Law Should Adulthood (The Rights To Vote, Smoke, Drink, Marry, Enlist, Bear Arms) Be 18 or 21?

[Arkain2K]

Thread Index:

• Michigan legislation would let some 17-year-olds vote in primary elections (June 9, 2022)
  
• 7 states have raised the purchase age for semi-automatic rifles to 21 (June 8, 2022)
  
• Federal Appeals Court rules California's under-21 gun ban Unconstitutional (May 11, 2022)
• Reno's '21 and older' rule for strippers prompts $15M lawsuit over right to work (Dec 19, 2019)
• Congress set to ban tobacco sales to anyone under 21 (Dec 19, 2019)
• Texas raises tobacco age to 21 (Aug 31, 2019)
• Sen. Mitch McConnell wants to raise age to buy tobacco products (May 10, 2019)
• Delaware lawmakers raise age to buy tobacco products to 21 (April 11, 2019)
• CA Governor Jerry Brown signs bill raising age to buy rifles, shotguns to 21 (Sept 28, 2018)
  
• As Massachusetts mulls changing smoking age to 21, questions remain (Jun 15, 2018)
• Florida bill increases the minimum age to buy a firearm to 21 (Mar 10, 2018)
• California bill would raise age for buying rifles, shotguns to 21 (Mar 8, 2018)

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This discrepancy between 18 year old adults and 21 years old adults is getting really ridiculous.

As I have said before, I don't care where the government place the arbitrary mark for legal Adulthood, as long as it's consistent.

You are either legally an Adult, or you're not.

If you are in fact an Adult, you should be afforded ALL the rights reserved for Adults.

Here's a Fun Fact: Federal voting age was originally 21. It was later reduced by the the 26th Amendment down to the age of military enlistment, which is set at 18 courtesy of the Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 during World War II. People argued intensely during the Vietnam War that if you're old enough to shed blood for your country, you're certainly old enough to cast a vote to shape the future of your country. The slogan used by the 26th Amendment campaigners was "Old enough to fight, old enough to vote" , and the public agreed.

Now, the question is: if you are deemed by the government to be old and responsible enough to sign a legal contract, cast your vote to shape your country's future, shed your blood to defend your homeland on the battle fields, and get married and start your own family, why are you NOT old enough to have a toast at your own wedding, to smoke a cigarette during your lunch break, to drink a beer after work, or to own a firearm to defend your family?

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California bill would raise age for buying rifles, shotguns to 21
John Woolfolk | March 8, 2018​

​

Amid heightened attention to gun access since the high school shooting massacre in Florida, three California lawmakers Thursday announced a bill that would raise the age limit for purchasing rifles and shotguns from 18 to 21, the same as for handguns.

“California already wisely mandates that someone be at least 21 years of age to purchase a handgun,” said the bill’s author, Assemblyman Rob Bonta D-Oakland. “It’s time to extend that common-sense law to long guns in order to enhance public safety.”

Supporters of California’s AB 3 said young adults ages 18 to 20 are statistically more likely to commit homicides, arguing they represent 4 percent of the population but commit 17 percent of gun homicides, according to the 2015 FBI Supplementary Homicides Reports.

“Californians under age 21 can’t purchase alcohol, tobacco and other health hazardous items,” Skinner argued. “So why should they be able to buy guns?”

But Paredes countered that if 18-20-year-olds are so irresponsible, then they shouldn’t be allowed to serve in the armed forces or vote.

“If they’re too irresponsible to own a gun, they’re probably too irresponsible to vote, because casting a vote could have life and death impacts,” Paredes said. “The bill authors can’t have it both ways — either 18-20-year-olds are adults and have all the rights all legal adults have, or they’re not.”

Bill supporters noted that some of the worst mass shootings, including Parkland and the 2012 slaughter of 20 pupils and six educators at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., were attributed to youths under age 21.

They added that the military-style “modern sporting rifles” often known as “assault rifles” — civilian semiautomatic versions of the AR-15 and AK-47 automatic weapons used by armed forces around the world — can be particularly deadly.

Pistols, which already have an age 21 limit in California and several other states, tend to be the weapon of choice in murders. According to the FBI’s annual Crime in the United States report, of a total of 13,455 murders in 2015, 9,616 involved firearms. Handguns were involved in 6,447 of those murders, rifles in 252 and shotguns in 269.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/03...ise-age-for-buying-rifles-shotguns-to-21/amp/

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The Unified Theory of Adulthood
By GRANT BOSSE | March 12. 2018​

WHEN DO WE stop being children, and start being adults?

The most common age of majority is 18, but we draw the line at different ages for different purposes.

You can get a driver’s license at 16, if you take Driver’s Ed.

The Legislature is working on a bill to raise the age at which a child can get married, with parental and court permission, from 13 for girls and 14 for boys up to 16.

You can vote, join the Marines, and buy a rifle at age 18. But you can’t buy a beer until you turn 21.

