ComteGuillotine
Blue Belt
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2010
- Messages
- 591
- Reaction score
- 0
By the way, those NRA "More guns equals less crime" arguments are pretty thin. For example, crime went down between 1992 and 2005 while gun ownership went up. But crime went up between 1962 and 1992. Did gun ownership go down drastically during those years? You can make lots of leaps of logic in both directions, so I'd just as soon leave those kind of conjectures out of the discussion.
Here's another scenario: you are out for a late night stroll when you are mugged at gun point - fortunately, you've got your gun in your concealed holster. So what are you going to do? Turn this into a quick draw shoot out when the other guy already has his weapon drawn and pointed at you? Correct move is to give him your wallet, car keys, whatever you have -- and don't even wait for him to ask you, either -- and once again, take off running like the wind. If he shoots at you while you're running away, keep fucking running; according to some police studies, bad guys only hit a moving target about 5% of the time. If you stop, turn around and become a stationary to target return fire, you are worsening the chances of your survival. And the worst thing you could have done for your survival chances was to try to quick draw the guy at the beginning.
And you guys are missing my point; guns are fine, just don't put all your eggs in that basket. Too many people walk around thinking, "If anything happens, I've got a gun." In other words, the real reason many people have guns is to help provide them with a feeling of security -- which is on of the most dangerous things there is.
A gun doesn't take away the need to mentally prepare for violence, because in a real violent encounter, it is not a gun that is going to tilt the odds in your favor; it is making good decisions quickly.
For example, let's say you are lying in bed with the wife or girlfriend (let's say you have no kids in this scenario). You hear a loud crash in the front of the house, so you grab your gun off the night stand to go investigate ---
Wrong fucking move - you are expecting so much trouble that you are bringing a gun, but you are still going out there? The right move is to grab the missus by the hair, go out the fucking back window, and run like the wind.
Here's another scenario: you are out for a late night stroll when you are mugged at gun point - fortunately, you've got your gun in your concealed holster. So what are you going to do? Turn this into a quick draw shoot out when the other guy already has his weapon drawn and pointed at you? Correct move is to give him your wallet, car keys, whatever you have -- and don't even wait for him to ask you, either -- and once again, take off running like the wind. If he shoots at you while you're running away, keep fucking running; according to some police studies, bad guys only hit a moving target about 5% of the time. If you stop, turn around and become a stationary to target return fire, you are worsening the chances of your survival. And the worst thing you could have done for your survival chances was to try to quick draw the guy at the beginning.
There are just as many ways to make bad decisions with guns as there are without, and often times the consequences are made worse. Having a gun might make you feel like a man who can protect himself and his loved ones by fighting back -- and that mindset is often tragically misguided. Real self defense is not about taking out the bad guy, and it's certainly not about protecting property. It's about getting the hell out of Dodge ASAP. It's not fight OR flight; it's the fight FOR flight. Guns too often make people lose sight of this.
By the way, those NRA "More guns equals less crime" arguments are pretty thin. For example, crime went down between 1992 and 2005 while gun ownership went up. But crime went up between 1962 and 1992. Did gun ownership go down drastically during those years? You can make lots of leaps of logic in both directions, so I'd just as soon leave those kind of conjectures out of the discussion.
Do you really carry a holstered gun around your house with you? Really? When you are brushing your teeth? Eating breakfast? Making sexy time? That's... well... there you have it (Are you like the last :20 seconds?)
On a side note, the number of reported accidental shootings or "gun accidents" is a hard number. I don't see how you can call that an invented statistic. However, I do agree with you that the statistical appilactions are disputable. Where most statistics get into trouble is when they attempt to compare (or are used to compare) unanalogous situations.
JPFO's movie, "No Guns for Negroes" -exposes the racist history of American gun control laws. Every person who supports gun control laws must be shown this film or gun ownership will cease to exist in America.
Don't become a former gun owner because you chose not to show "No Guns for Negroes "to every one you know.
A FREE, high-quality DVD of "No Guns for Negroes" is yours with a one-year JPFO membership. Make a two-year commitment and you also get a FREE copy of the award winning
America has a problem in that a small portion of the population, about 3-4% of the nation, commits approximately 60-70% of all violent crimes. This 3-4% hails from a demographic category that, as a whole, comprises no more than 12-13% of the nation. Why should all citizens suffer because a percentage of a minority population commits an insanely massive amount of crime?
Was reading this thread from the beginning, and was with you up until this point.
I'm curious, why didn't you just say black people? As it was obvious that was your implication, and weren't you against statistics, atleast by the anti gun people? I mean seriously it's not like your thought isn't pervasive around the majority of the population who'd look at me as a criminal for walking down the street with a baseball cap.
