So when it comes to college, which is the best policy?

[platypus44]

1. Adopt the Japanese system of primary and secondary school open 12 months a year - no summer vacation (so that they can "help out on the farm"). The system does have some 2 week vacations throughout the year but no big gap in which students can forget what they learned and slide back over the summer.
2. Secondary schools become community learning centers with adult education - especially oriented to employment opportunities.
3. Huge expansion of nursing schools to alleviate shortages currently being made up by stripping third world countries of their trained medical personnel.
4. Sliding scale interest rates on student loans based on the default percentages at various institutions. More federal involvement in the loan process lowering interest rates and extending payment periods in appropriate cases, forgiving loans for public employment, and screening out some marginal institutions.
5. Better technical training at all levels.
6. Life preparation training in high school - how does insurance work, what is social security, how do you buy a house, what are your rights as a tenant, how does the tax system work, what do you have to do to start a corporation, how do you plan a family budget, what are the economic consequences of a divorce, etc. etc.
7. German system of partial unemployment in a downturn. ERs can reduce the hours of EEs and the EEs can receive partial unemployment insurance. This helps maintain skill set continuity and workforce loyalty.

 

[Shoemaker]

6. Life preparation training in high school - how does insurance work, what is social security, how do you buy a house, what are your rights as a tenant, how does the tax system work, what do you have to do to start a corporation, how do you plan a family budget, what are the economic consequences of a divorce, etc. etc

More of this, please. I knew a girl who, when she first moved out on her own, didn’t even realize bills weren’t optional, let alone how to balance to her income and expenses. If we all weren’t dirt poor back then she probably would’ve been in trouble for not paying taxes, too.

People need to be better prepared for life and we all benefit when everyone understands these basic things. I’m not convinced drivers understand how 4-way stops work anymore.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I can see not going 100% free but I would Like to see heavily subsidized college educations.


IMO having graduates come out with very little debt only helps the housing and rental markets. Which helps the country as whole much more than college students paying back crippling debt to a small segment of the population. The housing market does more for the entire country.

 

[Greco_Wiz]

The idea that these universities are over charging students and have massive amounts of wasteful spending is demonstrably wrong. Most of these R1 institutions are operating on over billion dollar annual budgets. If you’re going to make a claim that, for instance, tuition should be reduced substantially, then the onus is one to go through their publicly available budget and show where the waste is. Don’t get me wrong, wasteful spending exist. But it is not even close to the same amounts, even percentages, as the military or border patrol- both paid for by your taxes as well. Wasteful spending at public universities is probably at <1-2 percent.

My solution to the problem: free or very cheap community college and more federal money put into scholarships for STEM majors at the university level. Free college for everyone will bankrupt this country and most majors don’t deserve it.

 

[superpunch]

1. Adopt the Japanese system of primary and secondary school open 12 months a year - no summer vacation (so that they can "help out on the farm"). The system does have some 2 week vacations throughout the year but no big gap in which students can forget what they learned and slide back over the summer.

Wut the Japanese school year has 2 huge gaps in it ~2 months each.

 

[Ceez]

@emax


Curious about this weeding out process in Scandinavia, what's that all about?

 

[platypus44]

Wut the Japanese school year has 2 huge gaps in it ~2 months each.

As I understand it - 1. 4-5 weeks in August/early September; 2. two weeks around 1/1; 3. 2 or 3 weeks after the end of the school year (third week in March) until the beginning of the new school year (second week of April). There is no 2 month gap.

 

[platypus44]

More of this, please. I knew a girl who, when she first moved out on her own, didn’t even realize bills weren’t optional, let alone how to balance to her income and expenses. If we all weren’t dirt poor back then she probably would’ve been in trouble for not paying taxes, too.

People need to be better prepared for life and we all benefit when everyone understands these basic things. I’m not convinced drivers understand how 4-way stops work anymore.

Life has become more complicated than in the times of Horace Mann and this kind of eduction is absolutely necessary.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Which do you think is the best way to handle how colleges are supported?

1. Free college for everyone after high school as Bernie has advocated for?

2. Free college for those who are qualified in a weeding out process as is done in Scandinavia

3. Ending of loans/grants and public support and making colleges free market based

4. Using the current university support system but without support for for profit colleges?

5. Changing the current policy on loans, having colleges be required to cover at least part of defaulted loans and not having any forgiveness plans?

