Squatting with a vertical shin

[deadshot138]

watched a few Matt Wenning videos and he’s a huge proponent of this as opposed to a knees forward squat. I tried out his technique and definitely noticed it more in my glutes and hams but I was able to hit parallel effortlessly with each rep. Might be my body type (fat) but this way of squatting definitely feels better than high bar with forward knee travel.

How do you guys squat?

 

[Johnny Mac]

watched a few Matt Wenning videos and he’s a huge proponent of this as opposed to a knees forward squat. I tried out his technique and definitely noticed it more in my glutes and hams but I was able to hit parallel effortlessly with each rep. Might be my body type (fat) but this way of squatting definitely feels better than high bar with forward knee travel.

How do you guys squat?

I always used a lifting shoe. It is like squatting with a a board under your heals. It allows you to keep your weight back on your heals and squat deeper. Many lifters will wear these in competition as well as training. Highly recommended for your stated preference above. Best of luck!

Exact pair that I have.

 

[spdrew2143]

watched a few Matt Wenning videos and he’s a huge proponent of this as opposed to a knees forward squat. I tried out his technique and definitely noticed it more in my glutes and hams but I was able to hit parallel effortlessly with each rep. Might be my body type (fat) but this way of squatting definitely feels better than high bar with forward knee travel.

How do you guys squat?

Not everyone is going to be able to squat with verticle shins. Depends a lot on your femur, torso, and tibia lengths. I tend to break with my knees and dont really try to sit back too much. FYI, Im a shitty squatter.

 

[Ilk]

A friend of mine trains Olympic lifting with a coach that has been in the Olympics. He also has lifting shoes and highly recommends them. Additionally he suggested me doing front squats instead of regular squats if I lift without shoes.

I honestly tried front squats the past week and as long as I keep elbows at 90 degrees it forces me to squat with a proper technique.

 

[jojoRed]

coach that has been in the Olympics

suggested me doing front squats instead of regular squats

No shit he's gonna recommend the front squat over the backsquat.

 

[deadshot138]

I have some adidipowers that I used when I did high bar squats, I like them. I’ve also squatted in flat shoes and without shoes at all. I feel like if you know how to root into the floor and maintain outward knee pressure, you can squat in just about any footwear, save the shitty spongy running shoes.

 

[deadshot138]

I always used a lifting shoe. It is like squatting with a a board under your heals. It allows you to keep your weight back on your heals and squat deeper. Many lifters will wear these in competition as well as training. Highly recommended for your stated preference above. Best of luck!

Exact pair that I have.

Wow those look like the Clarence Kennedys

 

[MandirigmaFit]

Depending on anthropometrics, this style may very well be MUCH better for you. Do you have relatively long femurs vs. your torso?

 

[DoomPatrol]

A friend of mine trains Olympic lifting with a coach that has been in the Olympics. He also has lifting shoes and highly recommends them. Additionally he suggested me doing front squats instead of regular squats if I lift without shoes.

I honestly tried front squats the past week and as long as I keep elbows at 90 degrees it forces me to squat with a proper technique.

The front squat is great and you should definitely train it, but not at the expense of cutting out back squat. As an Olympic lifter, he is training for a sport. That sport requires him to invest a lot of time specializing in the front squat because that's a vital movement in the Clean and Jerk.

If you just want to get strong and look good then you should train the back squat and try to get it to about 1.5x bodyweight at the very least. Your front squat is generally supposed to be around 80% of your back squat.

Personally though, my front squat is weak and it's been something I'm trying to fix. I worked really hard on my back squat and am doing around 450lbs right now. Hoping to be closer to 500 by the years end. My front squat is only around 250lbs but should be closer to 315lbs according to the charts. So clearly I have some imbalances that need fixing.

I've also been doing what's called the zercher squat. You basically squat but with the bar tucked in the crook of your arm.

This is a really nice accessory lift for the squat and deadlift. It's great for training your chest to stay upright. It'll really hit your abs, upper and middle back really good. You just can't do the lift and have a weak core.

This was my Saturday workout where I hit my new 5 rep max to determine my numbers for this cycle..

