Spain to Push for European Recognition of Palestine: We May Go It Alone if That Fails

This, in a roundabout way is exactly what I have been trying to get you to see. Jews do not want a state, let alone a military. This is zionism. This is what you support, not Jews.

To further illustrate my point, and I have put this challenge out there several times, find me any of our Rabbis or Sages, prior to zionism, who even suggested taking the Holy Land by force. Which ones said to go there as a wall and to build a strong military, let alone to go ethnically cleanse God's children?

See my point?

Be aware that I can find multiple quotes directly from our Rabbis and Sages throughout history, and from within our Torah that says exactly the opposite. Judaism has been clear on this throughout our diaspora and Judaism doesn't change because you said so.

I dont expect a rabbai to call for war. I dont believe for a second that the Jewish people dont want a country to call home
 
If those religious texts have no historical basis then your Judaism might as well be based on the Teletubbies. You are LARPing Judaism.
You are the one who asked to be educated on Judaism and I am telling you what has been recorded in Jewish writings since there were Jewish writings. This IS history! I am talking about discussions relating to this topic for millennia.

Again, that doesn't change because you say so.

You have to delete a lot of facts to use that very flawed analogy.

If China was never a country, but a region administered by outside imperial powers for centuries.

And named after a historical invader from the outside (Palestinian is derived from the name used for the invaders from the Aegean, the Philistines).

And I moved there and legally bought land from Chinese.

Then they tried to kill me and in fighting them off I take even more land, then it's mine.

If they never make peace with me but keep attacking me and each time I defend myself and take even more land, then that land is also mine.
So yes, we can take homes in China if by force?



I dont expect a rabbai to call for war. I dont believe for a second that the Jewish people dont want a country to call home
You missed the point entirely.

We, as Jews yearn for our return. For each generation there is nothing that would be more important than exactly this. It would prove us right for one thing and the world would unite.

But... this is not going there as wall, taking land by force or even considering murdering one of God's children in the process. This is so antithetical to Judaism that I have no more words.

We return to our promised land when our responsibilities and promises are fulfilled. God - and He alone will make this happen and I assure you that if that day comes that not one drop of blood will be spilled.
 
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I don't think that's true, to me the root of the issue is the injustice committed by the Zionists against the Palestinians which started from the beginning of the Zionist project.

I don't think Israel should give the Palestinians everything they want because they want all of historic Palestine just as Zionists want all of it for Israel. They should give them a contiguous state in the occupied territories because its the just thing to do but also because not doing so will means maintaining a permanent, low level conflict that has a toxic effect on Israeli society given the population of Arabs within Israel.

But I do have to admit that the Israelis are close to total victory. Even their former enemies like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are now trying to strong arm the Palestinians into a shit deal. Most likely, as I said earlier, the Israelis will get away with the deep injustice they've committed to the Palestinians and push them onto tiny reservations.

If you don't care about the Palestinians at all and are okay with Israel fucking them over completely then there really is little reason for Israel to concede any sort of fair deal to the Palestinians.

I DO care about the Palestinians. I see them as a human beings created in the image of God, and with inherent worth as such, and deserving of dignity. I want them to have safe, productive, and fulfilled lives. It pains me deeply that they are suffering.

The problem is that I have yet to see a strong signal from the Palestinians that they want a real and lasting peace. I'm not even sure that they genuinely want their own country. I believe they just want Israel to be gone. And I have no confidence that a majority Arab state in Israel's place would be anything but a mess with everyone being miserable and the Jews getting all the blame.
 
I DO care about the Palestinians. I see them as a human beings created in the image of God, and with inherent worth as such, and deserving of dignity. I want them to have safe, productive, and fulfilled lives. It pains me deeply that they are suffering.

The problem is that I have yet to see a strong signal from the Palestinians that they want a real and lasting peace. I'm not even sure that they genuinely want their own country. I believe they just want Israel to be gone. And I have no confidence that a majority Arab state in Israel's place would be anything but a mess with everyone being miserable and the Jews getting all the blame.
But as I've said many times, I don't want to see an Arab state in the place of Israel I just want to see a Palestinian state alongside it or a single state with full equality for all.

The Palestinians do not want peace if it means an unjust deal and I think they are right that the Israelis have not offered one yet. They have yet to offer full sovereignty which is what the Palestinians demand. Increasingly many are giving up on the two state solution and just want one state but the Israelis don't want that either. The Israelis want their cake but to eat it too; they want all the land with none of the Palestinians who live on it.
 
