Stories of Rickson

[Uchi Mata]

I agree with most of your points, but there were much better and higher quality fighters than the ones he fought when he was active.
Do you think RIckson would have beaten Sakuraba, or even Vanderlei Silva after Silva demolished Saku in 2 minutes. Something even the best in his family was unable to come close to. Definitely not. In that era, he would have gotten starched by Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr, Don Frye, Sakuraba, Marco Ruas, Maurice Smith, the list goes on.

Saku and Silva weren't active in the early 90s. I was very specific: Rickson was the best, late 80s early 90s. By the late 90s the game had passed him by, I'd pick a number of fighters from the late 90s or early aughts to beat him. Sakuraba would have been one of them, he's have probably had a tough time with Tito or Frank Shamrock too. Anyone who could stuff his weak TDs and beat the shit out of him standing.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

Ok, I stand corrected but in the correct time frame, I don't think he would have beaten any of the wrestlers I mentioned neither would he have beaten Marco Ruas or Tank Abbot.

 

[snowdale]

No it was a true world championship. 1981 I believe. FILA only housed sombo until the mid 80s I believe. Do some research on Google about Greg Gibson sombo/sambo world champ. Dude was an absolute beast.

Found the results. He won the gold medal in 100kg division in 1982. Well, I am not surprised that olympic level wrestler (both greco and freestyle) can win a sambo championship. I mean in sambo there is lesser competition than any of olympic grappling disciplines. Most of the judo guys here in Russia have bigger achievments in sambo, than in judo. For example being Master Candidate in Judo and Master in sambo.

 

[Ishaq]

Found the results. He won the gold medal in 100kg division in 1982. Well, I am not surprised that olympic level wrestler (both greco and freestyle) can win a sambo championship. I mean in sambo there is lesser competition than any of olympic grappling disciplines. Most of the judo guys here in Russia have bigger achievments in sambo, than in judo. For example being Master Candidate in Judo and Master in sambo.

There are people living in Siberia? There is Judo in Siberia?

 

[dsdoubled]

Found the results. He won the gold medal in 100kg division in 1982. Well, I am not surprised that olympic level wrestler (both greco and freestyle) can win a sambo championship. I mean in sambo there is lesser competition than any of olympic grappling disciplines. Most of the judo guys here in Russia have bigger achievments in sambo, than in judo. For example being Master Candidate in Judo and Master in sambo.

Yeah it totally makes sense that such a high level grappler would have success in another grappling sport with much less restrictive rules. Its like all he has to do is execute many of the moves that are illegal in his native sport and hes good to go. But interestingly, based on everything I have read about this, Gibson became quite adept at applying submissions as well. Its not just Gibson though, I think most of the medalists at world level sambo events have been highly successful in wrestling, judo, and MMA. Olympians and what not.

 

[dsdoubled]

There are people living in Siberia? There is Judo in Siberia?

A lot of the best wrestlers from Russia are either from parts of Siberia (Karelin, Viktor Lebedev) or train at the big Training center in Siberia in Kraznyarsk. Aside from the wrestling juggernauts in Dagestan, Chechnya, and Ossetia, Im pretty sure wrestlers from Siberia are the best Russia has to offer.

 

[snowdale]

A lot of the best wrestlers from Russia are either from parts of Siberia (Karelin, Viktor Lebedev) or train at the big Training center in Siberia in Kraznyarsk. Aside from the wrestling juggernauts in Dagestan, Chechnya, and Ossetia, Im pretty sure wrestlers from Siberia are the best Russia has to offer.

Well, Dagestan is the first for sure, then the others. I believe Yakutia has a great school too. By the way, here in Eastern Siberia we have great olympic level women wrestlers like Vorobyova, Bukina, Volosova.

 

[dsdoubled]

Well, Dagestan is the first for sure, then the others. I believe Yakutia has a great school too. By the way, here in Eastern Siberia we have great olympic level women wrestlers like Vorobyova, Bukina, Volosova.

Eastern Siberia huh? Id love to hear about how you ended up there. That kinda near Mongolia? Are you a native of Russia or living there for some other reason?

 

[dmwalking]

The legend of Rickson is largely mythical.

 

[Coconutwater]

I agree in a lot of the MMA fights there is footage for, Rickson didn't show the best wrestling technique even though he got everyone he fought to the mat. So I judge his TD ability based on effectiveness rather than aesthetic value. However I am surprised that Rickson didn't have better looking wrestling. He was a guy who crosstrained a whole lot. He was heavily involved in sambo/sombo and even dabbled in freestyle and Greco.

It’s my opinion Rickson used the takedowns he was most competent at.

The zombie takedown.

Rickson is my top 5 favorite MMA figures but he’s had huge difficulty taking down some pretty crappy competition, like that dude holding the ropes in Vale Tudo 95. That guy pretty much sucked and Rickson really burned energy and even ADMITTED to straining his neck prior to his championship bout with Nakai.

Amazingly, Royce had a pretty smooth double for someone not raised in wrestling. His form was pretty solid, though he rarely used it.

I think Royce didn’t want to get stuck on bottom during a snuffed takedown.

