Still doubt karate?

shinkyoku said:
No.He had already left kyokushin. At the time he was affiliated with World Oyama karate -a US based kyokushin offshoot. He may have been disbarred from them because of it, but I dont know.
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Are you sure it was World Oyama? They don't have any clubs in Europe so most likely it would be Oyama IKF unless he lived in the US for awhile that I'm not aware of.
 
JohnMc said:
Are you sure it was World Oyama? They don't have any clubs in Europe so most likely it would be Oyama IKF unless he lived in the US for awhile that I'm not aware of.
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He was affiliated to World Oyama for a few years after leaving kyokushin. I do not know how they handled it, it might have just been him personally or with his gym in the intention that he would be their branchchief in europe.
This was back in the very early 90ies. Shigeru was still head of world Oyama (and not de-facto replaced by his brother, and just brought out for special events when/if presentable) and it was long before Oyama IKF eventually splintered out from world oyama in 2004. Before 2004, the Polish dojos that founded OIKF was members of WOK -as was other dojos in Europe On the WOK homepage they mention that in the late 90ies, they had 150 dojos in 19 countries. Now they list dojos in 6 countries.

If you look seidokaikan world cup 1993 online (which was a event with invited fighters from several styles and arts.), he is fighting with the WOK kanji on the chest -although I think he has his own kamakura dojo logo on his arm, but its hard to see. Other fighters of note in the cup was Andy Hug, Masaaki Satake, adam wats, michel thompson, Peter Smit, Sam Greco, Taiei Kin, Nobuaki Kakuda and more -all still fighting under karate rules, but about to switch to kickboxing The vid in the link above in named wrongly. It was not the k-1 1993 illusion, but held a little before that. Gordeau, Sataake, Watts and Taiei Kin all later fought in K-1 1993 illusion under kickboxing rules. as did Nak Muay Changpuek kiatsongrit, who tried his luck under karate rules in the karate cup)
 
I feel like Gabriel Varga should be mentioned in this thread due to his Karate background.

 
shadow_priest_x said:
Is MMA a martial art?

The answer I have come up with is that it probably comes down to the gym. If it's a gym where "MMA" means that you train Muay Thai on Tuesday, wrestling on Wednesday and BJJ on Thursday, then no, I don't think it is. But if it's a gym that teaches MMA as a unified system of fighting that borrows from a lot of different arts and brings it all together into a cohesive whole, then I would think of that as its own style.
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Sort of, it is diverse across the board, but I would say the styles are more "clusters" based on the region. Clusters as in America is going to be very heavy on wrestling and boxing, Japan has more KK and Judo/wrestling, etc. MMA as a style is the same as Sanda. Sanda is a ruleset, as well with MMA, and they develop based on that. You want to win or have the advantage, you develop based on it. When MMA was first around, wall walking wasn't a thing, now its its entire subcategory of practice. There are camps where you specifically focus on fence work.
 
shincheckin said:
I feel like Gabriel Varga should be mentioned in this thread due to his Karate background.

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A Shotokan-based full-contact kickboxing champion? Excuse me while I get my tissues...
<mma1>
(tears of joy, not what you thought, you dirty pig)
 
ARIZE said:
I would recommend judo over both bjj and wrestling for self defense. They have the weapons of both worlds, in a level enough to be efficient. Aggressive take downs that can do enough damage to end it there + submissions if needed.

Then you have sambo, which has both, + striking offense/defense... One of the most complete art out there, in my opinion. (unless we count mma as an art)
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Not Muay Thai?! :D ;)
 
Hotora86 said:
A Shotokan-based full-contact kickboxing champion? Excuse me while I get my tissues...
<mma1>
(tears of joy, not what you thought, you dirty pig)
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You would love my father. He is a Shotokan purist. He can't even fit all his Shotokan medals in his home. And yes, there's a gold medal in there too!

/Proud off-spring
 
CFGroup said:
Doubting Karate?

LOL!

Spent almost a decade with a Japanese trained Okinawan Go Ju San Dan savage who joined our Judo school a few years after transitioning from TKD/Kickboxing.

Elbows, hands and fingers.

