Stopping the Belly Down, Tripod, and Stand up?

[biscuitsbrah]

So basically I have this one training partner who was an ok wrestler in high school. He’s not very good at pure bjj yet but he is about 20 lbs bigger and stronger than me.

Everytime I have him in side control he turns into me, goes belly down, tripods, and stands up. From there it’s very hard to keep control for me, he basically just fights hands or granbys and escapes.

The only option I have to counter this is when I begin to feel him turning into me and giving up his back, I give him my leg and allow him to get half guard.

If anyone is unclear I can explain it better. But this is a no-gi with a lot of wrestling for mma context. So we are always just standing and scrambling up. I’m usually pretty good at top control but the extra 20lbs of weight and strength makes it a lot easier for him to get away with giving up his back and standing

 

[EndlessCritic]

This is a complicated position. Is he hitting this with an underhook? Just framing in your neck?

If you've got a nightmare side control game, your opponent shouldn't be able to turn into you very easily.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

I have similar issues with the MMA fighters I train with. My go-to is attacking a guillotine and using the grip to turn them to their back. I don't focus on the choke; I try to take their spine off-line so they can't build up and stand.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

This is a complicated position. Is he hitting this with an underhook? Just framing in your neck?

If you've got a nightmare side control game, your opponent shouldn't be able to turn into you very easily.

No hes hitting this from no underhook. His far arm is literally just going across his body so he can belly down. Hes basically just giving up his back and standing

 

[asian-glow]

I hope I am picturing correctly what you are saying. When people do this, they should fall right into a front headlock, should they not?

I don't really mind people entering the front headlock as I have some offensive options from here.

If you want to stop it, however, I usually turn into the underhook and kimura grip it. Good position to step around for the armlock or sit up for the kimura.

 

[tekkenfan]

So basically I have this one training partner who was an ok wrestler in high school. He’s not very good at pure bjj yet but he is about 20 lbs bigger and stronger than me.

Everytime I have him in side control he turns into me, goes belly down, tripods, and stands up. From there it’s very hard to keep control for me, he basically just fights hands or granbys and escapes.

The only option I have to counter this is when I begin to feel him turning into me and giving up his back, I give him my leg and allow him to get half guard.

If anyone is unclear I can explain it better. But this is a no-gi with a lot of wrestling for mma context. So we are always just standing and scrambling up. I’m usually pretty good at top control but the extra 20lbs of weight and strength makes it a lot easier for him to get away with giving up his back and standing

this is the jiu jitsu mans burden most bjj guys always shit on guys in mma for letting guys get back up if u dont know certain details on how to stop guys from tripoding back to feat your gonna have a hell of a time playing top

 

[tekkenfan]

No hes hitting this from no underhook. His far arm is literally just going across his body so he can belly down. Hes basically just giving up his back and standing

so hes doing a running escape basically id have 2 options either try to take the back or shoot for a front headlock position work chokes or gaining top position again if your attacking it from a bjj standp point

 

[EndlessCritic]

No hes hitting this from no underhook. His far arm is literally just going across his body so he can belly down. Hes basically just giving up his back and standing

If I'm picturing this correctly, assuming you have an underhook/crossface, can you not just slide your knee across his belly as he's turning and enter a loose arm triangle choke?

 

[EndlessCritic]

so hes doing a running escape basically id have 2 options either try to take the back or shoot for a front headlock position work chokes or gaining top position again if your attacking it from a bjj standp point

I don't think he's doing running escape. The original post said he's turning towards him.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

If I'm picturing this correctly, assuming you have an underhook/crossface, can you not just slide your knee across his belly as he's turning and enter a loose arm triangle choke?

