Sherdog's Top 10 NBA Players of All Time

Buck Swope said:
These "best" threads.....so subjective........There have been so many great players.

Great players now? Playing now. Lebron has that as clunky as he is.

Curry Durant Westbrook Harden WTF ever.
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Well articulated
 
gspieler said:
This isn't a Kobe vs Gasol thread. This a Kobe vs other ATG's thread. And Kobe never did anything of note in the absence of Shaq or Gasol.
Dirk won a title with Jason Terry and Devin Harris. 20 yr old Lebron with Iglauskus went to the finals. Hakeem won back-to-back with Vernon Maxwell and Big Shot Bob. He is an ATG, but Kobe is easily the most overrated player on these boards. No way you swap him for those guys and get the same results.
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Yup, Dirk won vs LeBron, Wad and Bish... AKA LEROIDS IS OVERRATED!!

LeBron got slaughtered in the Finals at 20 yrs old and got there being in the easy ass lEast. OVERRATED!!

Hakeem only won with Vernon Maxwell and Robert Horry? Wow....... you sure?

This is getting desperate guys. I get it, you hate Kobe and his success on one of the greatest Franchises of all time. It sucks for you that people like me got to enjoy all those winning seasons and championships (damn we had some killer parties).

Envy is not a good look.
 
Palis said:
Yup, Dirk won vs LeBron, Wad and Bish... AKA LEROIDS IS OVERRATED!!

LeBron got slaughtered in the Finals at 20 yrs old and got there being in the easy ass lEast. OVERRATED!!

Hakeem only won with Vernon Maxwell and Robert Horry? Wow....... you sure?

This is getting desperate guys. I get it, you hate Kobe and his success on one of the greatest Franchises of all time. It sucks for you that people like me got to enjoy all those winning seasons and championships (damn we had some killer parties).

Envy is not a good look.
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I don't hate Koby. I acknowledge him as an ATG, and one of the best of his era. I just think in a discussion such as this one, it's fair to point out that he never carried a team to the finals, let alone a ring. Especially if we're gonna shit over a guy like Gasol, who was clearly the missing piece IMO.
 
gspieler said:
This isn't a Kobe vs Gasol thread. This a Kobe vs other ATG's thread. And Kobe never did anything of note in the absence of Shaq or Gasol.
Dirk won a title with Jason Terry and Devin Harris. 20 yr old Lebron with Iglauskus went to the finals. Hakeem won back-to-back with Vernon Maxwell and Big Shot Bob. He is an ATG, but Kobe is easily the most overrated player on these boards. No way you swap him for those guys and get the same results.
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the "never won without so and so" argument is logically bankrupt. you can apply the argument to every single player in history: what has jordan won without pippen? lebron without wade and irving? bird without mchale? magic without kareem? not only that, but oftentimes the reverse holds true as well - what did pippen win without jordan? mchale without bird? it's a dumb argument that doesn't actually mean anything

also your examples are either wrong or flatout misleading. lebron was 22 when he made his first finals appearance, not 20 (true was a champion at age 21). dirk had a little more than jason terry and devin harris - you fail to mention dpoy (2012) tyson chandler, shawn marion, and jason kidd. you also fail to mention the best teammate hakeem had during the repeat season, and the player who happened to lead the team in those playoffs in win shares (if you're into that sort of thing) - clyde drexler. you're either misinformed or disingenuous
 
Here is mine.

1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Magic
4) Wilt
5) Russell
6) Kobe
7) Lebron
8) Duncan
9) Shaq
10) Bird
11) Hakeem
12) West
13) Big O
14) Julius Erving
15) Malone
 
I know I'm late to the party here these list are much better than the garbage you get at RealGM and Inside Hoops.
 
Yeah Kobe has multiple votes for #1 player in NBA history. Very credible thread lmao
 
The One True said:
the "never won without so and so" argument is logically bankrupt. you can apply the argument to every single player in history: what has jordan won without pippen? lebron without wade and irving? bird without mchale? magic without kareem? not only that, but oftentimes the reverse holds true as well - what did pippen win without jordan? mchale without bird? it's a dumb argument that doesn't actually mean anything

also your examples are either wrong or flatout misleading. lebron was 22 when he made his first finals appearance, not 20 (true was a champion at age 21). dirk had a little more than jason terry and devin harris - you fail to mention dpoy (2012) tyson chandler, shawn marion, and jason kidd. you also fail to mention the best teammate hakeem had during the repeat season, and the player who happened to lead the team in those playoffs in win shares (if you're into that sort of thing) - clyde drexler. you're either misinformed or disingenuous
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Shaq was the premiere player of the late 90's-early 00's. Any team you stuck him on was an instant contender. Remove him from the championship years, the Lakes might not make the yoffs. When Gasol got there, they went from on the yoff bubble to championship caliber overnight.

Likewise, there's no role player you could remove from '94 Rockets, '06/'11 Mavs, '06 Cavs, where those teams aren't still contenders. The Lakes were never contenders the years between Shaq and Gasol.