Barbell squat. 1x 5RM, 2x 5 reps (85%)
3m30s rest between sets

Front Squat. 3x 6 reps (85% 5RM)
2m45s rest between sets

Zercher squat. 3x 8-15 reps (85% 5RM)
1m45s rest between sets

Leg Press Drop Set. 3x max effort sets. Basically one set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do second set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do third set to failure. No rest between sets.

Leg Curl. 3x 20 reps. (85lbs)
.......Superset with.....
Calf Raise. 3x 25 reps (225lbs)
1m45s rest between sets.


And that's it. I do that exact workout for the entire cycle and basically increase the weight by a few percentage points each session until I get to the end of the cycle and then I'll retest my maxes and start over with different intensity and rep ranges. I rotate between hypertrophy, strength, speed/power, and deload cycles.

 

[Ilk]

The front squat is great and you should definitely train it, but not at the expense of cutting out back squat. As an Olympic lifter, he is training for a sport. That sport requires him to invest a lot of time specializing in the front squat because that's a vital movement in the Clean and Jerk.

If you just want to get strong and look good then you should train the back squat and try to get it to about 1.5x bodyweight at the very least. Your front squat is generally supposed to be around 80% of your back squat.

Personally though, my front squat is weak and it's been something I'm trying to fix. I worked really hard on my back squat and am doing around 450lbs right now. Hoping to be closer to 500 by the years end. My front squat is only around 250lbs but should be closer to 315lbs according to the charts. So clearly I have some imbalances that need fixing.

I've also been doing what's called the zercher squat. You basically squat but with the bar tucked in the crook of your arm.

This is a really nice accessory lift for the squat and deadlift. It's great for training your chest to stay upright. It'll really hit your abs, upper and middle back really good. You just can't do the lift and have a weak core.

This was my Saturday workout where I hit my new 5 rep max to determine my numbers for this cycle..

Barbell squat. 1x 5RM, 2x 5 reps (85%)
3m30s rest between sets

Front Squat. 3x 6 reps (85% 5RM)
2m45s rest between sets

Zercher squat. 3x 8-15 reps (85% 5RM)
1m45s rest between sets

Leg Press Drop Set. 3x max effort sets. Basically one set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do second set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do third set to failure. No rest between sets.

Leg Curl. 3x 20 reps. (85lbs)
.......Superset with.....
Calf Raise. 3x 25 reps (225lbs)
1m45s rest between sets.


And that's it. I do that exact workout for the entire cycle and basically increase the weight by a few percentage points each session until I get to the end of the cycle and then I'll retest my maxes and start over with different intensity and rep ranges. I rotate between hypertrophy, strength, speed/power, and deload cycles.

Now that is a good post
Thank you

On a leg day I train slightly different right now due to having not much time for working out.
Squat - 3 warm up sets - 12, 8, 5 reps
main sessions - 4 x 5 - 70-75 % max RM for 5 reps, or 85 % RM for 3 reps
If I have time I add 2 sets of Front Squat for 8 reps with weight I feel comfortable with

DL - same as squat 1 day, or Romanian DL for 3 sets x 8 reps the other day

1 leg exercise - usually walking lunges, but often Bulgarian squad or normal lunges on the spot for 3 sets - 10-12 reps per leg
super setted with lat rises - cause I can literally start them right after I finish walking with the dumbbells

last is a supper set of calf rises and hamstring curls. I do calf rises only on weeks I have not played soccer or plan not to play soccer.

That is 2x per week. 2 weeks working with 5 reps on 70, 75 %, 1 week on 3 reps on 85% rep range. Still a huge newbie though. I do not rest much between sets right now, so I used my past 1 RMs. As soon as I find time to work out longer I will change a bit.

 

[spdrew2143]

The front squat is great and you should definitely train it, but not at the expense of cutting out back squat. As an Olympic lifter, he is training for a sport. That sport requires him to invest a lot of time specializing in the front squat because that's a vital movement in the Clean and Jerk.

If you just want to get strong and look good then you should train the back squat and try to get it to about 1.5x bodyweight at the very least. Your front squat is generally supposed to be around 80% of your back squat.

