STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

If you have seen STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI, how would you rate it?


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I’m pretty sure that in interviews after Return of the Jedi, he said that something to the effect of he wanted Han to be killed off by “those little bear things.” Legit made me laugh.

Although I tend to think if Return of the Jedi has a weakness its less the Ewokes themselves and more that Han and Leia's story doesn't have much edge to it at the end just being a lighter rerun of their romance in Empire, Han actually dying in order to destroy the shield generator might have added a a bit more weight to it.
 
Although I tend to think if Return of the Jedi has a weakness its less the Ewokes themselves and more that Han and Leia's story doesn't have much edge to it at the end just being a lighter rerun of their romance in Empire, Han actually dying in order to destroy the shield generator might have added a a bit more weight to it.

Return of the Jedi has a lot of great stuff in it. It just always stood out to me as the weakest of the OT. But I think that's just more of a credit to how much I enjoy A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Return of the Jedi is really in that same vein but just doesn't quite meet those two. The Ewoks never once bothered me. I can see why some might find them obnoxious lol, but I always thought the Endor stuff was a good deal of fun. Han and Leia romance was it's most weighty somewhere around the third act of Empire- when Han gets carbonfreezed and Leia professes her love for him and he says, "I know." That's some serious material right there.

Return couldn't equal that. I always found the moment sort of amusing at the big celebration at the end, before Han learns they are siblings, where he thinks she's pining for Luke. "When he gets back here, I won't stand in your way..." lol.

Last week I was just running the tread mill and Revenge of the Sith happened to be on. I watched the last 45 minutes and was happy I did. I really think I might rank that one slightly above Return. I doubt that's a popular opinion, but I find that film very compelling.
 
Return of the Jedi has a lot of great stuff in it. It just always stood out to me as the weakest of the OT. But I think that's just more of a credit to how much I enjoy A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back. Return of the Jedi is really in that same vein but just doesn't quite meet those two. The Ewoks never once bothered me. I can see why some might find them obnoxious lol, but I always thought the Endor stuff was a good deal of fun. Han and Leia romance was it's most weighty somewhere around the third act of Empire- when Han gets carbonfreezed and Leia professes her love for him and he says, "I know." That's some serious material right there.

Return couldn't equal that. I always found the moment sort of amusing at the big celebration at the end, before Han learns they are siblings, where he thinks she's pining for Luke. "When he gets back here, I won't stand in your way..." lol.

Last week I was just running the tread mill and Revenge of the Sith happened to be on. I watched the last 45 minutes and was happy I did. I really think I might rank that one slightly above Return. I doubt that's a popular opinion, but I find that film very compelling.

I like revenge of the Sith, and yeah in some ways it is better than Return of the Jedi although I really do understand the criticism against ROTS,

I think ROTS could have been better written but never the less its position in the entire Star Wars saga makes the film a good film no matter what after all its the story on how Anak Skywalker ultimately fell to the Darkside force and become Darth Vader and how the Emperor manipulated all.

And what I like about that film is there are no action scenes by Padme fucking Amidala.

Fuck that Padme using blasters let alone climbing buildings fighting monsters and droids that is why I can't take Phantom Menace and Attack of Clones seriously and almost ruined the Clone wars animated series.

Yes she is good material for the damsel in distress concept and maybe make her fight some thugs and shit, in some scenes its like she some sort of commando senator which is ridiculous and ruined it for me.

It would have been ok if she is from a Military background or a Jedi,or they explained why she is good with the blaster and can climb shit!

#PADME SUCKS!
 
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I like revenge of the Sith, and yeah in some ways it is better than Return of the Jedi although I really do understand the criticism against ROTS,

I think ROTS could have been better written but never the less its position in the entire Star Wars saga makes the film a good film no matter what after all its the story on how Anak Skywalker ultimately fell to the Darkside force and become Darth Vader and how the Emperor manipulated all.

It has flaws like all the prequels, but unlike the other two, I think the highs dramatically compensate for the drawbacks. There is an intensity and weight to this film that I just don't find in Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.

There are a lot of elements in that film that I think are extremely well done. Opening scene is a good deal of fun, but it's these aspects that stand out to me as great

- McDiarmid's performance. He dominates the film in a lot of ways and he is great both when he is Palpatine (the Opera scene where he explains to Anakin about the power over life/death is a highlight) and when he goes full cackling Emperor.

- Scene where Anakin sides with Palps over Windu. Damn, I think that's one of the best death scenes of any character in any Star Wars film. I'm pretty sure Sam Jackson was adamant with Lucas about getting a memorable death scene and he sure got that.

- The intercut fight scene where Yoda and Palpatine face off (awesome touch using Duel of the Fates music which is awesome) and Anakin and Obi Wan battle. The Anakin/Obi-Wan battle is certainly one of the longest jedi fight scenes- almost assuredly the longest. It's not the best, but it definitely was entertaining and the tension was there. A few changes and it would have been stellar. As it stands, it was still quite good. Yoda/Palpatine hurling senate seats at one another was pretty boss.
 
