Some thoughts on Connor | Page 2

Discussion in 'Conor McGregor vs Mayweather Discussion' started by bigfoot, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    Again you make assumptions about me and my positions that are wrong, and not supported by my posts..... again. I am not a Connor fan, in fact it is fair to say that I am rooting strongly for Mayweather to make a statement..... I have made similar posts about the Diaz fights as you just did.... I haven't argued that Connor is going to win this fight, instead I have argued the opposite.

    I am only stating that his performance against Paulie and Paulies own words are proof that his unique approach is more effective than many people thought and I have wondered about the lasting nature of that good. Plenty of boxing fans thought Paulie would walk right through Connor and have changed their tune because of Paulies own words. I am presenting a more nuanced view and you are so busy trying to argue that you aren't noticing that.
     
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  2. The Big Bang Brown Belt

    The Big Bang
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    Fedor was surpassed by Conor...?

    What the holy fuck are you smoking?
     
    #22
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  3. Bewareofdawg Double Yellow Card

    Bewareofdawg
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    Jesus man, get a hobby.
     
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  4. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    Contrary to what you and other fans think, Conor is not some once-in-a-lifetime tactical genius. Remember, he is the guy who managed to faceplant against an off-season Nate. He somehow failed to anticipate the problems posed by a good, rangy MMA boxer and on top of that, seemed completely unprepared to how his body would react to the rapid weight gain. Let me tell you: no top boxing gym would make a series of bush league mistakes like this.[/QUOTE]


    Exactly. Fedor is a better human being and a better fighter. His piss is better than Connors beer, his shity sweater is better than Connors 1000 dollar suits... his silence is worth more than all the bullshit Connor spews.
     
    #24
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  5. CPH Let's party

    CPH
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    Neither of us understands the other I think.

    I never assumed whether you were a Conor fan or not, or directly argued with you about the outcome. If I mentioned what I thought the outcome would be, it was only to emphasize my main point throughout our exchanges - that your theory of some outsider being able to innovate a sport which he barely grasps is poppycock.

    No, working in an environment where you are facing opponents with an abysmal level of boxing will not lead you to innovative concepts about dealing with elite boxers under their own rules.

    Learning to deal with a given problem under MMA rules is not an advantage when faced with a superficially similar problem under boxing rules. In fact, it is likely to leave you extremely vulnerable, since you have not developed the boxing tools to deal with said problem. Even if you've never boxed, you should be able to understand this.
     
    #25
  6. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    You did assume and state I was a fan, just go back and read your own post where you did....

    I think Connor doing as well as he did with Paulie (according to his own words) proves my point beyond doubt actually and I say this based only on Paulie's take on the matter-- which may turn out to be a bit dishonest and swayed in his favor. He said there is a method to his madness and it is somewhat effective. He is a world champion. i admit he was kind of set up for this though in an underhanded way.

    Also the thing about innovation and innovators is that they are like that from the beginning of their pursuits. Saying that they first HAVE to gain the totality of conventional understanding before beginning to innovate is absolutely wrong, impossible actually. This is because innovators are that way by nature. They begin thinking creatively and independently and outside of the box while learning conventional wisdom. You saying he HAS to learn convention first is just wrong.

    What will I find in your post history if I look up your take on how Connor would do against Paulie by the way?
     
    #26
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  7. CPH Let's party

    CPH
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    LOL Please don't get chafed and adversarial.

    I never said that you were a Conor fan specifically. I said that you and other 'fans' (as in: people who have never even sparred), have some silly ideas about combat sport. If you have some ring experience, then feel free to shoot that down and let's move on. Arguing with me about whether I did or did not think you were a fan of Conor's is pointless.

    As for the actual point we're arguing: no, the sparring sessions with Paulie don't prove your theory in the slightest.

    First of all, everything we know is hearsay. Hearsay plus 30 some seconds of hand-picked footage is not proof.

    Second of all, Paulie is a shot fighter who did a minimum of prep to get ready for Conor. This matters a whole lot - a big guy like Conor, in peak condition, getting some shots in on a guy of Paulie's level is not at all indicative that he has devised some never-before-seen tactics that will trouble a grandmaster like Floyd.

    I have nothing else to add about why your theory is wrong. You think that Conor's MMA experience and theories built on zero actual pro boxing competition might give him some advantage, I think that's total nonsense. That's it.
     
    #27
  8. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    I dont feel adversarial at all.

    I trust Paulies own words on Conor. Paulie himself said that Conor does know what he is doing and it is somewhat effective. It is clear that you are not going to recognize the value of thinking outside the box and approaching things from fresh perspectives. I have learned to deeply value these kinds of traits in a person. As to who is correct in this situation we will just have to wait and see.
     
    #28
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM
  9. CPH Let's party

    CPH
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    I absolutely do value thinking out of the box and innovation. I just don't agree with your idea of how innovation comes about. Direct experience with the set of problems you are trying to solve are key. In this case, MMA experience falls way short.
     
    #29
  10. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    Yes but you keep assuming that Connor doesn't understand the set of problems. The same can be said for Floyd in this case. I disagree with the level of understanding you think Conor has to have. I also assume he has more than you do in boxing. Is that wrong?