There was a push earlier this year to raise the age at which you can use tobacco from 18 to 21. The New Hampshire Senate tabled that bill.

Florida recently barred adults younger than 21 from purchasing firearms, and several retailers have announced they will stop selling guns to people under age 21. Licensed firearms dealers are already barred from selling handguns to people age 18-20.

One of the most popular provisions of Obamacare allows parents to keep their “children” on their insurance policies up to age 26.

There’s also a movement to lower the voting age to 16.

Columnist Jonah Goldberg last week wrote in USA Today about the folly of delegating our political will to children. He offered the rather obvious fact “that young people are not, as a group, better informed, wiser, smarter or even more enlightened than older people.”

I would argue that we are in fact taking longer to grow up than previous generations. We are stretching adolescence to the brink of 30, while simultaneously pretending that teenagers hold some special wisdom that grown-ups have forgotten.

Perhaps it is time to erase all of these arbitrary age lines, and set a single standard for adulthood. 18. 21. Pick a number. That’s when all of the rights and responsibilities of adulthood would kick in.

If you can drink and smoke, you can vote. If you’re old enough to enlist, you’re old enough to handle a firearm. And if you want to be treated as an adult, you can get a job and buy your own health insurance.

Maybe we should abandon this one-size-fits-all concept of adulthood. There are 14-year-olds mature enough to make informed political decisions, and 40-year-olds who can’t be trusted with car keys and a bottle of whiskey. Age is just a number. Let’s get rid of this outdated calendar-based definition of adulthood and move to a competency-based system.

In “Starship Troopers,” author Robert Heinlein envisioned a society in which citizenship was a reward for military service. Sure, Heinlein was warning of the dangers of militarism, but we have to take new ideas where we can get them.

Some gun controllers want to require gun safety training before your Second Amendment rights kick in, like Driver’s Ed, but for self-defense. Why not extend this simple concept to other aspects of adulthood?

After you take your driving test and qualify as a marksman for rifle and pistol, you would go through a battery of tests to see if you have earned adulthood. Think of it as collecting merit badges, but for basic civil rights.

I’m sure there would be a robust debate over what skills one should master before moving from childhood to adulthood. I’d suggest a few:

Change a flat tire. And a lightbulb. And the batteries in a smoke detector.

Grill a steak to medium-rare.

Cook an omelette. (I’d settle for scrambling eggs without overcooking them.)

Name 70 percent of the state capitals correctly.

Name 67 percent of the branches of the U.S government correctly.

Name 50 percent of New Hampshire’s congressional delegation correctly.

Take the tests as often as you need to. Once you pass them all: Congratulations! You’re an adult. You can smoke and drink and vote to your heart’s content.

If you don’t want to go through all of that hassle, you can stay a child as long as you’d like. We’ll make all of your decisions for you.

Hopefully, the New Hampshire Legislature can put “Peter Pan’s Amendment” on the ballot this fall.

http://www.unionleader.com/grant-bosse-The-Unified-Theory-of-Adulthood_

 

[Prime Rib]

NRA is going to be very busy for awhile now. I know they have deep pockets but raging court wars against multiple states will be expensive.

 

[curryjunkie]

NRA is going to be very busy for awhile now. I know they have deep pockets but raging court wars against multiple states will be expensive.

meh, some rich asshole will bankroll em

 

[ShadowRun]

Seems like a real smart thing to do good job California, who cares about facts and statistics.... just go do something!!!!

 

[Arkain2K]

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Seems like a real smart thing to do good job California, who cares about facts and statistics.... just go do something!!!!

Do "something", even if that something is the wrong thing to do, or will be ineffective.

The American liberal has become the ultimate reactionary.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

Might as well raise the military recruitment age and voting age.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Might as well raise the military recruitment age and voting age.

If they are going to raise the age to purchase a firearm to 21, are they also going to not allow anyone under 21 to enter into contract alone? Will felony convictions no longer apply until after 21 years old?

If these states keep pushing these blatant age discrimination laws, it's going to set up a very winnable "equal protection under the law" challenge.

 

[nostradumbass]

You can't buy tobacco in California until your 21!? The hell is that about?

I don't really have a problem with this since most people are still dependents or students at that age anyway, and I'm assuming the "some exceptions" are for those who aren't and have families and houses. I don't see what Florida's three day waiting period is supposed to accomplish though, except to leave anybody who's received a credible threat defenseless for several days while they wait. I don't think any kind of school shooter or premeditated murderer is going to decide "nevermind" because he had to wait 3 days.

Homeboy probably should have kept his mouth shut with the comparisons to justify, because this kind of leaves the door open to raise the age consent, military recruitment, legal contracts, and a lot of things that are different for "minors".

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

I think they should lower the ages for all weapons.


Why arm the teachers when you can just arm the students?

The students should be issued an AR-15 and three grenades upon enrollment to school.

The good guys with the guns will definitely outnumber the bad guys with the guns.