Knees, feet and toes.

trained like this..



America's Karate is watered down BS unless you happen to find a rare jem....

And if you do treat it like the gift that it is!
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Tony Ferguson tried doing this and tore his ACL. ;)
 
shincheckin said:
yeah i forgot to add in my post, the reason i was bringing up biting, is in comparison to how similar we are to chimps. our DNA is 99% the same, our bodies are built very similarly, and in human animal fighting, biting is a natural technique. Kids naturally bite all the time when they fight with each other but we teach them not too bite, blah blah blah, point im trying to make is its natural, as is grappling.

target points for biting, just as with chimps, is ears, nose, throat, and fingers. its really quite fascinating to me, and the science behind it. Its pure no rules animalistic brutal violent fight to kill fighting technique.

too sort of piggy back of my biting tangent, here we have your typical meth addict career criminal inmate, he talks about doing time at pelican bay and how he bit someones nose off in a fight. In this fight, we can see pretty much how a "wild" human would fight, the guy is untrained, as we can clearly see by his technique, nerd boy obviously has some stick fight training, however inmate uses brute force and aggression to just grapple and bite.



if anyone knows of any other videos of bites actually being used I would like to see them. The only other thing I can find that would come close is from a realistic movie scene.

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:eek:
That shit is horrifying... Obviously the kid has better technique with the shinai and did not waste as much energy etc... but with crazy motherfuckers like that inmate you never know when he goes full apeshit and just bites your face off. Even in MMA the crazy can sometimes beat properly trained athletes - like Datsik KOing Arlovski.
 
Hotora86 said:
Tony Ferguson tried doing this and tore his ACL. ;)
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I'm not advocating it I'm just pointing out the level of intensity.

Not sure if Tony used the sand pots first and developed the physicality correctly, but shit like that is bound to cause injuries.

Getting gripped by Dave is always a roller coaster ride and contact in Tsukuri with all those calcified bone surfaces at speed always hurts.

The throwing of Okinawan styles is based on close quarters grips to pull you into strikes, than destabilize and throw.
As we pair trained over the years it all blends together so there's always impact. I am use to it from TKD/Kickboxing and recognize it for it's brilliance, others more sport oriented in the club get miffed.
 
Hotora86 said:
:eek:
That shit is horrifying... Obviously the kid has better technique with the shinai and did not waste as much energy etc... but with crazy motherfuckers like that inmate you never know when he goes full apeshit and just bites your face off. Even in MMA the crazy can sometimes beat properly trained athletes - like Datsik KOing Arlovski.
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but looking at it as a technique to be practiced and utilized is awesome.
 
some Shin Karate footage from current K-1 Super Lightweight Champion Masaaki Noiri.

 
Yodsanan said:
some Shin Karate footage from current K-1 Super Lightweight Champion Masaaki Noiri.

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too bad this isnt what the world knows karate as. Karate like this is much better IMO than American Kickboxing back in the 70's.
 
shincheckin said:
too bad this isnt what the world knows karate as. Karate like this is much better IMO than American Kickboxing back in the 70's.
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Karate to me growing up (90's baby) got a bad rep from Karate kid and mcdojos. But Ryu from Street Fighter made me think otherwise.
 
Hotora86 said:
Not Muay Thai?! :D ;)
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I wont bite... I wont bite... I wont bite... GODDAMMIT...

You know I was talking about the blanket arts. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed is king. There is no point for me to add MT in the discussion. Every sane person knows it's the king of the hill of martial art, combat sports, self defense, or any type of exercise whatsoever, and even most of spiritual self improvement bullshits... like couple counseling, or karate...
 
ARIZE said:
I wont bite... I wont bite... I wont bite... GODDAMMIT...

You know I was talking about the blanket arts. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed is king. There is no point for me to add MT in the discussion. Every sane person knows it's the king of the hill of martial art, combat sports, self defense, or any type of exercise whatsoever, and even most of spiritual self improvement bullshits... like couple counseling, or karate...
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It's even LGBT+ friendly, with the amount of Lady boys involved and in Europe when I trained more I'm sure quite a few of the girls where Bi or Lesbian in the gym.......
 
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