State, feds hunt for gas blast cause in Massachusetts

[LMP]

Businesses don't take on burdens, they pursue profit. This means the customer pays all the costs involved plus the profit. Lawrence most likely cannot afford a brand new pipeline.

But they can afford catastrophic failure? I'm trying to find your angle here. You dont want to force utility companies to properly update and maintain their infrastructure, because the cost will be passed onto the consumer? So the consumer needs to be willing to deal with dangerous infrastructure so they can have cheaper services?

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Small accidents happen. Big accidents have fail safe, after fail safe in place.

Sounds like you've already reached your conclusion.

That's not much to support such a sweeping surmise.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

But they can afford catastrophic failure? I'm trying to find your angle here. You dont want to force utility companies to properly update and maintain their infrastructure, because the cost will be passed onto the consumer? So the consumer needs to be willing to deal with dangerous infrastructure so they can have cheaper services?

I agree this is not a simple problem. But say we do force them to update. They're going to look at the cost, figure out how to pass it onto consumers and then determine it can't be done. At that point they decide to stop selling to them. What now?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Sounds like you've already reached your conclusion.

That's not much to support such a sweeping surmise.

I have. I know gas lines are like flying, or nuclear facilities. They are over regulated to prevent just this very thing from happening.

All the accidents happened 50-80 years ago, and rules were put into place to prevent them from happening again.

 

[LMP]

I agree this is not a simple problem. But say we do force them to update. They're going to look at the cost, figure out how to pass it onto consumers and then determine it can't be done. At that point they decide to stop selling to them. What now?

Government controlled utilities? If a company can't provide services that are safe, and still be profitable, then why should they be allowed to operate?

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Government controlled utilities? If a company can't provide services that are safe, and still be profitable, then why should they be allowed to operate?

I say let the consumer decide what they want to pay for. If they're comfortable with the risk, that's their choice.

Now if you told them 10 years ago that their gas bill would need to be increased by 15% to reduce the odds of this catastrophe, what do you think their response would be? My guess is most people wouldn't go for it.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

I don't think we need to charge companies with manslaughter every time someone dies.
unless there was gross negligence, obviously.

They were upgrading the lines and they fucked up.
This does not mean they're not liable obviously.
Being at fault doesn't mean they're necessarily criminally negligent.

 

[LMP]

I say let the consumer decide what they want to pay for. If they're comfortable with the risk, that's their choice.

Now if you told them 10 years ago that their gas bill would need to be increased by 15% to reduce the odds of this catastrophe, what do you think their response would be? My guess is most people wouldn't go for it.

The thing about utilities is customers have no choice. If the service goes up 15% then that is that. If you don't want to pay 15% more for gas go all electric. They can also conserve more and use less. The company needs to offer the service in a safe manner. Suppose some people wanted safer service and others dont, how do you fix that problem? Do you just decide not to fix the issue because it is better for the bottom line? Screw those that want their gas delivered in a safe manner, their next door neighbor doesn't.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I don't think we need to charge companies with manslaughter every time someone dies.
unless there was gross negligence, obviously.

They were upgrading the lines and they fucked up.
This does not mean they're not liable obviously.
Being at fault doesn't mean they're necessarily criminally negligent.

See this is my problem. Someone told them they needed to shut down the gas to the area to safely replace these pipes. Someone possibly made the decision not to.

Most of us have some kind of mechanical knowledge here. Would you ever work with electrical when it was live?

Ok, so if they did shut off the gas, and the shut-off failed, we are back to square one. Shutoff valves have fail safes built in. It was negligence either way.

If the pipes themselves failed when they transferred extra pressure to them, to shut off gas, again they know this is pausible. Visual inspection of the pipes were required before the extra pressure was transferred. These inspectors are subject matter experts with decades of experience. If it was the pipes that failed, I'm willing to bet the inspectors raised the flag, and were ignored.

This is the deep water horizon all over again. People will spin plausible deniability for how the fail safe valve failed, despite the public clearly being informed that the blowout valve was designed to fail. BP failed to inspect the secondary fail safe mechanism in the blowout valve. That this was criminally negligent, and the senoir BP executives should have been held criminally liable, and BP should have been given the death penalty in the US.

This will be a very similiar story.

 

[cincymma79]

Everyone wants answers: State, feds hunt for gas
blast cause

LAWRENCE, Mass. (AP) — Investigators worked Friday to pinpoint the cause of a series of fiery natural gas explosions that killed a teen driver in his car just hours after he got his license, injured at least 25 others and left dozens of homes in smoldering ruins.

Authorities said an estimated 8,000 people were displaced at the height of Thursday’s post-explosion chaos in three towns north of Boston rocked by the disaster. Most were still waiting, shaken and exhausted, to be allowed to return to their homes.

Gov. Charlie Baker said Friday that hundreds of gas technicians were being deployed throughout the night and into Saturday to make sure each home is safe to enter.

Even after residents return and their electricity is restored, gas service won’t be turned on until technicians can inspect every connection in each home — a process that could take weeks.

“This remains a tremendous inconvenience for many people,” Baker said. “It’s essential for the crews to get this right.”


The National Transportation Safety Board sent a team to help investigate the blasts in a state where some of the aging gas pipeline system dates to the 1860s.

