Law Should Adulthood (The Rights To Vote, Smoke, Drink, Marry, Enlist, Bear Arms) Be 18 or 21?

[ShadowRun]

People don't mature as fast as they use to. In many western countries people don't move out of home until mid 20's and they're not maturing fast from taking care of 5 siblings and defending the farm when Pa is away.

50 years ago 18 was a man. Today it's a boy.

Yea and at 18 yes they can join the military and fight a war but they are trained a lot and supervised it's not themselves taking care of themselves. I don't care if they raise buying a gun to 21 along as they don't vote until 21, most people can't gamble until 21.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

Yea and at 18 yes they can join the military and fight a war but they are trained a lot and supervised it's not themselves taking care of themselves. I don't care if they raise buying a gun to 21 along as they don't vote until 21, most people can't gamble until 21.

That's the way I see it, I hate the military argument. I'm a service member myself. Being in the military is like living with your parents, you get to do a lot of cool stuff, but they handle some of your responsibilities and sometimes they tell you to do something that you don't want to do, but you have to do it lol. It's much different from navigating the world on your own. It's not like the military lets you take your service weapon home with you either. I never would have joined the military before I obtained a wealth of experience on my own as a civilian.

 

[Madmick]

There's no logical reason for all of the rights and privileges and responsibilities of adulthood to be given at the exact same moment.

Yes, there clearly is, and it was cited in the very OP. If you're old enough to be conscripted and imperiled by your country, then you are old enough to be afforded ALL other rights.

Blurring this line cripples any meaningful attempt to define "adulthood" by the state. If it isn't logical that adulthood is arbitrarily determined, and an individual isn't afforded full rights, then my first move as a criminal facing prosecution would be to point out that it isn't logical to treat me as an adult; that it is by that very definition as fluid as the concept of rights afforded to adulthood itself.

Now you've opened the door to classifying certain crimes as "adult" and others as "juvenile", and specifically the entire range of ages with abridged rights to apply to criminal treatment as well. Here comes that retarded calamity known as the "Insanity Defense" all over again; one of the worst legal precedents in American history.

 

[oldshadow]

That's the way I see it, I hate the military argument. I'm a service member myself. Being in the military is like living with your parents, you get to do a lot of cool stuff, but they handle some of your responsibilities and sometimes they tell you to do something that you don't want to do, but you have to do it lol. It's much different from navigating the world on your own. It's not like the military lets you take your service weapon home with you either. I never would have joined the military before I obtained a wealth of experience on my own as a civilian.

It not that you should not be able to join at 18 it's you should need your parents permission to join.

Like you can shoot a hand gun under 21 but you have to have adult supervision.

You can stil drive at 16 but you would need and be controlled by your parents until you are an adult at 21.

Of course the vote would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 26th.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

It not that you should not be able to join at 18 it's you should need your parents permission to join.

Like you can shoot a hand gun under 21 but you have to have adult supervision.

You can stil drive at 16 but you would need and be controlled by your parents until you are an adult at 21.

Of course the vote would require a constitutional amendment to repeal the 26th.

Agreed. And I know that it sucks for teenagers that don't have stable families to hold their firearms for them but I'm willing to deal with that as collateral damage.

 

[usmctanker242]

It's our culture... humans spend the first 20 years of their lives being told they're too young to do things, but society also wants them to grow up and get their shit together at the same time. When you treat grown humans like children they're going to act in that manner. When we keep pushing the age of adulthood further and further these child-adults are just becoming more confused.

My big question is this : so some dipshit in Florida shoots up a school, and now 18 year old fathers in California aren't allowed to utilize firearms to protect their families? No pistol, rifle, or shotgun... will they start banning crossbows if there's an incident with those? Again, this law only hurts the law abiding citizens and will do nothing to deter criminals. I can't believe people are dumb enough to fall for this shit.

 

[Prutfis]

18 is fine with me. Here that´s the age for voting, drinking and driving. If you can do those 3 you are an "adult"

 

[CWMMA]

13 to be tried as an adult in a court of law
16 to start driving
17 to enlist (U.S.)
18 to smoke
21 to drink

And don't even get me started on the age of consent laws, romeo and juliet non-sense, etc.

We need to sit down, and decide which age is considered adult - and stick to it. To me, I think it's clearly not higher than 17. If you can enlist in the military at 17, and go fight and die, then you should be considered an adult.

It’s 18 to enlist in the military without parental consent.

If you can enlist and vote at 18. You should be able to do everything else. Shit is silly.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Age shouldn't be the deciding factor. You should have to take some kind of aptitude test to enter adulthood. There are just as 30 year old children out there as there are 16 year old adults.

 

[Fawlty]

Yes, there clearly is, and it was cited in the very OP. If you're old enough to be conscripted and imperiled by your country, then you are old enough to be afforded ALL other rights.