 

[Canada23]

Mark Schultz could have beaten Rickson if it was Vale Tudo or unrestricted strikes. He gave him a hell of a run without knowing submissions

 

[snowdale]

Eastern Siberia huh? Id love to hear about how you ended up there. That kinda near Mongolia? Are you a native of Russia or living there for some other reason?

Yeah, Mongolia is pretty near. I am native russian, so there is nothing interesting about me getting here. I just was born in this place.

 

[Slick_36]

Saku and Silva weren't active in the early 90s. I was very specific: Rickson was the best, late 80s early 90s. By the late 90s the game had passed him by, I'd pick a number of fighters from the late 90s or early aughts to beat him. Sakuraba would have been one of them, he's have probably had a tough time with Tito or Frank Shamrock too. Anyone who could stuff his weak TDs and beat the shit out of him standing.

Well technically...

 

[Gregoire1]

Karelin would massacre Rickson IMO during his prime (1980-1990 years).

 

[Uchi Mata]

Karelin would massacre Rickson IMO during his prime (1980-1990 years).

With no submission training? He would tap very quickly. He'd definitely toss Rickson on his head, but he'd tap shortly thereafter.

 

[dsdoubled]

Yeah, Mongolia is pretty near. I am native russian, so there is nothing interesting about me getting here. I just was born in this place.

Ever been to see the Ivan Yarygin Tourney or anything cool like that?

 

[dsdoubled]

With no submission training? He would tap very quickly. He'd definitely toss Rickson on his head, but he'd tap shortly thereafter.

Interestingly, there has always been reports that Karelin won a Russian National tourney in sambo. Its damn near impossible to find any kind of actual reports but he has stated it in interviews. Kinda adds a layer to this hypothetical match up. Especially if its true that Mark Schultz was able to dominate Rickson until he just got tired and was tapped out. Although a lifetime Greco guy like karelin wouldn't have a fraction of the mat skills of a guy who won 3 NCAA titles.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Interestingly, there has always been reports that Karelin won a Russian National tourney in sambo. Its damn near impossible to find any kind of actual reports but he has stated it in interviews. Kinda adds a layer to this hypothetical match up. Especially if its true that Mark Schultz was able to dominate Rickson until he just got tired and was tapped out. Although a lifetime Greco guy like karelin wouldn't have a fraction of the mat skills of a guy who won 3 NCAA titles.

Not to mention that Schultz trained with Pedro Sauer from the early 90s on, he's a BB in BJJ. I've never heard that Schultz dominated him (quite the opposite, actually), but I've also never heard any reputable accounts of their encounter if it even happened. I've never heard that Karelin did any Sambo either, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out since grapplers in Russia seem to do a bit of everything. Would be interested to see it documented somewhere.

 

[dsdoubled]

Not to mention that Schultz trained with Pedro Sauer from the early 90s on, he's a BB in BJJ. I've never heard that Schultz dominated him (quite the opposite, actually), but I've also never heard any reputable accounts of their encounter if it even happened. I've never heard that Karelin did any Sambo either, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out since grapplers in Russia seem to do a bit of everything. Would be interested to see it documented somewhere.

That account of the Schultz/Rickson encounter came from footage Ive seen of Mark himself talking about it. I believe the match/roll/sparring session took place in the BYU Wrestling room. Mark said he dominated Rickson position-wise but didn't have much submission knowledge. He said at one point he cradled Rickson for quite a long time. But he did admit to getting tapped quite a few times.The Schultz bros were way ahead of their time. You may have seen me post here about how Dave and Mark (mostly Dave) trained in traditional jujitsu and sombo to supplement their wrestling. Like many wrestlers up until the mid 80s they dabbled in sombo bc sombo was housed under the FILA banner until 1985 I believe. Many top guys like Les Gutches, Mark, Dave, Mark Kerr, Greg Gibson all dabbled in sombo bc most wrestling tounraments had sombo on Sundays. Id love to read more about karelin competing in sombo but Ive looked everywhere and not found anything.

 

[Uchi Mata]

That account of the Schultz/Rickson encounter came from footage Ive seen of Mark himself talking about it. I believe the match/roll/sparring session took place in the BYU Wrestling room. Mark said he dominated Rickson position-wise but didn't have much submission knowledge. He said at one point he cradled Rickson for quite a long time. But he did admit to getting tapped quite a few times.The Schultz bros were way ahead of their time. You may have seen me post here about how Dave and Mark (mostly Dave) trained in traditional jujitsu and sombo to supplement their wrestling. Like many wrestlers up until the mid 80s they dabbled in sombo bc sombo was housed under the FILA banner until 1985 I believe. Many top guys like Les Gutches, Mark, Dave, Mark Kerr, Greg Gibson all dabbled in sombo bc most wrestling tounraments had sombo on Sundays. Id love to read more about karelin competing in sombo but Ive looked everywhere and not found anything.

That all makes sense. I would expect a wrestler of Mark's caliber to take a guy like Rickson down at will and be able to stay on top, though of course he's going to get guillotined, arm barred, etc. if he's not versed in subs. I didn't know the Schultz bros trained in Sambo, though I am familiar with American wrestling's involvement in Sambo in the 80s and 90s in general. I may have actually seen that interview with Mark now that you mention it.