The point isn't that Kobe isn't great; its that he has a lot of fanboys, most who slightly overrate him.
 
gspieler said:
Shaq was the premiere player of the late 90's-early 00's. Any team you stuck him on was an instant contender. Remove him from the championship years, the Lakes might not make the yoffs. When Gasol got there, they went from on the yoff bubble to championship caliber overnight.

Likewise, there's no role player you could remove from '94 Rockets, '06/'11 Mavs, '06 Cavs, where those teams aren't still contenders. The Lakes were never contenders the years between Shaq and Gasol.
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shaq was not a one man show at any point in his career. he had a solid group of talent around him in orlando that fit his style - penny, grant, anderson, 3d, skiles, etc. prior to true's emergence, he made one finals appearance in which he was swept, and was also swept in 98 and 99

by my definition, making the playoffs without a legitimate chance of winning does not make for a contender. the majority of the league makes the playoffs. as for how the lakers would have fared without shaq, all of that is meaningless conjecture. they wouldn't have gotten by portland in 2000 without true let alone managed a threepeat

for the record, 2011 mavs don't win without jason terry outscoring lebron over the course of the series. 06 mavs don't make it past the spurs in round 2 without either terry or howard. you can't just outright remove 16-20 ppg key pieces to a team without replacing them and expect the same results. that makes absolutely no sense
 
The One True said:
shaq was not a one man show at any point in his career. he had a solid group of talent around him in orlando that fit his style - penny, grant, anderson, 3d, skiles, etc. prior to true's emergence, he made one finals appearance in which he was swept, and was also swept in 98 and 99

by my definition, making the playoffs without a legitimate chance of winning does not make for a contender. the majority of the league makes the playoffs. as for how the lakers would have fared without shaq, all of that is meaningless conjecture. they wouldn't have gotten by portland in 2000 without true let alone managed a threepeat

for the record, 2011 mavs don't win without jason terry outscoring lebron over the course of the series. 06 mavs don't make it past the spurs in round 2 without either terry or howard. you can't just outright remove 16-20 ppg key pieces to a team without replacing them and expect the same results. that makes absolutely no sense
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Strawman. No one said it would be the same results, but that they would still be contenders. And most of what you would lose would be filled by other role players. They would be slightly lesser versions of essentially the same team. And it's common knowledge that the threepeat was built around Shaq. Sure, Koby might've been the factor that put them over the top, but it was Shaq's team.
 
1. MJ
2. Magic
3-5. Wilt/KAJ/Bird
6-10Russell/Lebron/Duncan/Shaq

Honorable mentions: Hakeem, Big O, Kobe
 
Lmao @ the people who have Kobe number 1 when he has multiple first round playoff exits and flat out missed the playoffs as well.
 
gspieler said:
Strawman. No one said it would be the same results, but that they would still be contenders. And most of what you would lose would be filled by other role players. They would be slightly lesser versions of essentially the same team. And it's common knowledge that the threepeat was built around Shaq. Sure, Koby might've been the factor that put them over the top, but it was Shaq's team.
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contending for what, exactly? a championship? not in this universe

making the playoffs does not make a team a contender. 16-20 ppg players like drexler and terry cannot be "essentially" replaced by other role players on the roster. they were essential to the success of their teams

yes, it's common knowledge that shaq put up big numbers against the rik smits of the world in the least competitive series of the lakers' threepeat run. however we all know who the most valuable laker was in the pivotal western conference matchups, aka the real finals
 
Revolver said:
Lmao @ the people who have Kobe number 1 when he has multiple first round playoff exits and flat out missed the playoffs as well.
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the player you voted #1 has multiple first round playoff exits and has flat out missed the playoffs as well. you're laughing at yourself essentially
 
The One True said:
the player you voted #1 has multiple first round playoff exits and has flat out missed the playoffs as well. you're laughing at yourself essentially
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Should have included in his prime.
 
The One True said:
contending for what, exactly? a championship? not in this universe

making the playoffs does not make a team a contender. 16-20 ppg players like drexler and terry cannot be "essentially" replaced by other role players on the roster. they were essential to the success of their teams

yes, it's common knowledge that shaq put up big numbers against the rik smits of the world in the least competitive series of the lakers' threepeat run. however we all know who the most valuable laker was in the pivotal western conference matchups, aka the real finals
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02 yoffs, 4th qtr stats
against Spurs: Kobe 9.2 pts on 64% shooting. Shaq 4.5 pts on 29% shooting
against Kings: Kobe 8.6 on 43%, Shaq 5.4 on 31%
Lakers did 4-1 the spurs, but the margins of victory were 6, 10, 2, and 5
we all know how close the 7 game series w/ the Kings was

obviously they don't win w/o Shaq, but they certainly wouldn't have even gotten to the Finals w/o Kobe
 
Revolver said:
Should have included in his prime.
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prime is subjective. jordan fails to meet the criteria for GOAT that you yourself set

three first round exits (twice swept), two times missed the playoffs. had he played in the western conference that true did throughout his career, jordan would have also missed the playoffs his first three years straight (38, 30*, 40 win seasons), bringing his total to five missed playoffs
 
Even mark jord still ranks TRUE over bron lmao.
 
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