Blurring this line cripples any meaningful attempt to define "adulthood" by the state. If it isn't logical that adulthood is arbitrarily determined, and an individual isn't afforded full rights, then my first move as a criminal facing prosecution would be to point out that it isn't logical to treat me as an adult; that it is by that very definition as fluid as the concept of rights afforded to adulthood itself.

Now you've opened the door to classifying certain crimes as "adult" and others as "juvenile", and specifically the entire range of ages with abridged rights to apply to criminal treatment as well. Here comes that retarded calamity known as the "Insanity Defense" all over again; one of the worst legal precedents in American history.

Let's raise the driving age to 21. I bet the kids will dig it!

It's unsound to draw an even bolder arbitrary line in response to situations that require nuance. Drinking age, gun buying age, voting age, driving age, military age, etc. That doesn't prevent states from prosecuting all 18-year-olds as "adults" if that's the best way to handle criminal justice for 18-year-olds.

 

[Oeshon]

For those saying 18 is now too young and want it pushed up to 21.... consider this angle.

Should a 20 year old who murders multiple people like the florida school shooter be tried as a juvenile?

Cant have it both ways. You are either a legally responsible adult or you are a child.

 

[cincymma79]

There’s a good argument for 25 if we’re trying to use data and not graduate d high school

 

[Fedorable]

Here's the breakdown, Sherbros.

Sexual consent: 14
Voting: 18
Buy handguns/semi-autos: 21
Rent a car: 25

It should all be the same age in my opinion and it starts with the military.
Keeping 18 year olds idle for 3 years waiting for the military seems like a bad idea.

Is the rent a car thing in law or just a car company policy?

we're keeping our kids in arrested development. Some people say 25, but then in 20 years it will be 30.

Beers, guns and pussy are different.
Holy shit, I'm a big Zevon fan. Beers, guns and pussy.

you're just an excitable boy.

 

[HockeyBjj]

I’d be happy just so long as all the adult milestones were consistent. Drinking, smoking, buying a gun, serving the country, take hormones to change your body, get married, sign your own responsibility forms, vote, etc.

 

[Deleted member 409801]

I was having an adult conversation with someone that had nothing to do with taking sides. Did you have to quip in with a pointless partisan platitude?

Taken in context with your consideration of the + 65 age group being " the worst voters ever" , I'd say its not a stretch to assume you have an agenda.

I know I know......its an objective observation , so totally not partisan!

 

[Arkain2K]

Is the rent a car thing in law or just a car company policy?

Car rental is a private service, not a protected right enshrined in the Constitution, so car rental companies are free to set their own pricing policies, as long as it's not arbitrarily discriminatory.

But why 25? Well, here's the rub:

Once upon a time, insurance companies got together to comb over public accidents statistics and discovered that the vast majority of dumb-ass accidents involved drivers under 25 years old, so they decided that drivers 25 and over should get the best insurance rates.

This decision directly lead to car rental companies offering 25 year olds the "normal" rental prices, and that's the demographic they specifically caters to.

For the record, the vast majority of car rental companies today still offer rental to people between 21-24. They just don't go around trumpetting that service. A few of them even provide their service to 18-20 year olds.

The kicker here is that these young drivers under 25 will have to swallow the daily "Young Renter" surcharge fee, which often bring the total cost to doubles the "normal" rates, to cover for all the accidents and damages that younger drivers are notorious for.

It's all about business economics here, and it will continue to be that way as long as people under 25 kept getting into car accidents at much higher rates than people over 25.

 

[Gangsters_Paradise]

You can't define an adult with a number in terms of psychology which is more important than physical growth when it comes to issues dealing with psychological maturity. You can be 40 and still be as mentally mature as a child or you can be 10 working hard labor all your life taking care of your family and have the mental maturity of a hard working adult. It's all dependant on how and where you were raised.

Just because you have to be 21 to buy a gun doesn't mean jack shit in reality.

 

[Raiman]

Honestly I don't see the issue in raising the age of adult to 21. From driving to voting or even serving in the Military. The maturity that comes in just those 3 years is immeasurable.

 

[Madmick]

Let's raise the driving age to 21. I bet the kids will dig it!

It's unsound to draw an even bolder arbitrary line in response to situations that require nuance. Drinking age, gun buying age, voting age, driving age, military age, etc. That doesn't prevent states from prosecuting all 18-year-olds as "adults" if that's the best way to handle criminal justice for 18-year-olds.

There isn't even an attempt at a rebuttal, here.

For those saying 18 is now too young and want it pushed up to 21.... consider this angle.

Should a 20 year old who murders multiple people like the florida school shooter be tried as a juvenile?

Cant have it both ways. You are either a legally responsible adult or you are a child.

Precisely. Identical argument to what I just forwarded above voiced more succinctly.

 

[Oeshon]

There’s a good argument for 25 if we’re trying to use data and not graduate d high school

Same as my other post.

Should a 24 year old man who commits murder be tried as a juvenile and given a lenient sentence and sent to a juvenile prison, then be able to later have it expunged/sealed?