 

[Trotsky]

Seems like a real smart thing to do good job California, who cares about facts and statistics.... just go do something!!!!

Can you assist me in understanding your point?

Are there facts and statistics that show that restricting access to these weapons by persons 18-20 will have a negative effect?

 

[Voltron]

I think they should lower the ages for all weapons.


Why arm the teachers when you can just arm the students?

The students should be issued an AR-15 and three grenades upon enrollment to school.

The good guys with the guns will definitely outnumber the bad guys with the guns.

 

[uppercutbus]

Aren't some stores getting sued for age discrimination for not selling to under 21?

Dick's and Walmart Are Being Sued for Age Discrimination re Gun Sales
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-for-age-discrimination-re-gun-sales.3724629/

If they are successfully sued then fairs fair.

18 considered being "adult" being backed by law. 21 being adult "when it suits my agenda" isn't good. Use another reason, especially if it will get you sued.

 

[irish_thug]

25. 21 year olds are still dumb as fuck.

 

[The Diplomat]

If an adult is really 21, or later, then should these "children" be driving automobiles?

 

[Byron Carter]

13 to be tried as an adult in a court of law
16 to start driving
17 to enlist (U.S.)
18 to smoke
21 to drink

And don't even get me started on the age of consent laws, romeo and juliet non-sense, etc.

We need to sit down, and decide which age is considered adult - and stick to it. To me, I think it's clearly not higher than 17. If you can enlist in the military at 17, and go fight and die, then you should be considered an adult.

But I'm conflicted on the issue. I was reading an article by Mia Khalifa, the porn star - I think it was on CNN or some shit, where she sat down with Lance Armstrong, and confessed how she wishes she never did porn, and she can't get a boyfriend or a real job, and she's humiliated her family. It was really fucking sad, and almost made me think that the age restriction for DOING porn should be higher. 18 year olds are idiots.

 

[Trotsky]

As I have said before, I don't care where the government place the arbitrary mark for legal Adulthood, as long as it's consistent across the board.

You are either legally an Adult, or you're not. This discrepancies between 18 year old adults and 21 years old adults is ridiculous.

Consistency for the sake of consistency isn't pragmatic, nor is adhering to some acknowledged-artificial line to be mandate on all human capacities.

It makes sense to be able to drive at 16, since motor functions have matured by that point and that's when you become able to work
It makes sense to vote at 18, since intellectual development has matured by that point, and that's when you fly the coop.

Likewise, it makes sense that alcohol and firearms might be restricted until 21 since, despite intellectual and motor function development having mostly filled out, emotional development still has a way to go and doesn't really complete until the late 20s.

There's a really good Missouri Supreme Court case on this topic re why persons under 20 shouldn't be eligible for life without parole since their impulse control isn't anywhere near complete around 18.

 

[Trotsky]

And don't even get me started on the age of consent laws, romeo and juliet non-sense, etc.

For the love of god, no one is getting you started on that topic.

 

[Islam Imamate]

As I have said before, I don't care where the government place the arbitrary mark for legal Adulthood, as long as it's consistent across the board.

You are either legally an Adult, or you're not. This discrepancies between 18 year old adults and 21 years old adults is ridiculous.

I don't think so at all. The legal age is bound to be an arbitrary cut off since everyone develops at different rates so I don't see why we have to invest in it this sacred importance and allow access to all adult privileges and rights at exact time a person has a certain birthday.

Allowing access to voting at 18 but not gun ownership and access to alcohol doesn't seem that crazy to me, young people are still developing their capacity for long term decision making and giving them three more years to get that before allowing them access to something as dangerous as firearms and alcohol makes some sense. I would certainly imagine more people die from firearm and alcohol related causes than from voting related ones.

EDIT: As for the age of an adult, in my mind anything between 15 and 21 depending on the issue at hand is fine with me though I prefer on the older side(18-21).

 

[PEDS Help me Post]

13 to be tried as an adult in a court of law
16 to start driving
17 to enlist (U.S.)
18 to smoke
21 to drink

And don't even get me started on the age of consent laws, romeo and juliet non-sense, etc.

We need to sit down, and decide which age is considered adult - and stick to it. To me, I think it's clearly not higher than 17. If you can enlist in the military at 17, and go fight and die, then you should be considered an adult.

But I'm conflicted on the issue. I was reading an article by Mia Khalifa, the porn star - I think it was on CNN or some shit, where she sat down with Lance Armstrong, and confessed how she wishes she never did porn, and she can't get a boyfriend or a real job, and she's humiliated her family. It was really fucking sad, and almost made me think that the age restriction for DOING porn should be higher. 18 year olds are idiots.

I've worked at a strip club for years in Toronto and when I first worked there I almost served an under-aged dancer by accident because I just assumed she was of drinking age because she worked there. I didn't even really think about it.


It was a bit of an eye-opener to realize that she was deemed old enough to take off her clothes and grind on men's laps at 18 years old but wasn't legally allowed to have a drink while she did it until she was 19. Weird stuff.