And you guys are missing my point; guns are fine, just don't put all your eggs in that basket. Too many people walk around thinking, "If anything happens, I've got a gun." In other words, the real reason many people have guns is to help provide them with a feeling of security -- which is on of the most dangerous things there is.
A gun doesn't take away the need to mentally prepare for violence, because in a real violent encounter, it is not a gun that is going to tilt the odds in your favor; it is making good decisions quickly.
For example, let's say you are lying in bed with the wife or girlfriend (let's say you have no kids in this scenario). You hear a loud crash in the front of the house, so you grab your gun off the night stand to go investigate ---
Wrong fucking move - you are expecting so much trouble that you are bringing a gun, but you are still going out there? The right move is to grab the missus by the hair, go out the fucking back window, and run like the wind.
Here's another scenario: you are out for a late night stroll when you are mugged at gun point - fortunately, you've got your gun in your concealed holster. So what are you going to do? Turn this into a quick draw shoot out when the other guy already has his weapon drawn and pointed at you? Correct move is to give him your wallet, car keys, whatever you have -- and don't even wait for him to ask you, either -- and once again, take off running like the wind. If he shoots at you while you're running away, keep fucking running; according to some police studies, bad guys only hit a moving target about 5% of the time. If you stop, turn around and become a stationary to target return fire, you are worsening the chances of your survival. And the worst thing you could have done for your survival chances was to try to quick draw the guy at the beginning.
There are just as many ways to make bad decisions with guns as there are without, and often times the consequences are made worse. Having a gun might make you feel like a man who can protect himself and his loved ones by fighting back -- and that mindset is often tragically misguided. Real self defense is not about taking out the bad guy, and it's certainly not about protecting property. It's about getting the hell out of Dodge ASAP. It's not fight OR flight; it's the fight FOR flight. Guns too often make people lose sight of this.
By the way, those NRA "More guns equals less crime" arguments are pretty thin. For example, crime went down between 1992 and 2005 while gun ownership went up. But crime went up between 1962 and 1992. Did gun ownership go down drastically during those years? You can make lots of leaps of logic in both directions, so I'd just as soon leave those kind of conjectures out of the discussion.
Real self defense is not about taking out the bad guy, and it's certainly not about protecting property. It's about getting the hell out of Dodge ASAP. It's not fight OR flight; it's the fight FOR flight.
Thankfully not all countries let their people have the right to carry guns.
A concealed carry guy in my area was in a parking lot at a bank late at night, getting some money at the machine. A man with a knife got the drop on him and was holding the knife to his gut area. If he had tried to draw he would have been gutted in an instant... The guy demanded his wallet and his ATM card, which he gave up. The guy then demanded his truck keys, which he gave up. The man then said, "thanks" and jammed the knife into the guy's gut. The guy staggered back, his gut gushing with blood, and he drew his gun, screaming at the guy that he was going to shoot him, which caused the criminal to immediately go prone. I believe the guy (concealed carry guy) may have urinated his pants as he was holding the criminal at gunpoint, and trying to keep pressure on the wound and focus on the wound, the criminal slithered off into the bushes and then ran off, while he was making a phonecall to paramedics.
Had he done nothing, he could have easily been stabbed again and again, or his throat could have been cut.
If he had a knowledge of grappling, perhaps he would have been able to use technique/skills to create the distance necessary to safely draw and he wouldn't have been stabbed in the gutting.
Why cooperate with somebody who isn't going to want a witness? Fight back for all you're worth!
I'm not going to count on the mercy of those who never show any.
I can appreciate this scenario, and I feel very badly for the guy. I sincerely hope he recovers fully and as quickly as possible. Most criminals are vicious, depraved human beings... I am not naive to that fact. However, this still doesn't mean that the optimum self defense strategy is one employing force.
The mugging defense scenario that I mentally rehearse over and over again is, "Here's my wallet, here's my keys," TURN AND SPRINT. No hands up, no waiting for his response, not even waiting for him to ask for my keys. If anyone is going to stab me they are going to have to either 1) catch me completely by surprise in a fully committed ambush attack 2) stab while running faster than me.
Also, of course, the first line of defense in situational awareness, and although even monkeys fall out of trees sometimes, ATM machines in parking lots at night are a great place to avoid. And if you have to go to a place like this, your senses should be twitching every second.
Not a bad idea. At the very least, I'd recommend that anyone be mindful that they try not to stop their car in a place (including too close to the car in front of them at a red light) that they can't get out of by jamming the gas.As a rule I never engage the parking brake, I never put my car in park, and I never shut my car off, I simply keep one foot on the brake in the event I have to take it off the brake, jam it on the gas, and speed away.
