So is Felipe Pena best no-gi in the world and Buchecha best gi?

[yetanother]

The reality is, you'll find stalling and exploiting rules(or lack thereof) in any sport.

Stalling allowance makes all the "rule exploits" much bigger issues.

 

[Dogstarman]

I agree, I dont know who would I put money on if I had to bet in a 3rd match, but till pena loses, hes the king.

That’s fair but since that loss, Gordon’s game has changed a ton.

 

[yetanother]

That’s fair but since that loss, Gordon’s game has changed a ton.

Pena kills Gordon is non leglock jiu jitsu, Pena is just too athletic.

 

[Dogstarman]

Pena kills Gordon is non leglock jiu jitsu, Pena is just too athletic.

I would like to see that match up again. Just to see how Gordon has addressed his weakness.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Pena kills Gordon is non leglock jiu jitsu, Pena is just too athletic.

i don't agree. Gordon has that killer smash passing that I think will prove Pena's kryptonite the next time they meet. Recall that Gordon controlled the first half of their ADCC match with his passing, and only lost when the match entered the leg entanglement. Pena, of course, comes from a GB team that has greatly innovated the 50/50 game, so leg attacks are not so much of a weakness

 

[mataleaos]

Pena kills Gordon is non leglock jiu jitsu, Pena is just too athletic.

The catch with this though is Gordon is able to use all 3 of his main positions in ibjjf rules. Ashi, outside ashi, and cross ashi (the saddle) are all legal positions that he can use. He used cross ashi at no gi pans matches to control, sweep, and pass. He doesn't actually heel hook that much anymore. I think he's only had 2 or 3 heel hook wins in the past 2 years.

Pena gave him issues when Gordon released the 2nd leg to try to finish the inside heel hook from cross ashi. I would still pick Pena as a favorite in ibjjf or even adcc rules but if Gordon doesn't attempt to finish a heel hook on Pena we could be looking at a very different outcome.

 

[yetanother]

I think he's only had 2 or 3 heel hook wins in the past 2 years.

The heel hook against Cyborg helped him tremendously in the absolute.
He had a easy win against a guy who could have been a insanely hard fight in IBJJF no-gi.
Beating Cyborg with mediocre wrestling and tons of steroids would have been a lot harder then heel hooking him.
If they meet at the no-gi worlds it will be super interesting to see how it goes.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

The heel hook against Cyborg helped him tremendously in the absolute.
He had a easy win against a guy who could have been a insanely hard fight in IBJJF no-gi.
Beating Cyborg with mediocre wrestling and tons of steroids would have been a lot harder then heel hooking him.
If they meet at the no-gi worlds it will be super interesting to see how it goes.

i don't get why you underrate Gordon so much. If nothing else, a slow but technical guard player like Cyborg is a perfect matchup for a pressure-passing, strong finisher like Gordon Ryan. You need to be fast and sturdy, with good escapes like Pena and Vinny to give Gordon trouble, imo. Buchecha seems like he would do well, for example. Perhaps Muhamed Aly as well

 

[yetanother]

i don't get why you underrate Gordon so much. If nothing else, a slow but technical guard player like Cyborg is a perfect matchup for a pressure-passing, strong finisher like Gordon Ryan.

Cyborg is faster and more agile then Gordon (was heavier at the ADCC, not sure now). He also has better wrestling.


Gordon has super good strategy and tactics and knows what he should be doing. Him not fighting with a random assortment of stuff like a lot of gi guys do is a big testament to having an actual coach. Combined with max steroids and heel hook advantage that makes him a world beater. I don't believe he has the technical wizardy in straight jiu jitsu do beat more athletic people who don't do stupid gi games.