Social South African Destruction Now Almost Assured

[Rod1]

Lol.
I've lived here my entire life.
We're a developing nation, not a developed one.
Race relations are not as bad as some might have you believe, but you're an idiot if you think they're 'fine'. They're not, and they've been getting steadily worse since 2008.
Chances are if you've been to South Africa, you remained in the "First World" areas of the country (an assumption that your belief that this is a developed nation somewhat supports). Try not to assume that you know what is happening in a country based on the fact that you've gone there on holiday. Even reading slanted, partisan news will probably give you a more accurate impression of the country than a quick trip or a conversation with an expat.

Also, @Rod1 I haven't replied to your messages in this thread. Sorry, got distracted, but was not avoiding a discussion/debate.

Take your time man, no worries.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

... And the protesters are out today.
The blare of vuvuzelas echoing across the city is making me wish the end would hurry up and come

 

[Rod1]

... And the protesters are out today.
The blare of vuvuzelas echoing across the city is making me wish the end would hurry up and come

Aah, the vuvuzuela, so 2010.



Do you see people dragging Zuma through the street and necklacing him anytime soon?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Aah, the vuvuzuela, so 2010.



Do you see people dragging Zuma through the street and necklacing him anytime soon?

Gods, I wish, but no.
We're still in the peaceful phase of the protest movement - the middle class is leading this protest in a lot of ways, so it's staying on message. With junk status now an actual, factual reality, I believe that the next couple of years will see us move into a more volatile place.

Unfortunately, Zuma is also only a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. Killing him wouldn't fix SA... though it would be satisfying.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

for anyone interested, here's some pics, tweets, etc, pertaining to the protests that pertain to the OP.

I left these two out of the spoiler, because.. fucking wow.

Spoiler: WARNING: No Graphic Images

I'm sometimes a cynic about this country, and I'm still pretty sure that we're more likely to be fucked than not, but even if we only managed to pull together for just one day, it's days like that that make me proud to be a South African.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Okay, cheesy moment over. I can go back to telling you how horrible my country is

 

[Thurisaz]

Okay, cheesy moment over. I can go back to telling you how horrible my country is

Too bad blacks won't ever choose a white prez even if Zuma gets the boot. Your country is really in dire straits.

 

[Unsurprised Diaz]

I guess "BRICS" will become singular again soon (no S at the end)

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Too bad blacks won't ever choose a white prez even if Zuma gets the boot. Your country is really in dire straits.

Yeah, dropping Zuma won't fix things. I'd be curious to see how the opposition would do, but the country's got social, economic, legislative, infrastructural and institutional damage all the way down to the core.

It's nice to see everyone coming together for once, but give them a couple hours and they'll find factional and intra-factional differences to threaten one another over again.
Rape is still a national passtime, murder is again on the rise (as is the wealth gap), the economy's tumbled, and protests tend to be a placebo in lieu of real action. People will pat themselves on the back, proud that "they were there" or something, and then feel good for a bit while they continue to turn a blind eye to the retarded reality they're caught in.
Our descent is slower, and our rebellion against it manages to be comparatively reasonable, but we're still an African nation.

 

[Arkain2K]

So, the President, Jacob Zuma, fired the finance minister, Pravin Gordhan, last night (after recalling him on Wednesday from an international roadtrip intended to encourage investor confidence) and has replaced him with the former Minister of Home Affairs, Malusi Gigaba.

Gigaba's only qualification for the job is his loyalty to the eminently corrupt president.
This is nothing more than a manoeuvre intended to give the president complete control over, and access to the treasury.
Considering that Zuma is in the pocket of the Gupta business/crime family, this could also be seen as the final chapter in a story of state capture.

For all those who predicted SA ending up like Zimbabwe, this could be the first real step in making you look like Nostradamuses.
This is also likely to be a wet dream come true if you like to debate against leftists.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/breaking-gordhan-motsoaledi-among-the-axed-20170331

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...acking-as-parties-react-to-reshuffle-20170331



http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/zumas-night-of-the-long-knives-20170331



So... I might be looking for a place to stay soon, any right-wingers want to take in an African refugee? That'll stun the liberals into silence

A few years from now we'll see this same headline with South Africa's name on it.