6. Using solution 5 but altering it so that the thoroughly qualified, capable students in STEM, English, history and literature can get support and we don't have floods of majors that won't do anything?

7. Having private loans or more of a mix of public and private loans?

8. A fundamentally different solution from the above?

Number 3, and the Uni can still offer their own scholarships if they want. Or if some charity wants to give some money for scholarship is up to them.

College can charge what it wants. Students have to find some way of paying. If too expensive hopefully students smart enough to go elsewhere, and then Uni will have to price compete with each other.

Unis have to fund themselves, no more help from public, unless public wants to give it.

 

[usmctanker242]

Has to be #3 simply because college isn't for everyone and I hate this mentality that was pushed on the my generation that "no matter what go to college." So many kids waste 4+ years of their life sitting on their ass in school and many of them aren't any better off for it.

As a society we have been taught to kind of look down upon the trades and favor "higher learning" instead. Kids have been taught since they were sperms that they HAD to go to college to have a chance of getting a decent job and it's a bunch of crap.

So yeah... pull the government away from funding college and schools will have to alter their prices / spending habits. My college was a fucking joke with the way they spent money... somehow the engineering students had a tuition increase so they could subsidize the art students... some bullshit about how more STEM students were on scholarships than art students so it wasn't a big deal. Well, it was a big deal for me since I was paying for my schooling. The reality is these large schools waste so much money it's unbelievable and it's not a big deal because there is a fresh influx of money every year with new freshman. Time to put the squeeze on these ridiculous schools and their multiple layers of administrators making $100K+ per year.

 

[GSP_37]

If college is free, who's supposed to pay all the high paid professors and big wig VP of this and that and their many secretaries?

I believe many people will not benefit from college even if free because they are just too damn stupid and have bad attitudes.

 

[A.S. Deep]

O look the neighborhood leftist troll again.

I'm a moderate for one thing, not "the right", and I've been to college to witness it first hand. It's not irrational "fear of higher learning", you intellectually dishonest hack.

Being intoctrinated into accepting false statistics, conspiracy theories, and gender studies myths is not "higher education". It's quite the opposite.

I feel like there are two university systems in America. There are the liberal arts which are dealing with SJW bullshit, and then there are the STEM fields which are typically not affected by that. We need all the doctors, nurses, and other STEM professionals we can get so I hate that those fields are sometimes lumped in with the liberal arts because both are part of "college."

 

[MadSquabbles500]

No forgiveness plans. It's enabling/encouraging people to not pay their debts. No more new debts until your old debt is paid off. I see so many returning students with a degree and loans unpaid. I asked them wtf are they doing and they say they can't do shit with their degree or that it's going to take forever to pay it off so they hope they can get a different degree and different job. lmao

If we let people declare bankruptcy, then school debt should be included. Why do Unis get to be protected from bankruptcy?

 

[Fluffernutter]

Which do you think is the best way to handle how colleges are supported?

1. Free college for everyone after high school as Bernie has advocated for?

2. Free college for those who are qualified in a weeding out process as is done in Scandinavia

3. Ending of loans/grants and public support and making colleges free market based

4. Using the current university support system but without support for for profit colleges?

5. Changing the current policy on loans, having colleges be required to cover at least part of defaulted loans and not having any forgiveness plans?

6. Using solution 5 but altering it so that the thoroughly qualified, capable students in STEM, English, history and literature can get support and we don't have floods of majors that won't do anything?

7. Having private loans or more of a mix of public and private loans?

8. A fundamentally different solution from the above?

8.

Change the way we view college.

- Gone are the days where one starts off in the mailroom and works his/her way up to the boardroom. Why?

- Many jobs which do not need any specialized training outside of high school mandate that one needs a college degree. Why? (heck, my kid has better tech skills than me and he is in 3rd grade). My aunt is about to retire from a graphic design job she has had for years. She was self-taught as technology evolved (used to be a typist when I was a little kid). However, today, should would have never been able to score her current job if she didn't have some kind of degree in graphic design.

- Yay! You got a degree from an expensive New England liberal arts college. Congrats! In five years, you're job will be outsourced. However, the kid you made fun of in high school that became a plumber has paid off his mortgage already.


Today, we tell seniors in high school that they have just two options: College or military. In reality, college councilors tell kids to look at the military to save for college. So, either way, we tell kids that they must go to college. Again, why?