I get what you're saying and I actually kind of agree. Israel has solidified their position in the world since then though.
but there is an entity known as Palestine also, whether the US and Israel recognise it or not. It exists
 
I find it bizarre that a genuine Jew who accepts the Tanakh as authoritative could be so vehemently anti-Israel.

Well, @abiG is not alone in her way of thinking. I was surprised myself when I learned more about this 'phenomenon'.
 
The irony never stops here. Thanks, seatroll, you're awesome!

And ftr, our Torah is not "arab sunni supremacist revionist history," you moron.


Torah,Torah,Torah, - Mitsuo Fuchida
 
To recognize Taiwan would be much more intellectual honest, not to say one can't do both.

* Democratic- and independent elections
* A well-established constitution
* A functioning welfare system
* Has better control over its borders than Palestine.
 
I DO care about the Palestinians. I see them as a human beings created in the image of God, and with inherent worth as such, and deserving of dignity. I want them to have safe, productive, and fulfilled lives. It pains me deeply that they are suffering.

The problem is that I have yet to see a strong signal from the Palestinians that they want a real and lasting peace. I'm not even sure that they genuinely want their own country. I believe they just want Israel to be gone. And I have no confidence that a majority Arab state in Israel's place would be anything but a mess with everyone being miserable and the Jews getting all the blame.


How do you beleive this, since Judaism teaches non-jews are goy?
 
Well, @abiG is not alone in her way of thinking. I was surprised myself when I learned more about this 'phenomenon'.
But, that's the thing. The 'phenomenon' is how these war criminals pretend to speak for the Jewish people and have the majority of the world buy into it.

Please, anyone, find me any of our Rabbis or Sages during our diaspora and prior to zionism that even suggested taking our promised land by force. You have 1000s of years and massive amounts of source material to find this.

Hint: I know of three instance of this in our entire history prior to zionism. And keep in mind that I could go on for days with statements proving the exact opposite.

From our Torah:

Isaiah 11:1-12
A royal scepter will emerge from the stock of Jesse, and a sapling will sprout from his roots. The spirit of G-d will rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and power, the spirit of knowledge and fear of G-d… And it shall come to pass on that day, that the L-rd will once again acquire the rest of His people…and He will gather the dispersed of Israel, and the scattered of Judah He will gather from the four corners of the earth.


Ezekiel 37:21-24
So says the L-rd G-d, behold I will take the Children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from all sides, and I will bring them to their land…


Our Talmud goes into far more depth on this. We have oaths to God that are key and throughout our history we have known to never even try to go to the Holy Land as "a wall."

Our most respected Rabbis and Sages throughout history have written specifically about this.

The prayer “G-d of salvations, in the four oaths” is a reference to the oaths of the Song of Songs. We ask G-d: Save us, for You have made us swear not to rebel against the nations, and we are keeping your oath in exile and bearing the yoke of exile.
--Rashi (1040-1105) - his commentary has been featured in every printed Talmud known to man

The messiah will gather in the Jews from exile. Whoever does not believe in him is denying the Torah, which says, “The L-rd your G-d will restore your exiles and have mercy on you.”
--Maimonides (1135-1204) - one of our most respected and most prolific writers and thinkers in all of Judaism's history

Again, I could go on nearly forever. The point? Judaism doesn't change because zionists say so.
 
You know there are times when I really want to like you because we actually seem to agree on a lot. But we are cats and dogs on this issue.
Because I cannot get behind bulldozing peoples' homes to ethnically cleanse an area to allow for a racial colony to be built on top of it.

This is happening this second and it's fucking madness:

Israel gives Khan al-Ahmar residents eight days to clear village
#Occupation
Israeli forces hand out letters ordering residents to leave their homes in occupied West Bank village by 1 October or be forcibly removed

Khan%20al-Ahmar%3Aafp%3A9-14-18.jpg

Israeli forces arrested dozens of people during a protest against the Khan al-Ahmar demolition earlier this month (AFP)

"No one will leave. We will have to be expelled by force," said village spokesman Eid Abu Khamis, adding that a residents' meeting would be held later on the issue.

"If the Israeli army comes to demolish, it will only be by force."

israel%20palestine%20west%20bank%20settlement%20village%20map%20graphic%20correct.png



https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...idents-clear-village-early-october-1107661105

Just no.
 
I'm actually surprised that the Globalist agenda hasn't had this like Number1 on their priority list
 
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