 

[Lord Coke]

It is happening in South Africa right now. South Africa will collapse and somehow it will be the fault of the people who had their land stolen. When there are no more Boers Africa will starve. That is why the South African government wants to take the land while at the same time make it hard for the displaced Boers to leave.
https://www.aljazeera.com/programme...es-south-african-farmers-190829143259189.html

Property rights are protected by South Africa's constitution, but to propel the stalled land reform process, the government is now considering a constitutional change that would allow it to expropriate land from white farmers without paying for it.

 

[Lord Coke]

https://www.newsweek.com/south-afri...e-wealthy-whites-racism-land-seizures-1457595

A leftist leader in South Africa has called for the anger fueling a recent wave of xenophobic violence against African foreigners to be redirected toward the country's wealthy white population.

The violence, which has mainly targeted Africans from other countries and their businesses, has been condemned by South African President Cryil Ramaphosa and drawn protests from other African leaders, the BBC reported. Ramaphosa said Tuesday that the violence is "totally unacceptable, something that we cannot allow to happen in South Africa... I want to stop it immediately."

At least five people have been killed in the unrest, with dozens arrested in Johannesburg—the country's largest city. South African Police have used tear gas, rubber bullets and stun grenades to try and disperse angry crowds.

But the leader of the far-left Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) political party—Julius Malema—said that while the anger was legitimate, it was not focused on the right target.

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"Our anger is directed at wrong people," Malema wrote on Twitter. "Like all of us, our African brothers & sisters are selling their cheap labour for survival. The owners of our wealth is white monopoly capital; they are refusing to share it with us & the ruling party #ANC protects them."


Julius Sello Malema

✔@Julius_S_Malema
https://twitter.com/Julius_S_Malema/status/1168852034407325696

Our anger is directed at wrong people. Like all of us, our African brothers & sisters are selling their cheap labour for survival. The owners of our wealth is white monopoly capital; they are refusing to share it with us & the ruling party #ANC protects them.#OneAfricaIsPossible


21.1K
4:43 AM - Sep 3, 2019
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Malema later followed up with a second tweet, suggesting "these whites must for a second keep quiet because we are dealing with a mess created by them. They are the ones who created this situation by telling us that we are poor & unemployed because 'foreigners' took our jobs. We are fighting for cramps."

Malema once belonged to the dominant African National Congress party, which has won every general election in post-apartheid South Africa. Malema was the party's Youth League president until he was expelled in 2012 for his divisive rhetoric.

He founded the EFF in 2013 and under his leadership, the party has taken a host of controversial policy positions. These include the suggestion that the government should take land from white farmers without paying compensation, and redistribute it to black South Africans.

The "white monopoly capital" referenced in Malema's tweet has long been a salient issue in South African politics. It generally refers to the unequal distribution of national wealth, which benefits white citizens and has its roots in the racist white minority apartheid rule of South Africa which ended in 1994.

Steven Friedman, a political science professor at the University of Johannesburg, told Newsweekthat the apartheid-era white population "used the law and severe restrictions on black business activity to ensure that they monopolized wealth and economic power."

Those who use the term, including Malema, have been dismissed by opponents as far-left ideologues or manipulative populists, seeking to exploit the racial divisions that scar the country.

But despite 25 years of democracy, this racialized economic inequality remains. "The term 'white capital' refers to this reality," Friedman explained, "that blacks might control politics but whites still dominate the economy. This reality is exploited by some politicians and is clearly not a reason to threaten violence. But it is the reality which is divisive, not the fact that people draw attention to it."

AfriForum, an NGO that focuses on the civil rights issues affecting the minority white Afrikaner community, was quick to condemn Malema's assertions on Twitter, The Citizen reported.

The group's Deputy CEO Ernst Roets said the tweet was "nothing other than a racist incitement of violence against minorities. Violence against any community has to stop. It should not be directed at anyone else. The world should take notice of the persecution of minorities in South Africa

 

[MWB1982]

I believe the white South African farmers should be let into America to become farmers. This is the type of immigrants we should allow into America.

