Should alcohol be illegal?

[superpunch]

Drugs are already used openly.

Not as openly as they are after legalization.

I've lived in states where pot's legal. I've lived in states where it's illegal. I've also lived in a state before it was legal and after it was legal. The difference of its public use, obvious public intoxication, and its culture in public sight before and after legalization is night and day.

Legalize hard drugs and bums will start shooting up in public instead of their tents or they will more often go to public bathrooms and leave needles behind and blood spurts on the bathroom floor. Evidence: in pot-legal states, you see blunt wraps, marijuana product packages, and used paraphernalia littered in the streets everywhere.

They'll feel more emboldened to walk around public malls, streets, and restaurants without worrying about getting arrested for obvious heroin intoxication. Evidence: in pot-legal states, you will smell smoked marijuana everywhere -- malls, bathrooms, walking around in public, sitting down to eat in an expensive restaurant from the table next to you, etc. all day every day.

They'll feel less self-conscious about hanging around in groups of obvious drug users (whereas before they'd be worried about getting stopped + searched for drug possession doing this) in public.

Businesses will feel more free to cater to these people or make innuendos in their advertisements to them. Etc.

It's just not something that most people think about with drug legalization or decriminalization. However, it's the worst part of drug legalization or decriminalization for the normal citizen.

 

[Denter]

I would rather we take a logical approach to dealing with addction, rather than a "just say no", head in sand one. Vice will never go away, no matter how hard we try to clamp diwn. We have proof that there are better ways to dealing with it then prohibition.

 

[Rod1]

Not as openly as they are after legalization.

I've lived in states where pot's legal. I've lived in states where it's illegal. I've also lived in a state before it was legal and after it was legal. The difference of its public use, obvious public intoxication, and its culture in public sight before and after legalization is night and day.

Legalize hard drugs and bums will start shooting up in public instead of their tents or they will more often go to public bathrooms and leave needles behind and blood spurts on the bathroom floor.

They'll feel more emboldened to walk around public malls, streets, and restaurants without worrying about getting arrested for obvious heroin intoxication.

They'll feel less self-conscious about hanging around in groups of obvious drug users (whereas before they'd be worried about getting stopped + searched for drug possession doing this) in public.

Businesses will feel more free to cater to these people or make innuendos in their advertisements to them. Etc.

It's just not something that most people think about with drug legalization or decriminalization. However, it's the worst part of drug legalization or decriminalization for the normal citizen.

Try going to the mall while intoxicated and see what happens.

Legalizing drugs doesnt means legalizing its public use.

 

[superpunch]

Try going to the mall while intoxicated and see what happens.

Legalizing drugs doesnt means legalizing its public use.

Public use of and intoxication on marijuana is illegal in states where its possession, sale, and private use is legal. The difference is that after legalization, people do it anyways in much more bold ways than they did before. I've seen this happen.

Legalize heroin and its public use of it and intoxication on it will still be illegal. However, the culture and attitude towards it will change. People will be emboldened by its legalization and do it anyways.

 

[Cygnus A]

Its addiction potential, list of diseases it causes, number of people it kills both through disease and other ways, suffering in people it doesn't kill, etc. is unbelievable.

We ban other drugs. Why not alcohol?

Failed American History, I see.

 

[Rod1]

Public use of and intoxication on marijuana is illegal in states where its possession, sale, and private use is legal. The difference is that after legalization, people do it anyways in much more bold ways than they did before. I've seen this happen.

1.- So? thats a problem with public enforcement, and quite frankly its not a cause-effect. Mariguana became legal because it became socially more acceptable not the inverse.

2.- Glue is perfectly legal, go to the mall and huff glue and see how people react to you.

 

[superpunch]

1.- So? thats a problem with public enforcement, and quite frankly its not a cause-effect. Mariguana became legal because it became socially more acceptable not the inverse.

2.- Glue is perfectly legal, go to the mall and huff glue and see how people react to you.

The difference is -- you don't do it when a drug is illegal because a possession charge will ruin your life. After a drug is legal? Worst thing that can happen is a $50 fine and it will probably get thrown out of court anyways. No one gives a shit and they do their drugs in public all they want.

Then there's proving that someone's intoxicated, testing them, it's just an enforcement headache for nothing of value. That's why cops don't enforce public intoxication laws except for the worst of cases right now.

Saying that these problems can be solved by enforcement of public intoxication laws is ridiculous.

It's just a fact. Legalize drugs and the culture changes. You know how you see alcohol present in society? You will begin to see that legalized drug present in society as well. Pot is one thing. I'd rather it not be publicly visible but I can live with it. Harder drugs getting that status is.. just terrible for society.

 

[Rod1]

Worst thing that can happen is a $50 fine

Do you honestly think that the worst thing that can happen when shooting up heroin is a $50 dollars fine?

 

[superpunch]

Do you honestly think that the worst thing that can happen when shooting up heroin is a $50 dollars fine?

No, you can get a heroin possession charge which will ruin your life. Remove that risk and.. people will be shooting up in public or be overtly intoxicated in public all the time.

They'll also be careless about where they leave behind needles and blood spurts because it doesn't matter if they get caught.