Personally though, my front squat is weak and it's been something I'm trying to fix. I worked really hard on my back squat and am doing around 450lbs right now. Hoping to be closer to 500 by the years end. My front squat is only around 250lbs but should be closer to 315lbs according to the charts. So clearly I have some imbalances that need fixing.

I've also been doing what's called the zercher squat. You basically squat but with the bar tucked in the crook of your arm.

This is a really nice accessory lift for the squat and deadlift. It's great for training your chest to stay upright. It'll really hit your abs, upper and middle back really good. You just can't do the lift and have a weak core.

This was my Saturday workout where I hit my new 5 rep max to determine my numbers for this cycle..

Barbell squat. 1x 5RM, 2x 5 reps (85%)
3m30s rest between sets

Front Squat. 3x 6 reps (85% 5RM)
2m45s rest between sets

Zercher squat. 3x 8-15 reps (85% 5RM)
1m45s rest between sets

Leg Press Drop Set. 3x max effort sets. Basically one set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do second set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do third set to failure. No rest between sets.

Leg Curl. 3x 20 reps. (85lbs)
.......Superset with.....
Calf Raise. 3x 25 reps (225lbs)
1m45s rest between sets.


And that's it. I do that exact workout for the entire cycle and basically increase the weight by a few percentage points each session until I get to the end of the cycle and then I'll retest my maxes and start over with different intensity and rep ranges. I rotate between hypertrophy, strength, speed/power, and deload cycles.

You're doing zerchers for 3x8-15@85% of your 5rm? Not sure if I understand your percentages or reasoning for the set/rep range. Also, Im not sure if you understand how to program dynamic work.

Personally, I think zercher squats are overrated. I know a lot of people think zerchers are badass, but realistically they're impractical. What Ive found is once you have a decent level of strength, the limiting factor becomes your pain threshold. I think there are other excercises that are better options.

 

[deadshot138]

Depending on anthropometrics, this style may very well be MUCH better for you. Do you have relatively long femurs vs. your torso?

Eh I think they’re pretty proportionate

 

[DoomPatrol]

You're doing zerchers for 3x8-15@85% of your 5rm? Not sure if I understand your percentages or reasoning for the set/rep range. Also, Im not sure if you understand how to program dynamic work.

Personally, I think zercher squats are overrated. I know a lot of people think zerchers are badass, but realistically they're impractical. What Ive found is once you have a decent level of strength, the limiting factor becomes your pain threshold. I think there are other excercises that are better options.

My coach definitely understands how to program dynamic effort work. We literally just won the state championship and he's been coaching for a long time.

Yes, that's basically how we are doing the zercher. It's an assistance exercise to the squat, not really dynamic effort and more hypertrophy and endurance. Since yes, you don't want to go too heavy because your arm strength becomes a limiting factor. But based on my 5RM with zercher, we do 85% of that and do it for reps. I've found it works wonders for my middle back and keeping my chest upright. You can easily program zercher squats up to 315lbs no problem. Anymore than that and youre probably better off with something different.

 

[spdrew2143]

My coach definitely understands how to program dynamic effort work. We literally just won the state championship and he's been coaching for a long time.

Yes, that's basically how we are doing the zercher. It's an assistance exercise to the squat, not really dynamic effort and more hypertrophy and endurance. Since yes, you don't want to go too heavy because your arm strength becomes a limiting factor. But based on my 5RM with zercher, we do 85% of that and do it for reps. I've found it works wonders for my middle back and keeping my chest upright. You can easily program zercher squats up to 315lbs no problem. Anymore than that and youre probably better off with something different.

The state championship in what? Football, track, speech and debate?

 

[spdrew2143]

The front squat is great and you should definitely train it, but not at the expense of cutting out back squat. As an Olympic lifter, he is training for a sport. That sport requires him to invest a lot of time specializing in the front squat because that's a vital movement in the Clean and Jerk.

If you just want to get strong and look good then you should train the back squat and try to get it to about 1.5x bodyweight at the very least. Your front squat is generally supposed to be around 80% of your back squat.