 

[Fluffernutter]

I could be completely wrong, but if you read articles about current university life in the US, it reads like there are fewer and fewer professors on college campuses. However, the ratio of "support staff" has risen quite a bit. For instance, I don't remember any diversity staff or equality staff. Plus, our dean of students was also the university's hockey coach. Today, I assume that those would be two very separate jobs being handled by two different people with different qualifications.

Recent college grads (or current students): is there any truth to that?

Could simply hiring more staff on campus than ever before be a big reason why colleges cost so much?

 

[Fluffernutter]

I like to go to "meet the candidates" Q&As.

I went to one about a decade ago. Two candidates were vying for the governorship.

During the introduction of one candidate, they listed off a very long list of the degrees and colleges he attended.

In my mind, I kept thinking "How would someone today afford so many degrees?"

So, during the Q&A part, I asked him that exact question.

His reply was that he was hoping to establish a state-wide version of AP. Therefore, students who took those classes (and passed) would be able to acquire college credits for in state universities before they arrived on campus. In theory, you could start with your freshman year paid off.

He hoped it would cut the costs down for college and keep motivated students from looking out of state for college.

 

[12ga.]

I think it should be nearly free for students supported by taxpayers. It was that way back when I went. I paid ~$200 a quarter at a cal state school and only had to work in summers and covered everything (laid hardwood floors) leaving me with zero debt. This was in the early 90s when politicians still believed education should be made cheap. Today, tuition is 15x that - so only those who chain themselves to debt or with wealthy parents can go. Not a great way to start a young life. This is cheapest example in California being a Cal State school. UC system schools are twice that and private such as USC or Stanford are 50K a year which only cater to upper echelons these days.

I also think there should be a three tiered "German approach" to education because not everyone needs college or should be in college. Basically it breaks down as technical (plumber, mechanic etc), semi professional (loan officer, nurse, etc) and professionals who go to an actual university (doctors, lawyers, etc) so people are much more skilled all around and a more applied approach.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

I feel like there are two university systems in America. There are the liberal arts which are dealing with SJW bullshit, and then there are the STEM fields which are typically not affected by that. We need all the doctors, nurses, and other STEM professionals we can get so I hate that those fields are sometimes lumped in with the liberal arts because both are part of "college."

I'm more in fear of the creep that's happening over to STEM from the "arts". And institutions mandating people in STEM fields to take women studies.

 

[emax]

Number 3, and the Uni can still offer their own scholarships if they want. Or if some charity wants to give some money for scholarship is up to them.

College can charge what it wants. Students have to find some way of paying. If too expensive hopefully students smart enough to go elsewhere, and then Uni will have to price compete with each other.

Unis have to fund themselves, no more help from public, unless public wants to give it.

I can see why this would be a more popular option. That said, at the moment, I'm fairly certain all university budgets, including merit based scholarships, come from public funding of some sort. Or at the very least largely from public funding. Even universities that started out as private in theory currently get their support, for scholarships, grants, lab research and other things, overwhelmingly from public sources. So I think it could be viable and, as universities become more out of control and more obsolete with online options, a necessity even. But I think it would have to be done in incremental steps.

Has to be #3 simply because college isn't for everyone and I hate this mentality that was pushed on the my generation that "no matter what go to college." So many kids waste 4+ years of their life sitting on their ass in school and many of them aren't any better off for it.

As a society we have been taught to kind of look down upon the trades and favor "higher learning" instead. Kids have been taught since they were sperms that they HAD to go to college to have a chance of getting a decent job and it's a bunch of crap.

So yeah... pull the government away from funding college and schools will have to alter their prices / spending habits. My college was a fucking joke with the way they spent money... somehow the engineering students had a tuition increase so they could subsidize the art students... some bullshit about how more STEM students were on scholarships than art students so it wasn't a big deal. Well, it was a big deal for me since I was paying for my schooling. The reality is these large schools waste so much money it's unbelievable and it's not a big deal because there is a fresh influx of money every year with new freshman. Time to put the squeeze on these ridiculous schools and their multiple layers of administrators making $100K+ per year.

Out of curiosity, did you go to college after joining the military? I was under the impression you were a military vet. Did you go to college on ROTC or something and join the military or go to college after being in it? And if you were paying, what kind of work were you doing to cover it?

 

[AznTrojan]

free college would be great... i'd stop putting money each month into my son's 529