The rapid-fire series of gas explosions that one official described as “Armageddon” ignited fires in 60 to 80 homes in the working-class towns of Lawrence, Andover and North Andover, forcing entire neighborhoods to evacuate as crews scrambled to fight the flames and shut off the gas and electricity.

Gas and electricity remained shut down Friday in most of the area, and entire neighborhoods were eerily deserted.

Authorities said Leonel Rondon, 18, of Lawrence, died after a chimney toppled by an exploding house crashed into his car. He was rushed to a Boston hospital and pronounced dead Thursday evening.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bo...swers-state-feds-hunt-for-gas-blast-cause/amp

______________________________________________________

So, shouldn't whoever runs this gas company be up on charges already?

I don't know if it is public or privately held, but it seems to me that this gas company is guilty of manslaughter at best, and guilty of a terror attack at worst.

What do you guys want to bet that any senoir official from this gas company will be held criminally liable here?

My guess is about 0-2% chance that the person that was actually responsible for this disaster will be held to account.

This is why our country is in a perpetual tail spin. No one with power is ever held accountable for anything. These people know they can make decisions to save dollars, that cost lives, and they will get away with it.

Discuss......

Charged with what? What details you holding out on or just feel powerless and want to lash out

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

I work for the gas company in CT. They are sending us all to Mass today and tomorrow to help out with every. We had an emergency meeting Friday morning going over everything that happened. Shit is crazy. Going to be staying in a hotel most of next week working 12 hour days.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I work for the gas company in CT. They are sending us all to Mass today and tomorrow to help out with every. We had an emergency meeting Friday morning going over everything that happened. Shit is crazy. Going to be staying in a hotel most of next week working 12 hour days.

You are a good person to ask here. Am I wrong in this post below?

See this is my problem. Someone told them they needed to shut down the gas to the area to safely replace these pipes. Someone possibly made the decision not to.

Most of us have some kind of mechanical knowledge here. Would you ever work with electrical when it was live?

Ok, so if they did shut off the gas, and the shut-off failed, we are back to square one. Shutoff valves have fail safes built in. It was negligence either way.

If the pipes themselves failed when they transferred extra pressure to them, to shut off gas, again they know this is pausible. Visual inspection of the pipes were required before the extra pressure was transferred. These inspectors are subject matter experts with decades of experience. If it was the pipes that failed, I'm willing to bet the inspectors raised the flag, and were ignored.

This is the deep water horizon all over again. People will spin plausible deniability for how the fail safe valve failed, despite the public clearly being informed that the blowout valve was designed to fail. BP failed to inspect the secondary fail safe mechanism in the blowout valve. That this was criminally negligent, and the senoir BP executives should have been held criminally liable, and BP should have been given the death penalty in the US.

This will be a very similiar story.

 

[iNoScopedJFK]

You are a good person to ask here. Am I wrong in this post below?

I am not allowed to go into detail as they wanna keep this on the DL. I can shoot you a pm if you'd like me to explain the situation more. But you are in the right ball park thinking this is due to negligence.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I am not allowed to go into detail as they wanna keep this on the DL. I can shoot you a pm if you'd like me to explain the situation more. But you are in the right ball park thinking this is due to negligence.

I got you. There is shit I see at work, that I think I should climb to mountian tops and scream about until someone listens, but I know it is my job if I do.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Massachusetts police tweet lets slip scale of leftwing surveillance

At the height of Thursday night’s gas emergency that affected 8,000 people and in which one person was killed, Massachusetts state police posted to Twitter a map of responses to fires and explosions.

It was an image of a computer monitor, showing locations of 39 incidents as confirmed “by MSP Watch Center”, and it included a vital message: “Reminder: all residents of Lawrence/Andover/N[orth] Andover who have Columbia Gas must evacuate, as should anyone else who smells gas.”

But the image also showed something else: a bookmarks bar at the top of the browser window which listed several leftwing groups.

The bookmarks included a Facebook group for Mass Action Against Police Brutality (MAAPB); the Coalition to Organize and Mobilize Boston Against Trump (Combat); Facebook 413; Facebook MA Activism; and Resistance Calendar, which notes timings for canvassing for Democratic or progressive candidates and anti-Trump rallies.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...tts-police-tweet-leftwing-surveillance-boston

 

[lifelessheap]

A similar thing happened in California. There was a massive explosion. PG&E passed the financial burden to consumers and then used the customer's money to fund a television ad campaign about why our rates would rise and how they now "got" that safety was important.

Then PG&E and their refusal to maintain their lines caused a bunch of fires that killed dozens of people and burned down THOUSANDS of homes. So then they used their influence to make sure that the billions of dollars in damages would legally be passed onto customers. Their greed killed us and burned down billions upon billions worth of homes, so then they give us the bill. Neat.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

...and guilty of a terror attack at worst.

Seriously?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Seriously?

That was my shot at the idea that terrorism requires a thought crime to take place, for it to be terror.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That was my shot at the idea that terrorism requires a thought crime to take place, for it to be terror.

Feeling terror doesn't make the inciting event terrorism.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Feeling terror doesn't make the inciting event terrorism.

Terrorism is bull shit. They are criminal acts. Terrorism was a trojan horse for criminalizing ideas.

Go blow up a building because you are mad at a person. That is just a crime.

Blow up a building because you are mad at the government, or believe in a Caliphate, and it is terrorism.

It is the definition of Orwellian babble speak. It's the same damn crime.