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From what I recall, Johnsons trilogy is still a go for something like 2020. I'm still hopeful. Brick and looper are two movies that made me incredibly excited for seeing Johnson direct a SW movie in the first place. I'm hoping being able to do his own thing instead of working with established characters and storylines will make me more positive about the result.


As for what people are saying, even in this thread I don't think any of the people would defend the kind of insults and harassment these people are getting. Well, maybe @Tiny would.
My problem wasn’t with his directing ability, but with the choices he made when he also wrote the film. That’s a new trend, right? Allowing directors to write their own movies? I thought writers (or a team of writers) handled the script. The single biggest flaw in the trilogy is the inconsistency. I cannot believe how much of a free reign Johnson was given. It really baffles me. The whole series should have been thoroughly mapped out before a single frame was shot. That seems like the simplest concept in the world to me.
 
I will be putting down some broken glass covered in cow shit for them to crawl across before we discuss their penance of expunging episode 8 and doing it right.
 
It has flaws like all the prequels, but the unlike the other two, I think the highs dramatically compensate for the drawbacks. There is an intensity and weight to this film that I just don't find in Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.

There are a lot of elements in that film that I think are extremely well done. Opening scene is a good deal of fun, but it's these aspects that stand out to me as great

- McDiarmid's performance. He dominates the film in a lot of ways and he is great both when he is Palpatine (the Opera scene where he explains to Anakin about the power over life/death is a highlight) and when he goes full cackling Emperor.

- Scene where Anakin sides with Palps over Windu. Damn, I think that's one of the best death scenes of any character in any Star Wars film. I'm pretty sure Sam Jackson was adamant with Lucas about getting a memorable death scene and he sure got that.

- The intercut fight scene where Yoda and Palpatine face off (awesome touch using Duel of the Fates music which is awesome) and Anakin and Obi Wan battle. The Anakin/Obi-Wan battle is certainly one of the longest jedi fight scenes- almost assuredly the longest. It's not the best, but it definitely was entertaining and the tension was there. A few changes and it would have been stellar. As it stands, it was still quite good. Yoda/Palpatine hurling senate seats at one another was pretty boss.

Yup I completely agree with your take on ROTS, Ian McDiarmid really killed it his performance delivered.

Like you have said the opening is fun a space battle and then they are confronted by Count Dooku! And the scene where Anakin cut of his hand and took his RED light saber is foreboding and then Palps just saying kill him and "Do it" with a more Darth Sidious voice gave me the chills!

ROTS is the only film I watched twice in the theaters, I watched it again after a week! And both times the audience clapped at the end.

And about the confrontation with Mace Windu and Palps at his office, in that scene you can hear the whole theater just fell silent in anticipation and when Palpatine's Light Saber drop from his sleeve you can hear some gasp from the audience you can feel they are waiting for that moment where Sidious will finally fight with a light Saber and some who are not familiar with the older films are really in shock to see that the fucking Chancellor has a Freaking Red Light Saber!

They where like "Omg its for real he really went full Sith you never go full Sith!"

I also like how George Lucas said in a book or something that Mace did really beat Palpatine in the Saber duel fair and square!

Its just so satisfying as we did not see "The Emperor got really dominated in Return of the Jedi like that! And as if that is not good enough we get to see him fight Yoda next! And we get to really how powerful Yoda can be! When he absorbed force lightning in his hands I was like no way!

Its like a UFC double main event lol!
 
Any chance we can fold all the other JEDI (-hater) threads into this one? I'd be interested to see how far in jumps from, where are we, 109 pages.

 
My problem wasn’t with his directing ability, but with the choices he made when he also wrote the film. That’s a new trend, right? Allowing directors to write their own movies? I thought writers (or a team of writers) handled the script. The single biggest flaw in the trilogy is the inconsistency. I cannot believe how much of a free reign Johnson was given. It really baffles me. The whole series should have been thoroughly mapped out before a single frame was shot. That seems like the simplest concept in the world to me.

There have been plenty of consistent writer / directors. James Cameron, Sylvester Stallone, Shyamalan, Tarantino, etc. The thing is, writing your own movie usually means it's something you're passionate about and that you have reverence for the subject matter. Rare is the case where someone actually wants to direct something they wrote just to shit all over its preceding films. Historically, that's been known as a Saturday Night Live sketch.
 
I'm pretty sure Sam Jackson was adamant with Lucas about getting a memorable death scene and he sure got that.

Yes I recall an interview where he told him he didn't want to go out like a punk.

Plus he just HAD to have a purple light sabre. So every other Jedi in the galaxy remained blue/green so he could be different with purple. If every Jedi could choose their own color like Sam did...suddenly his purple wouldn't stand out.

Stupid decision by Lucas, but whatever. There were a few of those is rots. Like the rationale for Padmes death.