Personally though, my front squat is weak and it's been something I'm trying to fix. I worked really hard on my back squat and am doing around 450lbs right now. Hoping to be closer to 500 by the years end. My front squat is only around 250lbs but should be closer to 315lbs according to the charts. So clearly I have some imbalances that need fixing.

I've also been doing what's called the zercher squat. You basically squat but with the bar tucked in the crook of your arm.

This is a really nice accessory lift for the squat and deadlift. It's great for training your chest to stay upright. It'll really hit your abs, upper and middle back really good. You just can't do the lift and have a weak core.

This was my Saturday workout where I hit my new 5 rep max to determine my numbers for this cycle..

Barbell squat. 1x 5RM, 2x 5 reps (85%)
3m30s rest between sets

Front Squat. 3x 6 reps (85% 5RM)
2m45s rest between sets

Zercher squat. 3x 8-15 reps (85% 5RM)
1m45s rest between sets

Leg Press Drop Set. 3x max effort sets. Basically one set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do second set to failure. Pull 45lbs and do third set to failure. No rest between sets.

Leg Curl. 3x 20 reps. (85lbs)
.......Superset with.....
Calf Raise. 3x 25 reps (225lbs)
1m45s rest between sets.


And that's it. I do that exact workout for the entire cycle and basically increase the weight by a few percentage points each session until I get to the end of the cycle and then I'll retest my maxes and start over with different intensity and rep ranges. I rotate between hypertrophy, strength, speed/power, and deload cycles.

I guess I really don't have enough iformation to truly critique your coaches program, but from what I can see a lot of it doesn't make sense. You should be rotating your supplemental and accesory lifts during each training cycle instead of running the same ones continuosly. Also, I'm not sure if you understand a lot of the terms like "cycle."

 

[spdrew2143]

Now that is a good post
Thank you

On a leg day I train slightly different right now due to having not much time for working out.
Squat - 3 warm up sets - 12, 8, 5 reps
main sessions - 4 x 5 - 70-75 % max RM for 5 reps, or 85 % RM for 3 reps
If I have time I add 2 sets of Front Squat for 8 reps with weight I feel comfortable with

DL - same as squat 1 day, or Romanian DL for 3 sets x 8 reps the other day

1 leg exercise - usually walking lunges, but often Bulgarian squad or normal lunges on the spot for 3 sets - 10-12 reps per leg
super setted with lat rises - cause I can literally start them right after I finish walking with the dumbbells

last is a supper set of calf rises and hamstring curls. I do calf rises only on weeks I have not played soccer or plan not to play soccer.

That is 2x per week. 2 weeks working with 5 reps on 70, 75 %, 1 week on 3 reps on 85% rep range. Still a huge newbie though. I do not rest much between sets right now, so I used my past 1 RMs. As soon as I find time to work out longer I will change a bit.

I would suggest you follow a structured program if youre a newbie. However, if you want to make your own program at least try to use prilepins chart once in awhile.

 

[DoomPatrol]

The state championship in what? Football, track, speech and debate?

USA Powerlifting. Georgia State Championships was the last meet we went to.

We had guys take 1st, 3rd in men's raw open and others placed 1st in bench single.

Our team goes to pretty much every meet in the state and I've never seen us fail to make top 3 in one class or another.

I guess I really don't have enough iformation to truly critique your coaches program, but from what I can see a lot of it doesn't make sense. You should be rotating your supplemental and accesory lifts during each training cycle instead of running the same ones continuosly. Also, I'm not sure if you understand a lot of the terms like "cycle."

What he calls a cycle usually runs about 4-6 weeks from what it seems. The accessory work stays the same and seems to increase linearly in weight. I thought that's what I said is that we rotate the accessory work at the end of each cycle. It's usually based on his observations of sticking/weak points as far as what work he assigns.

Honestly man I don't know you or what you know, but I do know what my coach knows and who he's produced. He's been a certified coach for nearly 30 years and he has every book you can think of about powerlifting and S&C. So I know for a fact he understands something as basic as dynamic effort. I've made better gains under him than I did for years running Texas Method by myself. Every cycle I'm hitting new PRs, so I'm going to assume you just don't understand what he's doing. Fuck, I don't fully understand half the time. He's got a dozen different Excel files tracking all our lifts. I go in and look at the chart to see what I need to do that day, and I do it.

