Stop looking at mass killers as unique murderers... How to really stop this..

[Byron Carter]

In order to understand mass killers, we need to stop looking at them as a unique phenomenon. They are simply suicidal young men.

That's right - suicidal.

The mass killing is merely a fantasy, an ideation concocted in order to bring about the ultimate desire... their own death.

I'm not open to any new gun laws, but I am open to refining the ones we already have, and here's my idea.


#1 - Flag anyone who ever self-harms, or expresses suicidal ideation as unfit to carry or own a firearm. This would require a trial by a jury of peers if the person losing their right demands it.

#2 - Lift some of the HIPAA laws when it comes to mental health. Gun vendors should see flags if a person has any suicidal marks in their record.

#3 - Lower or remove the idea of "Sealed Juvenile" records. If you are committed to a mental hospital at 16, that should stay on your record. It shouldn't magically disappear when you turn 18.



All of this, in combination with arming and hardening our schools and other soft targets, will go a long way towards making a safer America.

 

[ultramanhyata]

In order to understand mass killers, we need to stop looking at them as a unique phenomenon. They are simply suicidal young men.

That's right - suicidal.

Do you really not understand the clear classification distinction in the literature between suicidal and homicidal ideation??

 

[Prime Rib]

Are you advocating more thorough background checks for purchasing firearms?

 

[Iceberg Slim]

In order to understand mass killers, we need to stop looking at them as a unique phenomenon. They are simply suicidal young men.

It seems a lot of them have been. It's hard to deter someone with laws when they intend to die anyway. I'm not sure what the unintended consequences of this could be but I'd be open to adding restrictions to gun laws for people that have shown suicidal tendencies. It may even save their lives.

I guess one concern would be whether or not this would deter someone with suicidal thoughts from reaching out for help.

 

[Byron Carter]

Do you really not understand the clear classification distinction in the literature between suicidal and homicidal ideation??

We're approaching this from the wrong angle. The "Experts" have had their way for 20 years, and solved nothing. Throwing your arms up and saying "Ban bump stocks" and "Limit magazine capacity" is so fucking stupid it's comical at this point.

The root cause of a school shooting is suicidal ideation. Before the fantasy of one last "blaze of glory", it's the eagerness to die.

The media and politicians are looking at this backwards - they're hunting for people with violent facebook posts, and instagram videos, when they need to be looking at the cutters and people with a history of suicidal threats.


Looking at every single instance of non-terroristic mass shootings: Ask how many of these people were looking to die? All of them.

 

[HomerThompson]

Are you advocating more thorough background check for purchasing firearms?

He absolutely is, and I couldn't agree more. We need much tougher background checks, and much longer waiting periods.

 

[Gregolian]

Are you advocating more thorough background check for purchasing firearms?

I don't know how you can get more thorough though unless they want to check like my taxes.

They call a federal database/background check after you fill out the form and shit so if the Feds don't have that updated like they should (or someone drops the ball like the Air Force with the Texas shooter) there isn't much that that system DOESN'T know about.

He absolutely is, and I couldn't agree more. We need much tougher background checks, and much longer waiting periods.

WHAT is a tougher background check though? I really want to know because as it stands you fill out the federal form and the clerk has to CALL either the FBI or ATF for them to run your name and SSN through the system.

 

[Byron Carter]

Are you advocating more thorough background check for purchasing firearms?

I'm advocating for a change in what the background checks are even checking.

I'd be OK with allowing convicted felons who have served their time without incident to purchase guns, but I think we need to crack down on people with mental health and juvenile records purchasing them.

 

[tonni]

In order to understand mass killers, we need to stop looking at them as a unique phenomenon. They are simply suicidal young men.

But they are a unique, USA phenomenon when you consider the rest of the world has close to zero problems with school shootings. I don't see why you would completely ignore the homicidal nature of their crime.

"Just" suicidal people don't go around shooting up schools.

 

[Byron Carter]

But they are a unique, USA phenomenon when you consider the rest of the world has close to zero problems with school shootings. I don't see why you would completely ignore the homicidal nature of their crime.

"Just" suicidal people don't go around shooting up schools.

I'm not ignoring it - I'm saying it's not the cause. Homicide is a means to an end. That end, is suicide.

These shooters desire death.

None of them to my knowledge have ever had an escape plan. The two that I can think of that were captured alive, probably bitched out and couldn't go through with offing themselves.

James Holmes dropped his weapon and walked out of the back of the movie theater, dazed and confused. Cruz walked to the nearest McDonald's and sat down and stared blankly into space.

 

[HomerThompson]

I'm advocating for a change in what the background checks are even checking.

I'd be OK with allowing convicted felons who have served their time without incident to purchase guns, but I think we need to crack down on people with mental health and juvenile records purchasing them.

