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STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI
- Thread starter Dragonlordxxxxx
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haha, yeah it's long and it's actually only part 1 of a series he's planning. Like any podcast, listen in the background while working or pretending to lol. He's worth it.I love you and all, but:
I just noticed that he did a review I enjoyed a few weeks ago. There are so many rage reviews out there, which I generally turned off a few minutes in. I can't stand loud mouth youtubers screaming at movies/games for being hollow while offering very little themselves. His stood out as he used footage from the infamous stream that went up almost day one. It was some guy in Mexico? filming on his camera in a theater, ruining the sound as he's digging for popcorn lol. That's how I watched it a second time, or at least for a bit, it was pretty bad.
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I'll totally download it to a file; lol I can't begrudge a dude dedicating this much time into discussing this kind of shit.
I checked out the other video, and yeah bathos is definitely a hallmark of the MCU system. I've often complained of the episodic no-stakes feel from film to film; nothing really ends in an MCU film. And while I am loathe to defend that type of film -- after having played the other side with a number of my Marvel-head ass buds -- I will say the mechanism of story is clearly at a more superficial level on purpose here. Not only to appeal to younger ages, but quite successfully adopting the sudden shift in dialogue tone many superhero comic books are guilty of.
I will agree there is no drama in an MCU film, but not exactly because the jokes are poorly timed. There just ISN'T any drama. It's fights, lights, and speedlines. Those character poses, yeah, are all self-parody -- not just for comedy but for the sake of disguising homogenized monotony. Boiled down: the question is How NOW can we make the three-point landing look cool?
Audiences hate the fact and oddly somehow even industry writers don't seem to always grasp it: movies and stories aren't exactly the same animal they may think it is.
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Maybe it's sad fans have turned their backs on Luke, but maybe it's all the same. I like the meta quality of it all; after all they're just turning their backs on themselves.
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Good post! Disney is known to have pretty sub-par writing. It's nothing new.
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Kind of missing the point, no one really cares about the "duplicate" jedi trick. The execution of it was poor along with the poorly written emo Luke. I didn't have a problem with what they did but how they did it. The majority of complaints have been about the writing, poor plot, depiction of luke. I haven't seen too much backlash on the "force projection", only him dying anti-climatically afterwards.
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The first 5 minutes he makes a very good point. If they had switched it up where the First Order is on it's heels and on the run while the resistance is chasing them and hunting them down I feel this would have made much more sense. It also would make Kylo have a more important role and we would actually be more invested since he's on the losing side and we can possibly relate. It would have the audience almost rooting for Kylo and the First Order in an odd way since they no longer would be the aggressor. It would also make more sense tying into the original movies where the Empire is defeated.
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Yeah, he definitely put some effort into it. I share a lot of his thoughts, but i couldn't imagine myself spending the untold hours it took him to write his script, capture the footage, then compile/edit it all. He and a few others are filling the void Red Letter media left behind. Their deconstruction of the prequels was epic. Now they just sit in a circle and discuss, though I can't blame them lol
I understand Marvel's lack of stakes too, as we know they're not going to kill of main characters, but they do hurt potential drama leaning on bathos too often. It never took away from the films too much though, as we knew what to expect. I've mindlessly enjoyed most of the MCU films, until Guardians of the Galaxy 2 that is. I loved the first film, but they pretty much doubled down on humor and beat anything that worked like a dead horse. The whole movie felt mailed in. ALl I remember from it was Drax belly laughing constantly and Groot dancing/looking cute endlessly. I think they hamfisted too much 70's/80's tunes too and not picking great tracks.
We're getting a little oversaturated in the superhero film dept, but thankfully we can all still appreciate
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I have given quite a bit of thought to this decision and has the same feelings myself. I had to wonder, though, if I was just inverting the beginning context of ANH; and it's been a consistent speculation of mine whether armchair quarterback decisions are in fact sound or merely reactionary and therefore highly dependent on the original source. For example, Would Luke being a ghost be a good idea in and of itself, or is it a good idea only compared to my disgust at his treatment in TLJ?
It makes sense that the Rebellion would be in the Power Position, but I can see how that may seem like the Republic is now the bad guys. Plus the decadence of the Prequel era Republic has tread this ground. It seems like our idea would have been more reasonable, since TLJ is trying to move from drawing such clearcut lines.
Still, I have to belabor the point that TLJ did not create this context.
That's exactly the point: ScarJo flouncing around. To expect more from a Marvel film is reasonable, but it is also going to be painful.I understand Marvel's lack of stakes too, as we know they're not going to kill of main characters, but they do hurt potential drama leaning on bathos too often. It never took away from the films too much though, as we knew what to expect. I've mindlessly enjoyed most of the MCU films, until Guardians of the Galaxy 2 that is. I loved the first film, but they pretty much doubled down on humor and beat anything that worked like a dead horse. The whole movie felt mailed in. ALl I remember from it was Drax belly laughing constantly and Groot dancing/looking cute endlessly. I think they hamfisted too much 70's/80's tunes too and not picking great tracks.
We're getting a little oversaturated in the superhero film dept, but thankfully we can all still appreciate
I don't see the problem with jokes being as poorly timed as dude here.
The problem I see is that Marvel's storytelling technique co-opts everyday realities and applies them to fantastical concepts, which is the wrong direction because, as the video says, it's a reductive process. What should be mythic is treated as commonplace, because everyone's approaching it like real people would. Or worse, in that Whedon-esque affected nonchalance. Normal people want to seem cool and collected and act not like spazzy cheeseballs, which is how some people confusedly react to jokes. (LUKE IS A NONSERIOUS IDIOT NOW.) That's why I say it's the wrong conclusion in TLJ.