Interesting you say this. Talk to an expert, and they will tell you that most victims of violent crime begin their stories the same way. "I had a bad feeling, but ..." If I had a bad feeling about a weird card sitting next to me, I would pull out of the ATM in a second. You might think of it as a disruption of your daily life, but it's a pretty minor price to pay to escape from a potentially life-threatening encounter. After all, it doesn't happen that much that you get a genuinely bad feeling about something, unless you walk around paranoid, which is the opposite of a relaxed, but "turned on" mindset.When somebody wants to walk up behind my car when I'm at the ATM, particularly when they told me to go in front of them (this cause me a lot of suspicion because most people just aren't that nice, particularly with a potential get-away vehicle parked in the next lane) it causes me to go into high alert mode. I was tempted to just drive away but I'm not going to let a potential thug run me off from going about my daily business.
I will give up my keys and wallet in a heart beat. Call 911 immediately (if a criminal gets your wallet and keys, by the way, the chance of him going to your house immediately are very low because he knows the cops will be there shortly), change the locks, use the deadbolts, bar the windows, install a good security system, get an extra dog (I already have a pit), be extra vigilant for a long while. Does it suck? Yes, but not as much as being potentially killed in a violent encounter. And probably not quite as much as going through the court system after you shoot someone dead, either. And certainly not as much as doing jail time if the court should happen to decide the wrong way.As for me, I'm not letting anybody get my wallet because it has my personal information and address in it, along with a spare car key tucked inside. Nor will I let them get my car-keys as my house keys are attached to the key set, along with my flash-drive with more personal information and files (such as a list of all the serial numbers and descriptions of all the guns I own in the event there is a burglary while I am away and have to report them as stolen), along with backup keys for my gun safes, along with other stuff.
The way I see it, my attitude towards the basic thug is this, "if you want my car, go ahead and make a move, you're going to have to kill me to get it, and I guarantee you my training is vastly superior to yours and I have no problem killing you to stop you from killing me..."
Not to mention if I am going on a road-trip which will take me more than 50-100 miles from home I first put on my under armor shirt, then my concealable body armor, then my regular t-shirt, because you never know who you might encounter on the road. Not to mention a ballistic vest reduces impact trauma in a vehicle collision and many police officers who have been in car crashes have credited being saved to their ballistic vests.
Basically all I need to know about him is that he's a thug with a gun who is presently alive and shortly will either be dead or otherwise incapacitated. I assume I'm not going to be held up at gunpoint or attacked with a knife by a Navy SEAL, a professional MMA fighter, or a tactical pistol course instructor. I'm expecting that whoever attacks me will not have a respectable honest profession and will not have training comparable to mine. Maybe that expectation is wrong, but historical precedent would reinforce my view.
Wow! A lot here! Thanks for the reply. I'll have to respond bit by bit.
Not a bad idea. At the very least, I'd recommend that anyone be mindful that they try not to stop their car in a place (including too close to the car in front of them at a red light) that they can't get out of by jamming the gas.
Interesting you say this. Talk to an expert, and they will tell you that most victims of violent crime begin their stories the same way. "I had a bad feeling, but ..." If I had a bad feeling about a weird card sitting next to me, I would pull out of the ATM in a second. You might think of it as a disruption of your daily life, but it's a pretty minor price to pay to escape from a potentially life-threatening encounter. After all, it doesn't happen that much that you get a genuinely bad feeling about something, unless you walk around paranoid, which is the opposite of a relaxed, but "turned on" mindset.
I will give up my keys and wallet in a heart beat. Call 911 immediately (if a criminal gets your wallet and keys, by the way, the chance of him going to your house immediately are very low because he knows the cops will be there shortly), change the locks, use the deadbolts, bar the windows, install a good security system, get an extra dog (I already have a pit), be extra vigilant for a long while. Does it suck? Yes, but not as much as being potentially killed in a violent encounter. And probably not quite as much as going through the court system after you shoot someone dead, either. And certainly not as much as doing jail time if the court should happen to decide the wrong way.
I don't, I just train for exercise/ fun. Also, I know that I can handle myself in an unarmed combat situation.
I'm thinkin about takin some Krav Maga though, a school just opened up close to my University, and it would be nice to know how to defend against knives/ guns/ etc, if for nothing more than some piece of mind. Because life is unpredictable, it's nice to be able to try and prepare for the things that seem most heinous & preventable.
I think the people who say "the only weapons i need to defend myself are my hands and feet" are idiots...
explain to me how this is true??