It's just hard to say he's doing it wrong when he's winning meets and we're all getting stronger don't you think? If we weren't getting stronger every week and winning meets then I would agree that something isn't right.

 

[spdrew2143]

USA Powerlifting. Georgia State Championships was the last meet we went to.

We had guys take 1st, 3rd in men's raw open and others placed 1st in bench single.

Our team goes to pretty much every meet in the state and I've never seen us fail to make top 3 in one class or another.



What he calls a cycle usually runs about 4-6 weeks from what it seems. The accessory work stays the same and seems to increase linearly in weight. I thought that's what I said is that we rotate the accessory work at the end of each cycle. It's usually based on his observations of sticking/weak points as far as what work he assigns.

Honestly man I don't know you or what you know, but I do know what my coach knows and who he's produced. He's been a certified coach for nearly 30 years and he has every book you can think of about powerlifting and S&C. So I know for a fact he understands something as basic as dynamic effort. I've made better gains under him than I did for years running Texas Method by myself. Every cycle I'm hitting new PRs, so I'm going to assume you just don't understand what he's doing. Fuck, I don't fully understand half the time. He's got a dozen different Excel files tracking all our lifts. I go in and look at the chart to see what I need to do that day, and I do it.

It's just hard to say he's doing it wrong when he's winning meets and we're all getting stronger don't you think? If we weren't getting stronger every week and winning meets then I would agree that something isn't right.

I suppose a lot of it was the way you worded it. You really don't have a deload cycle, a deload is part of your training cycle or program. Also, most people don't run a seperate dynamic cycle or block.

As for the "state champions" in powerlifting, I don't hold that in very high regard. State championship, regionals, etc. aren't usually highly competitive. Most of the national level lifters don't even bother to lift in local meets unless they're trying to qualify for a big meet. I'm not trying to be overly negative, but placing top 3 in a weightclass at a local meet isn't a huge achievement. Our usapl state championship was last month and 1455 in the 205 class took silver. Not a bad total total, but nothing spectacular. I believe bronze was something like 1370. Most of the time at a local meet around a 400-450 wilks will win a weightclass. My point is I'm familiar enough with powerlifting to know that "top 3 at state" or "state champions" doesn't mean a whole lot. I think the hardest part about putting together a good powerlifting team is finding and organizing people that all want to lift at the same meet.

 

[chubbman]

You're doing zerchers for 3x8-15@85% of your 5rm? Not sure if I understand your percentages or reasoning for the set/rep range. Also, Im not sure if you understand how to program dynamic work.

Personally, I think zercher squats are overrated. I know a lot of people think zerchers are badass, but realistically they're impractical. What Ive found is once you have a decent level of strength, the limiting factor becomes your pain threshold. I think there are other excercises that are better options.

I love zercher squats, feel more natural for me that a back squat.

 

[Ilk]

I would suggest you follow a structured program if youre a newbie. However, if you want to make your own program at least try to use prilepins chart once in awhile.

I have followed structured programs for awhile. I am not a complete newbie. Been lifting the past 3-4 years but no more than 3-4 months then having a 3-4 month break. This is why I consider myself a newbie. I am experiencing the newbie gains every time I start working out.

No idea what is a prilepins chart. English is not my first language. My program is crafted by me based on how I feel when working out, some basic knowledge about lifting and approved by a sherdog bro who has been following my physical activity and knows what I do. He is one of the knowledgeable posters here. Additionally I get advice from that friend that trains oly lifting from a top coach and conditioning from another top coach. I get a lot of nutrition advice from him too on top of work out advice.

My problem has been sticking to working out. However right now I am experiencing all the benefits from working out and I have huge progress in how I want to look. I weighted 94 kg in November and was very fat. Right now I weight 83 kg and some muscles are showing up.

So if you can elaborate what you mean to improve my work outs I will be happy. So far however my main problem is having no time for accessory work in a leg day after 9 sets of squats and 5-7 sets of DL.