Are there lots of school shootings in Japan, Russia, and France?

 

[ultramanhyata]

We're approaching this from the wrong angle. The "Expects" have had their way for 20 years, and solved nothing. Throwing your arms up and saying "Ban bump stocks" and "Limit magazine capacity" is so fucking stupid it's comical at this point.

The root cause of a school shooting is suicidal ideation. Before the fantasy of one last "blaze of glory", it's the eagerness to die.

The media and politicians are looking at this backwards - they're hunting for people with violent facebook posts, and instagram videos, when they need to be looking at the cutters and people with a history of suicidal threats.


Looking at every single instance of non-terroristic mass shootings: Ask how many of these people were looking to die? All of them.

You're clueless. You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should read some of the psychological literature before publicly shitting out embarrassing, bro science nonsense.

 

[HomerThompson]

I'm not ignoring it - I'm saying it's not the cause. Homicide is a means to an end. That end, is suicide.

These shooters desire death.

None of them to my knowledge have ever had an escape plan. The two that I can think of that were captured alive, probably bitched out and couldn't go through with offing themselves.

You fucking moron, this most recent killer went and got lunch after his slaughter. He obviously wasn't trying to go out in a blaze of glory. This thread is a pathetic deflection from talking about gun control.

 

[HomerThompson]

You're clueless. You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should read some of the psychological literature before publicly shitting out embarrassing, bro science nonsense.

He's just straight deflecting to avoid the gun control debate that's coming.

 

[salamander]

I think it's going to come down to a technological fix rather than any sort of regulation.

It seems that it's easier to invent personal force fields, or smart bullets, than it is to fix the angst that causes mass shootings

 

[HomerThompson]

I don't know how you can get more thorough though unless they want to check like my taxes.

They call a federal database/background check after you fill out the form and shit so if the Feds don't have that updated like they should (or someone drops the ball like the Air Force with the Texas shooter) there isn't much that that system DOESN'T know about.


WHAT is a tougher background check though? I really want to know because as it stands you fill out the federal form and the clerk has to CALL either the FBI or ATF for them to run your name and SSN through the system.

I want a full FBI background check, like what you have to get to work at a bank. They don't just "make a phone call". Plus, not everywhere has the same standard. I want a Federal standard, and I want more things to disqualify people from gun ownership.

 

[Byron Carter]

You're clueless. You have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should read some of the psychological literature before publicly shitting out embarrassing, bro science nonsense.

How's that worked out for us so far?

How about you read your shitty literature, and give us some actual solutions instead of "Hurr durr ban guns"?

Because if the left isn't willing to come to the table on something this small, you will never get any form of change.

 

[HomerThompson]

I think it's going to come down to a technological fix rather than any sort of regulation.

It seems that it's easier to invent personal force fields, or smart bullets, than it is to fix the angst that causes mass shootings

Naw. Gun control, and technology for gun safes, etc.

 

[tonni]

I'm not ignoring it - I'm saying it's not the cause. Homicide is a means to an end. That end, is suicide.

These shooters desire death.

None of them to my knowledge have ever had an escape plan. The two that I can think of that were captured alive, probably bitched out and couldn't go through with offing themselves.

James Holmes dropped his weapon and walked out of the back of the movie theater, dazed and confused. Cruz walked to the nearest McDonald's and sat down and stared blankly into space.

You haven't said anything about the rest of my post.

School shootings are pretty much an uniquely American thing. I don't see why we should stop looking at it as "unique murderers" when obviously there's nothing else like it and it's a relatively new phenomenon.

You're just completely brushing off all of the factors that make this an unique crime, pin everything on the perpetrators being suicidal, and then you go ahead and proclaim it "just suicidal guys." That's one way to come to a conclusion, I guess.

 

[Byron Carter]

You haven't said anything about the rest of my post.

School shootings are pretty much an uniquely American thing. I don't see why we should stop looking at it as "unique murderers" when obviously there's nothing else like it and it's a relatively new phenomenon.

You're just completely brushing off all of the factors that make this an unique crime, pin everything on the perpetrators being suicidal, and then you go ahead and proclaim it "just suicidal guys." That's one way to come to a conclusion, I guess.

What really makes it unique?

I Ideation
S Substance Abuse

P Purposelessness
A Anxiety
T Trapped
H Hopelessness

W Withdrawal
A Anger
R Recklessness
M Mood Changes

If a person drives off a bridge, it's a suicide. If a person swallows pills, it's a suicide. Use a gun? It's a suicide. Mass shooting? It's a suicide - that takes other people with them.



It's a mental health issue - particularly a suicide issue. Not a gun issue.


Most countries and periods in time have their own suicide styles.