I meet a lot of them at my job and they seem like genuinely good people. Very hard working. There is one truck driving company made up of all white South Africans. They are cool guys. They blow the other truck driving companies away. They give us a lot of overtime hours during corn and grain season because they bring in so much corn and grains.. I've worked many 24hr days because of them. They don't stop bringing in loads.

 

[Arkain2K]

For all those who predicted SA ending up like Zimbabwe, this could be the first real step in making you look like Nostradamuses.
This is also likely to be a wet dream come true if you like to debate against leftists.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/breaking-gordhan-motsoaledi-among-the-axed-20170331

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...acking-as-parties-react-to-reshuffle-20170331



http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/zumas-night-of-the-long-knives-20170331



So... I might be looking for a place to stay soon, any right-wingers want to take in an African refugee? That'll stun the liberals into silence

 

[VivaRevolution]

So, the President, Jacob Zuma, fired the finance minister, Pravin Gordhan, last night (after recalling him on Wednesday from an international roadtrip intended to encourage investor confidence) and has replaced him with the former Minister of Home Affairs, Malusi Gigaba.

Gigaba's only qualification for the job is his loyalty to the eminently corrupt president.
This is nothing more than a manoeuvre intended to give the president complete control over, and access to the treasury.
Considering that Zuma is in the pocket of the Gupta business/crime family, this could also be seen as the final chapter in a story of state capture.

For all those who predicted SA ending up like Zimbabwe, this could be the first real step in making you look like Nostradamuses.
This is also likely to be a wet dream come true if you like to debate against leftists.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/breaking-gordhan-motsoaledi-among-the-axed-20170331

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...acking-as-parties-react-to-reshuffle-20170331



http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/zumas-night-of-the-long-knives-20170331



So... I might be looking for a place to stay soon, any right-wingers want to take in an African refugee? That'll stun the liberals into silence

Sounds like Trump.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

How are they more skilled and culturally compatible as in a coming from a nation that set up a comprehensive system of segregation that deprived people of basic rights based on skin color and benefiting that system to an enormous degree? I could tbh I could do without that kind of cultural compatibility. Skilled? The Boer farmers have other skills besides farming an occupation there is almost zero demand for in the US?

You're advertising your racist ignorance - assuming that, because they're white, they must be the only refugees or potential refugees that come from a country that segregated based on skin colour (or some similarly arbitrary distinction). Refugees are refugees because they come from shitholes - so, pointing out the flaws in the country of origin does nothing more to disqualify Boers than it would to disqualify anyone else.

Boers are more compatible with Americans than, say, Somalians because:
A) They are more likely to have a first world-equivalent education;
B) They are more likely to be fluent in English;
C) They aspire to and are familiar with Western, first world behavioural norms; and,
D) They come from a Christian-majority nation (US and SA both around 70% Christian)...

...among other reasons.

Boers being skilled is not just a statement about the skills they possess and whether or not those skills would be applicable to an industry-in-need on the States, but the skills they have the potential to develop when compared to refugees who likely have less experience with high-technology, wide-scale automation, and rapid modernisation.

Yes everybody has a stained history, but so what? Why allow people who to come into this country who might seek to set up the same kind of Apartheid system that existed in SA especially in the US that has it's own history of segregation it is still dealing with? Besides aren't these the same kind of arguments that people use to oppose taking in muslims, Latin Americans and others from poor countries. People who btw come from far worse circumstances than SA Boers?

Very similar arguments - which is why they highlight your racist hypocrisy. You see, I'm not actually in favour of the US or Australia or Western Europe recognising Boers as refugees and taking them in. I'm just pointing out your apparent racist motivation in denying them this status when you're in favour of it being granted to other people because they're brown.
I would and have argued against Boers being transplanted, en masse, to the States for the same reasons that I've argued against Muslims being transplanted, en masse, to the States: a lack of cultural compatibility (even though your average Boer would be more compatible than your average Somalian).
I've also argued in favour of the Russian and Georgian efforts to relocate and assimilate Boers, because I think that Eastern European attitudes and needs suit the Afrikaners better than modern Western outlooks would.