    I predict Connor to lose this match and have from the beginning. I Also predict that with all of Floyd's training and muscle memory in mind, Conors unorthodox style will cause some unexpected rifts for Floyd and gain some respect from open minded people.

    Lets wait and see.
     
    #30
  11. kpt018 Gold Belt

    kpt018
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    No need to grind your teeth either. Just put some money on Floyd and enjoy the easy pay day.
     
    #31
  12. CPH Let's party

    CPH
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    I am truly mystified by your insistence that Conor is some great combat strategist/problem solver. Again: this is the guy who failed miserably at understanding the problem of an out of shape Nate Diaz. Then in the rematch, needed 40 low kicks to manage a majority decision. This should tell you something about his fighting intellect.

    Whatever....

    I predict that this will be Floyd's easiest fight in ages.

    Conor might pull some show moves while he is out of range, to provoke and to distract, but it is going to have zero effect on the exchanges. Once they make contact, Conor's crude boxing arsenal and porous defense is going to get him picked apart rather quickly.
     
    #32
  13. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    I dont think Conor has to be a great combat strategist to surprise some people. I think he has to do things that people dont expect and dont train for and therefore wont see coming. I think Connors whole shtick is extremely creative but also limited. I dont personally think he can survive 3 title defenses in MMA -- and I dont much care who they are against. Conor needs to be seen as bigger than life in order to thrive-- he is at his absolute best creatively and on the levels of confidence and inspiration when he is doing what will make others see him as superhuman. I dont much like that about him, and it was one of the main points in my OP.

    My prediction for this fight is that he surprises a lot of people-- especially the boxing community with how well he does (realistically speaking though) but that Floyd figures him out and beats him soundly. He did that already with Paulie. I have Floyd beating Connor though by tko in the 6th round in the prediction thread. I think Floyd makes a statement.

    Having made my whole living out of thinking originally and seeing how often people just simply dont question things AT ALL (because the status quo is working for them), and seeing that in basically every area I have ever gotten involved in, I cannot help but respect and value some of the things he is doing. The difference between me and Connor (outside of him being wildly successful in a certain sense) is that I dont think that makes me better than other people. On the contrary, nothing I have even done could have been done were it not for generations of people building skills and insights and holding down a foundation. I think the two approaches compliment each other. And now we are back to my OP.
     
    #33
  14. CPH Let's party

    CPH
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    I wish you could articulate what these 'things that people don't expect' are. I mean, if I were so certain of something, I would definitely not be so utterly vague. It's one reason I can't take your opinion seriously.

    And ~6 rounds before getting finished is not doing well. (I'm guessing inside 6 as well by the way) in boxing terms, finishing a much younger guy who outweighs you by roughly 20 lbs means only one thing: that he had no business being in there skill-wise.

    Conor landing a couple of good shots will not surprise me. If he beats Floyd, or even steals a round, I would be very impressed. Though that can be done without the use of these nebulous surprise tactics you keep talking about; a much bigger fighter going balls-to-the-wall in the opening rounds without any thought for what happens after that, for example.
     
    #34
  15. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    I dont mind if you cant take what I am saying seriously. You cant see what you cant see, and you dont know what you dont know. As far as specifically what he might do, that is unknowable till we see it, but I do trust in and have faith in creativity and intuition and innovation, no matter the field. My points are absolutely valid, but so are yours. WE wont know how this is going to turn out for sure till it happens and we are each just looking at it though our own limited lens.



    At least we can agree that Floyd is kicking some ass in a couple of weeks right?
     
    #35
  16. CPH Let's party

    CPH
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    LOL I guess there is some common ground there.
     
    #36
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  17. Whoa Nelly White Belt

    Whoa Nelly
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    Sigh.
    Don't be an idiot. I know you're not one from your post.
    Yes, you're right you are conflicted and McGregor is just your mirror.
    Part of you wants to go full on ego maniac, full force bad ass. And you should now and then.


    We don't want humility from mcgregor.
    We intuitively understand when we watch him he is channeling some serious ego/king energies in his psyche. That kinda shit isn't humble.It's Genghis Khan shit.
     
    #37
  18. bigfoot Yellow Belt

    bigfoot
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    I am not conflicted in any way with wanting to go full ego maniac, I've already lived that train wreck and learned the lessons that come from it years ago. I have no desire to do so. The conflict I stated is between the value I give to creativity and belief on the one side and the degenerative and misleading false power of egoically raising oneself above others.

    Ill take Fedor and his deep humility any day over any loud mouthed showboat and its not a hard choice to make.
     
    #38
  19. Whoa Nelly White Belt

    Whoa Nelly
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    yeah, if there was a world of humility we'd all quickly lose interest.
    We need both.
    Fedor isn't being humble because it's the right thing to do, it's who he is naturally.
    Same with Conor and the brashness. But like everyone he also has the other side. Look how he took the loss to Nate.

    Congratz with learning your lessons, that puts you ahead of 99% of us.
     
    #39

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