It might be possible. We both fight at 135 so we are both pretty wily and small, it comes pretty quick so hes already in front headlock or I have his back standing

 

[biscuitsbrah]

so hes doing a running escape basically id have 2 options either try to take the back or shoot for a front headlock position work chokes or gaining top position again if your attacking it from a bjj standp point

I cant control him from front headlock or standing back take. Too big and strong. Id like a solution that keeps him on his back, without giving him half guard

 

[EndlessCritic]

I cant control him from front headlock or standing back take. Too big and strong. Id like a solution that keeps him on his back, without giving him half guard

For what it's worth, this is actually a very common strategy in MMA. When guys on top in side control feel like their opponents are bellying down, they do put themselves in half guard to retain top position.

 

[tekkenfan]

I cant control him from front headlock or standing back take. Too big and strong. Id like a solution that keeps him on his back, without giving him half guard

yes you can its not justa strength thing i know tiny guys with great front ehad locks but since your mans already a wrestler prob wouldnt be the best

so your saying hes turning away from you giving up his back right thats his way of escaping not turning into you with a frame or getting a underhook

try this vid

 

[tekkenfan]

For what it's worth, this is actually a very common strategy in MMA. When guys on top in side control feel like their opponents are bellying down, they do put themselves in half guard to retain top position.

yeah not everyone wants toplay jiu jitsu with you in pro levels i really noticed it at purple when guys started getting better u can turk the elg in half which makes very hard for them to stand back up ect

 

[DatCutman]

Post your head side knee over his head (i.e., you've got him in a prime tea-bag position), pivot on it, rotating all the way around. Do a quick switch of the hips such that your hips are facing his back, and start to look for the seatbelt and work back control.

Conversely, as someone else said, you can pop up to knee on belly; I'd probably windshield wipe switch my legs, and go to the back from that path as well.

If you can't attach the seatbelt due to his superior hand fighting (which, if he's a wrestler, he is probably good at keeping your hands from linking while he stands), try to grab a hook and hit a rolling back attack.

 

[Zankou]

This is a perfectly legitimate and important escape. Saulo teaches it really well. I like to call it the ‘dead kitten’ because you let one arm lie across your belly and the other comes up like a little paw next to your head to block the cross face. You then hip out and turtle down. It is a bitch to counter if your opponent is good at defending turtle.

As for counters, there are early counters and late counters. Early counters would normally be to fight for an under hook or cross face to flatten the guy. Late counters are basically turtle attacks, of which there are like a billion variations, everybody has different favorites. I like to crucifix or power nelson to a brabo, but go with your fave.

 

[EndlessCritic]

This is a perfectly legitimate and important escape. Saulo teaches it really well. I like to call it the ‘dead kitten’ because you let one arm lie across your belly and the other comes up like a little paw next to your head to block the cross face. You then hip out and turtle down. It is a bitch to counter if your opponent is good at defending turtle.

As for counters, there are early counters and late counters. Early counters would normally be to fight for an under hook or cross face to flatten the guy. Late counters are basically turtle attacks, of which there are like a billion variations, everybody has different favorites. I like to crucifix or power nelson to a brabo, but go with your fave.

I just googled "dead kitten" saulo ribeiro, and the only hit was your post in this thread: http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/side-control-block-cross-face-or-blade-on-neck.2474715/

 

[Zankou]

I just googled "dead kitten" saulo ribeiro, and the only hit was your post in this thread: http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/side-control-block-cross-face-or-blade-on-neck.2474715/

Yeah, it’s never gonna happen. Dead kitten will never happen.

 

[rmongler]

Stopping belly down from back: nelson hold.

Stopping tripod from belly down: assasin-3/4 stack combo attack.

Stopping stand up from tripod: (if same grip as before, then) second verse same as the first, (if not, then) merkle.

 

[Rjay]

If you have a good cross-face it should prevent the initiation of turning into you to a large degree.

Lets say you don't have the cross-face and he starts to turn, you can easy transition to the other side then kimura grip the nearside arm, or grab the far sleeve to stop him from turning to his knees:



If you still can't stop it and he tripods then the video from Tekkenfan is pretty awesome.

Should mostly cover it.