I'm fairly consistent in this - brown our white, I think that countries should take in those who are compatible with their cultures. You argue against a group's right to refugee status based on the lightness of their skin.
And somehow, you seem to feel that you're taking the moral high ground in doing so.

The laughable idea that the Boers would want to set up a similar system of segregation in their host country is just a product of your ignorance of the history of the Boers, British annexation of the Cape, and Boer nationalism as a whole.
Your convictions are built on a foundation of ignorance.

 

[58miles]

You're advertising your racist ignorance - assuming that, because they're white, they must be the only refugees or potential refugees that come from a country that segregated based on skin colour (or some similarly arbitrary distinction). Refugees are refugees because they come from shitholes - so, pointing out the flaws in the country of origin does nothing more to disqualify Boers than it would to disqualify anyone else.

Boers are more compatible with Americans than, say, Somalians because:
A) They are more likely to have a first world-equivalent education;
B) They are more likely to be fluent in English;
C) They aspire to and are familiar with Western, first world behavioural norms; and,
D) They come from a Christian-majority nation (US and SA both around 70% Christian)...

...among other reasons.

Boers being skilled is not just a statement about the skills they possess and whether or not those skills would be applicable to an industry-in-need on the States, but the skills they have the potential to develop when compared to refugees who likely have less experience with high-technology, wide-scale automation, and rapid modernisation.



Very similar arguments - which is why they highlight your racist hypocrisy. You see, I'm not actually in favour of the US or Australia or Western Europe recognising Boers as refugees and taking them in. I'm just pointing out your apparent racist motivation in denying them this status when you're in favour of it being granted to other people because they're brown.
I would and have argued against Boers being transplanted, en masse, to the States for the same reasons that I've argued against Muslims being transplanted, en masse, to the States: a lack of cultural compatibility (even though your average Boer would be more compatible than your average Somalian).
I've also argued in favour of the Russian and Georgian efforts to relocate and assimilate Boers, because I think that Eastern European attitudes and needs suit the Afrikaners better than modern Western outlooks would.

I'm fairly consistent in this - brown our white, I think that countries should take in those who are compatible with their cultures. You argue against a group's right to refugee status based on the lightness of their skin.
And somehow, you seem to feel that you're taking the moral high ground in doing so.

The laughable idea that the Boers would want to set up a similar system of segregation in their host country is just a product of your ignorance of the history of the Boers, British annexation of the Cape, and Boer nationalism as a whole.
Your convictions are built on a foundation of ignorance.

Foundation of ignorance?

When I said I'd gladly swap out SA Boers for pretty much any other refugees on the planet I meant it. I would happily take in little green Martians ahead of Boers.

 

[evansusmc2]

I'd gladly swap out SA Boers for pretty much any other refugees on the planet.

Yeah let’s see how your illegals/crime ridden/welfare sucking economy compares to an economy full of SA Boers. Your ideal head of state would get ran into the ground in side by side comparison.

 

[Lord Coke]

Foundation of ignorance?

When I said I'd gladly swap out SA Boers for pretty much any other refugees on the planet I meant it. I would happily take in little green Martians ahead of Boers.

So let's replace Boer with Ethiopian and I said this. You would be up in arms calling me a racist. Don't be a hypocrite. Either you can make statements about a racial group or you can't. Its not okay to be able to single out one group and say well that group they aren't like me so no problem being racist to them.

As for farming is not a skill in demand in the United States. That obviously is not true.
The type of farming is a form of skilled labor that is in high demand in the much of the country. Sorry but metropolitan america is not all of America. Also why is this argument made solely in connection to the Boers? Even if they were unskilled laborer with any other group you would be saying they want to take jobs American don't want to do.

Your comments are clearly based on some deeply seated racial animus.

 

[thanoswasright]

Foundation of ignorance?

When I said I'd gladly swap out SA Boers for pretty much any other refugees on the planet I meant it. I would happily take in little green Martians ahead of Boers.

You'd take cannibalistic Congolese war criminals who rape infants in hope of curing their HIV over Boers?
Jesus, did your momma leave your daddy for a Boer or something?