A well-written MCU films goes the opposite way: using epic spectacle to showcase everyday realities. In which case, they should never act like real people but rather speak and act very specifically to their purpose in both story and character. The key to any successfully conveyed film is to get the audience to say, "Yes, I know that! That's me/life/irony/reality/myconcern." The film is the metaphor for the everyday, and as such uplifts the commonplace to the mythic.
This is like how people say Superman is an impossible character to write because he's too powerful and no enemy could possibly stand a chance. If you re-focus from the external conflict of Superman tropes, you'll see that a Superman story is, like STAR WARS, about inspiring hope. Superman's conflict isn't that he can defeat any obstacle, but rather his understanding that not everyone else can do what he can but they must be allowed to try. His grace inspires. So his conflicts are ideological, and his more assiduous enemies will make Superman doubt his own worldview. And if Superman can't believe in himself, tis a sad day for us all.
Tune in next time when I discuss the principles of writing a good character!
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We're on the same page here for the most part I think,. I like the use of humor in the MCU films and I thought Justice league used it well too. In TLJ it often felt odd and out of place. They could have removed a few of them and used those few minutes to explain how the first order came to be and why we should fear them. There's actually a pretty compelling story in their lore, but we have to go outside the film to find it.
It must have been a difficult position for Rian Johnson to be in though, having to follow up a script someone else established, from a universe another person created. In a way I admire him for having the balls to 180 so many established elements and try to make this film his own, but I'm not pleased with the way he portrayed Luke, along with a slew of other issues in the film, but I can't stomach typing more on that lol
Regardless, I soley put the blame on Disney and Kathleen Kennedy for not having the trilogy planned out, or the state of affairs in the galaxy explained (in the films) from the get go. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their production meetings.
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Very Happy HoganYeah, he definitely put some effort into it. I share a lot of his thoughts, but i couldn't imagine myself spending the untold hours it took him to write his script, capture the footage, then compile/edit it all. He and a few others are filling the void Red Letter media left behind. Their deconstruction of the prequels was epic. Now they just sit in a circle and discuss, though I can't blame them lol
I understand Marvel's lack of stakes too, as we know they're not going to kill of main characters, but they do hurt potential drama leaning on bathos too often. It never took away from the films too much though, as we knew what to expect. I've mindlessly enjoyed most of the MCU films, until Guardians of the Galaxy 2 that is. I loved the first film, but they pretty much doubled down on humor and beat anything that worked like a dead horse. The whole movie felt mailed in. ALl I remember from it was Drax belly laughing constantly and Groot dancing/looking cute endlessly. I think they hamfisted too much 70's/80's tunes too and not picking great tracks.
We're getting a little oversaturated in the superhero film dept, but thankfully we can all still appreciate
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Made me do some googling and found this:
https://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars®-Secrets-Galaxy-Deluxe/dp/1452159254
My birthday is in March. Just so everybody knows. March. Got that?
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I get the bathos standpoint with TLJ. And you know, Snyder would be a good example of trying to make the cheese serious, to varying effect. I like JUSTICE LEAGUE but it's a broken film, so it's hard for me to compare it to efforts unburdened by so much disaster. And yeah, that sort of difficulty helps me appreciate the final product like yourself:
That blew me away. I honestly felt the entire series had been in a tail-fucking-spin and TLJ righted the course.
but I'm not pleased with the way he portrayed Luke, along with a slew of other issues in the film, but I can't stomach typing more on that lol
@moreorless87 said it:
Another reason why I find it so difficult that my peers, grown-ass men, are eating up the MCU, which is one of the more obvious cash-grabs at the sacrifice of artistic expression. I think Feige's the wrong guy for film (but the right one for business) and Disney-fying outside properties is almost shameful. I don't mean the diversity, but the merciless business practices and monopolization.
Why must everyone keep tabs on your life? Buying books? Sucking dicks? Like when's THAT movie so I don't have to remember this all.
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He certainly has the most original origin plot point out of the new characters. If the new trilogy characters were introduced as RPG characters his is the most interesting though he's lacking in the personal quest line department. Rey, Poe, and Rose are old hat. They should have given Rose a different origin and story line or just left her out.
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Thats an interesting point. An ex storm trooper has a lot of cool angles for potential storytelling. neither movie really capitalized.
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I like that he's less spazzy from the first film. The worst example being gleefully blasting his former comrades during his escape.
On paper, it would seem like you could have that sort of cold warrior motif of an ex-legionnaire, akin to a Sith who may have redeemed himself but is still questionable. Has different sorts of ideals to create dynamic tension within the family unit. Someone willing to kill and to die with less doubt, and someone who must learn to soften up. Instead right away:
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This angle would have been fun to explore. The whole janitor thing is doing him no favors because it presents him as a very neutered storm trooper to begin with.
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I have a broken leg I'm recovering from. My dad passed away just before Christmas too, so to keep myself from losing my mind and balancing grief, I'm eating up tons of shows. I've exhausted pretty much everything, so I started binging Agents of Shield and I find it so much more compelling than the films. It's a bit silly of course, but they embrace the cheese. I had no interest in it because I was tired of the paint by the numbers (maximum $$$) Disney was using with the MCU films, but the show really surprised me.The first 5 or 6 episodes in season 1 were pretty Meh and isolated, but I really like where they've taken it story arc wise and how well developed the characters have become (just finished season 2). It reminds a lot of Stargate SG1, especially the closing theme. Have you watched it?
WHat are some of your fav shows? Curious to know.
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