The undesirable effects on society go beyond that though. The culture will change.

You know how you see alcohol present in society?

Places that sell it? Advertisements? Innuendo alluding to it? Bottles (paraphernalia) in the street and trash? People talking about it? Streets and parts of town that look different and just have a different cultural vibe because of it?

You will begin to see that legalized drug present in society as well. Pot is one thing. I'd rather it not be publicly visible but I can live with it. Harder drugs getting that status is.. just terrible for society.

 

[Rod1]

No, you can get a heroin possession charge which will ruin your life. Remove that risk and.. people will be shooting up in public or be overtly intoxicated in public all the time.

They'll also be careless about where they leave behind needles and blood spurts because it doesn't matter if they get caught.

The undesirable effects on society go beyond that though. The culture will change.

You know how you see alcohol present in society?

Places that sell it? Advertisements? Innuendo alluding to it? Bottles (paraphernalia) in the street and trash? People talking about it? Streets and parts of town that look different and just have a different cultural vibe because of it?

You will begin to see that legalized drug present in society as well. Pot is one thing. I'd rather it not be publicly visible but I can live with it. Harder drugs getting that status is.. just terrible for society.

Why arent people huffing glue on the malls, why arent glue makers advertising about the wonderful effects of glue sniffing.

 

[superpunch]

Why arent people huffing glue on the malls, why arent glue makers advertising about the wonderful effects of glue sniffing.

I got nothing for you on glue.

I've seen the before/ after in marijuana legalization. This isn't just talking about hypothetically what will happen.

 

[Rod1]

I got nothing for you on glue.

I've seen the before/ after in marijuana legalization. This isn't just talking about hypothetically what will happen.

But you are giving a cause-effect relationship to MJ and its social acceptance.

The social acceptance of MJ has nothing to do with its legal status, but its recognition as a relatively safe drug, which in turn led to its legalization.

 

[superpunch]

But you are giving a cause-effect relationship to MJ and its social acceptance.

The social acceptance of MJ has nothing to do with its legal status, but its recognition as a relatively safe drug, which in turn led to its legalization.

Pre-legalization, you didn't see the brazen use of marijuana in public and intoxication on it in public.

People walk around with large bags of it in plain sight.

People leave empty marijuana flower packages and pre-rolled joint packages in the streets as litter.

People use it much more openly in public. It's not at all uncommon to see someone casually smoking a pipe walking down the street. Or someone smoking their marijuana concentrate vaporizer. You smell it everywhere.

None of this happened pre-legalization.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

No, of course not. That shouldn't be the governments role.
People act like a things legal status determines if people use it or not. It doesn't. It only determines if we put people in cages over it or not. Drinking and driving (putting others at risk) might get you a little time in the cage. Drinking yourself to death should be your prerogative.

 

[Rod1]

Pre-legalization, you didn't see the brazen use of marijuana in public and intoxication on it in public.

People walk around with large bags of it in plain sight.

People leave empty marijuana flower packages and pre-rolled joint packages in the streets as litter.

People use it much more openly in public. It's not at all uncommon to see someone casually smoking a pipe or a bong walking down the street. Or someone smoking their marijuana concentrate vaporizer casually in a restaurant.

None of this happened pre-legalization.

But it was already socially accepted, just illegal.

Your claim is that heroin and other hard drugs are going to become as socially accepted as MJ, that its never going to happen, because those are hard drugs.

MJ isnt a hard drug.

 

[superpunch]

No, of course not. That shouldn't be the governments role.
People act like a things legal status determines if people use it or not. It doesn't. It only determines if we put people in cages over it or not. Drinking and driving (putting others at risk) might get you a little time in the cage. Drinking yourself to death should be your prerogative.

This is absolutely not true.

I know several people who never smoked marijuana pre-legalization. Now, they enjoy it every now and then. I didn't drink when I was under 21. I drank a shitload after my 21st birthday. The overall numbers might be similar but tons of people who didn't use before will use after.

But it goes beyond just use.

It goes into how + where people use and how brazen they are with possession and use. Legalization changes that equation completely. What was previously private now becomes public.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

I don't think it's failing. I think it would be even worse if drugs were legal. You'd have to see them be used openly.

I've lived in a state where pot is legal. It's illegal to smoke in public. Everywhere you go, you still see people smoking in public, smell it in public, smell it in restaurants, see people openly intoxicated on it, etc. It just happens.

Just keeping drugs out of sight, out of mind is a fantastic accomplishment of the drug war.

Let's throw people in jail and ruin lives so you don't have to see people enjoying themselves. Or, we could just not allow it in public places like cigs, but that wouldn't populate the prisons so that's dumb huh

 

[superpunch]

nm

 

[BudKing8806]

We need to keep the young people away from it. So maybe we should make the drinking age limit to 30 then 40 then 50 and eventually a complete ban.

Yea...I'm sure none of us drank before we were legal <45>

 

[Denter]

No, of course not. That shouldn't be the governments role.
People act like a things legal status determines if people use it or not. It doesn't. It only determines if we put people in cages over it or not. Drinking and driving (putting others at risk) might get you a little time in the cage. Drinking yourself to death should be your prerogative.

No man is an island.