It would have been cool to see windu fight the version of sidious that Yoda fought. :)
 
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There have been plenty of consistent writer / directors. James Cameron, Sylvester Stallone, Shyamalan, Tarantino, etc. The thing is, writing your own movie usually means it's something you're passionate about and that you have reverence for the subject matter. Rare is the case where someone actually wants to direct something they wrote just to shit all over its preceding films. Historically, that's been known as a Saturday Night Live sketch.
Those are good examples, but it’s not exactly the same. Those guys developed their own concepts, they didn’t jump into existing franchises.
 
Those are good examples, but it’s not exactly the same. Those guys developed their own concepts, they didn’t jump into existing franchises.

I think it comes down to intent. I dont honestly think Rian wanted to destroy Star Wars or anything. He wanted it to do something new. Its not a bad thing, he just did it in the worst way possible. By destroying a build up people were anticipating and leaving absolutely nothing in its place, despite helming the middle point of a trilogy. Its like Abrams built the foundation of a sand castle on a beach. Maybe it wasnt the most original or groundbreaking, but it was pleasant and served its purpose. Then Rian johnson walks onto the beach, stomps on everything that was being built then gasses it and lights it on fire while walking away and saying "You're welcome".

I think if he knew he'd be doing his own trilogy after episode XIII, he would have done something completely different.
 
I think it comes down to intent. I dont honestly think Rian wanted to destroy Star Wars or anything. He wanted it to do something new. Its not a bad thing, he just did it in the worst way possible. By destroying a build up people were anticipating and leaving absolutely nothing in its place, despite helming the middle point of a trilogy. Its like Abrams built the foundation of a sand castle on a beach. Maybe it wasnt the most original or groundbreaking, but it was pleasant and served its purpose. Then Rian johnson walks onto the beach, stomps on everything that was being built then gasses it and lights it on fire while walking away and saying "You're welcome".

I think if he knew he'd be doing his own trilogy after episode XIII, he would have done something completely different.

Great metaphor.

Johnson's antipathy for the big questions from TFA was sort of strange. It's almost like he resented that people were speculating about such things and wanted the audience to be sure that, NO this is not what this trilogy is about. What you think is critical is immaterial. What you think is relevant is pointless. Snoke's nature is immaterial because he's just a placeholder for Ren. Rey's parentage doesn't matter.

As you said, leaving nothing in its place is really the biggest problem. There is little intrigue for the next film.
 
Yup I completely agree with your take on ROTS, Ian McDiarmid really killed it his performance delivered.

Like you have said the opening is fun a space battle and then they are confronted by Count Dooku! And the scene where Anakin cut of his hand and took his RED light saber is foreboding and then Palps just saying kill him and "Do it" with a more Darth Sidious voice gave me the chills!

ROTS is the only film I watched twice in the theaters, I watched it again after a week! And both times the audience clapped at the end.

And about the confrontation with Mace Windu and Palps at his office, in that scene you can hear the whole theater just fell silent in anticipation and when Palpatine's Light Saber drop from his sleeve you can hear some gasp from the audience you can feel they are waiting for that moment where Sidious will finally fight with a light Saber and some who are not familiar with the older films are really in shock to see that the fucking Chancellor has a Freaking Red Light Saber!

They where like "Omg its for real he really went full Sith you never go full Sith!"

I also like how George Lucas said in a book or something that Mace did really beat Palpatine in the Saber duel fair and square!

Its just so satisfying as we did not see "The Emperor got really dominated in Return of the Jedi like that! And as if that is not good enough we get to see him fight Yoda next! And we get to really how powerful Yoda can be! When he absorbed force lightning in his hands I was like no way!

Its like a UFC double main event lol!


UFC double main event is a great way to think of it. lol.

What I love about Revenge of the Sith too is that somewhere after Kenobi takes out Grievous and makes his quip, the film gets dead serious. For the next 45 minutes, it is very intense and serious. I think that's different than a lot of Star Wars films where there is a good deal of lightheartedness even amidst the more intense battles and what not.

One thing I always loved too about the Yoda/Palps confrontation is that as soon as Yoda uses the force to literally knock Sidious out of his throne, Palpatine is ready to bail lol. Yoda then blocks his path delivers that badass line, "if so powerful you are, why leave?"

I found that great. Because you can't blame Palpatine there. He's got everything to lose and Yoda's got nothing to lose (everything's already been taken from him and the jedi) and has one shot to take him out. Why wouldn't you try to get the hell out of dodge.
 
Great metaphor.

Johnson's antipathy for the big questions from TFA was sort of strange. It's almost like he resented that people were speculating about such things and wanted the audience to be sure that, NO this is not what this trilogy is about. What you think is critical is immaterial. What you think is relevant is pointless. Snoke's nature is immaterial because he's just a placeholder for Ren. Rey's parentage doesn't matter.

As you said, leaving nothing in its place is really the biggest problem. There is little intrigue for the next film.

and if JJ corrects the damage done by Rian in episode 9, like apparently is being alluded to, then I feel mine and many others disdain for tlj is vindicated and justified. it also throws every argument made by the movies promoters out the window about how none of those setups by JJ mattered.

I still won't see it in the theater.
 
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