislike the route Intel is going these days so I am giving AMD a new chance. I always root for the underdog, and this time I think they deserve the chance.

Specs:
New Parts:
Ryzen 2600X
ASRock Fatal1ty AB350 ITX
Crucial MX500 1TB 3D NAND SATA M.2
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz
Phanteks Eclipse P400 Steel ATX Mid Tower

Reused Parts:
2x Samsung EVO 500GB SSDs
Zotac 980 TI Amp Extreme
EVGA 750W Modular GPU (forget which model)

I am using a mid tower case for now since my behemoth GPU will not fit any ITX case that I like. When the next gen GPUs are launched, I will reassess the situation but my ultimate goals is to shrink everything to ITX size (NCASE M1, or similar)

Thoughts:

Performance is great. All of the games I play right now are hitting over 100FPS so my Acer predator (3440x1440) is maxed out on frame rate (Fortnite, DOTA, Quake Champions all on Epic/Ultra settings). Thus no need to upgrade my GPU yet . I do need to load up Witcher 3 to see where things are. I was in the 60 FPS range on that game with my I7. Games are smoother than with my overclocked i7-4790k , and temps are way lower. Previously it felt like a heater was under my desk (no fun in the hot Arizona summer).

I had a some issues with the RAM. Apparently 3000mhz is considered overclocked, even though the RAM is rated at that speed. Ryzen is picky and will not run it this fast stable. I get BSODs in some games so I had to turn the RAM speed down a bit, but didn't notice any performance hits. I threw away the box so I cant return the RAM. Oh well. I will use it for my kid's build and buy me something nicer.

Almost everyone agrees there is not a large benefit to overclocking the new Ryzen chips. The autoboost in them is simply amazing, and I find the chip maxing out boost anytime it is under load. I don't feel like the hassle of trying to squeeze out another 100MHz when performance is already amazing.

Feel free to ask any questions or criticize my build.

What were your thoughts on the P400? Anything stand out? Any complaints?

 

[Cygnus A]

What were your thoughts on the P400? Anything stand out? Any complaints?

It is clean and simple. It only comes with 2 fans (1 front, 1 back), but it was relatively cheap (~$75). I didn't want to spend a lot since this case will be temporary. I did get the tempered glass version, and the glass is heavy and nice. There is a ton of room inside it for fans/liquid/drives, etc.. There are 2 3.5 inch drive bays, and 2 SSD drive slots on the back side, so all of the drives and cables are hidden.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

OK. Story time.

I just built a new PC (minus GPU/PSU/CASE). I've been having some problems lately and not sure where they were stemming from. It could have been software for all I know. I trouble shot the best I could, but before I could get around to doing a fresh OS install, my system decided to stop powering up..

I took my system apart and put it back together, and it still wouldn't power up. The next morning it booted without issue. OK. WTF ? I left it, but then later that day it black screened and I had to power cycle the PSU. Again, it would not boot. Several hours later it turned on with a simple press of the power button.

By this time, i had narrowed it down to a hardware failure. I knew it wasn't the PSU because I pulled one from another system as a test with the same result.

It's a 3 yr old system by this point, so I sucked it up and purchased new hardware. I didnt want to buy a GPU since we are likely on the verge of next gen hardware from Nvidia. I also want to go mITX so I did not buy a new case. I will get a case and GPU when the next gen comes out.

Anyways, my parts arrived the next day so I spent a few hours gutting my case and installing the new system. Guess what? It didn't boot. Now I had to figure out WTF was going on. Either one of the new components was bad or something in the case. Again I rip everything out and put only the base hardware needed to boot: MOBO/CPU/RAM/PSU . System does not boot. FUCK MY LIFE.

On a hunch, I yank the power button from another case and hook it up. The system boots immediately.

So long story short, I spent $800 when I could have spent few bucks for a new power switch.

You sicken me.


My PC is still running strong (built it in... 2012? Maybe 2013 - i5 CPU). I basically gauge my lifespan of a system by the only thing i use it for - photo editing - and it's beginning to lag on saves and such. I'm usually running 2GB+ files.

Also, part of the issue is that I installed windows 7 Home, and it limits your RAM at 16GB, which is fucking lame, as I have like 32 installed but didn't realize the OS limiter when I did so.

 

[90 50]

You sicken me.


My PC is still running strong (built it in... 2012? Maybe 2013 - i5 CPU). I basically gauge my lifespan of a system by the only thing i use it for - photo editing - and it's beginning to lag on saves and such. I'm usually running 2GB+ files.

Also, part of the issue is that I installed windows 7 Home, and it limits your RAM at 16GB, which is fucking lame, as I have like 32 installed but didn't realize the OS limiter when I did so.

Have you tried this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/helpde...unt-of-memory-usable-by-windows-7-64-bit/amp/

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Have you tried this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/helpde...unt-of-memory-usable-by-windows-7-64-bit/amp/

Thanks, yeah, I actually have seen that before. Those solutions don't do anything. I, for instance, have Windows 7 Home Premium, which limits you at 16 GB of RAM. It isn't that the computer is somehow not seeing the memory - it does - Windows OS simply isn't designed to use more than 16. Changing the maximum memory under your boot configuration doesn't do anything to change it. They basically just want you to buy the Pro version, which I would have done so, had I even known of the difference.

At this point, I'll need a new rig in a few years anyway, so I'll just suffer through my laborious process times in photoshop.

 

[90 50]

Thanks, yeah, I actually have seen that before. Those solutions don't do anything. I, for instance, have Windows 7 Home Premium, which limits you at 16 GB of RAM. It isn't that the computer is somehow not seeing the memory - it does - Windows OS simply isn't designed to use more than 16. Changing the maximum memory under your boot configuration doesn't do anything to change it. They basically just want you to buy the Pro version, which I would have done so, had I even known of the difference.

At this point, I'll need a new rig in a few years anyway, so I'll just suffer through my laborious process times in photoshop.

You could try throwing a cheap 10 key in it, I haven’t done this yet and have been thinking about it.

Some people seem to have good luck with them.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/720054-windows-10-kinguin-key/

 

[CerebralKnievel]

You could try throwing a cheap 10 key in it, I haven’t done this yet and have been thinking about it.

Some people seem to have good luck with them.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/720054-windows-10-kinguin-key/

That level of workaround unnerves me. ;D

 

[Cygnus A]

You sicken me.


My PC is still running strong (built it in... 2012? Maybe 2013 - i5 CPU). I basically gauge my lifespan of a system by the only thing i use it for - photo editing - and it's beginning to lag on saves and such. I'm usually running 2GB+ files.

Also, part of the issue is that I installed windows 7 Home, and it limits your RAM at 16GB, which is fucking lame, as I have like 32 installed but didn't realize the OS limiter when I did so.

2012? Time for a new build. My old one is going to the bedroom when the next gen GPUs come out.