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Obviously. If you allow headbutts and knees to the head of a grounded opponent the wrestler wins 9 out of 10 times.
Unfortunately wrestling is very boring to watch and drives casuals (and a lot of hardcores) away from MMA.
Elite wrestlers at the lighter weight classes are also more explosive with their TDs, so that they may be a factor. For instance Kosch was getting taken down repeatedly by GSP in the first fight, but in the second fight he was able to stop the takedowns because he was able to time it and get the hooks in.I call this the grappler's advantage.
On average, it's easier to get a takedown/grab someone than it is to KO someone in the lighter weight classes. BUT the higher in weight you go the easier it is to KO someone. This is why at LHW you start getting guys like Manuwa and Volkan who can get by on power and why at HW nearly everyone relies a fair bit on power. Basically, a FW wrestler like Mendes can get hit by a few punches while closing the distance, but a HW wrestler like Lesnar has to be super careful when closing the distance like he was against Hunt. I'd say at HW strikers and wrestlers are equal. If we had athletic SHWs then strikers would probably be on top at SHW since getting hit once by an athletic 300+ pound man will take 99% of people out.
Anyone disagree?
Good point. Lighter guys will be quicker so they can close the distance faster.Elite wrestlers at the lighter weight classes are also more explosive with their TDs, so that they may be a factor. For instance Kosch was getting taken down repeatedly by GSP in the first fight, but in the second fight he was able to stop the takedowns because he was able to time it and get the hooks in.
If Edson properly timed the underhooks against Lee's TDs (as he did later in the fight) he would have defended better as well.
Of course, then you have guys like khabib who don't need speed/explosion but can slowly overwhelm you with his strength to get the proper grips.
So basically, being lighter helps to be more explosive w/ TDs so it is my opinion why some of these lighter guys look unstoppable with their TDs, especially those who excel at blast doubles like GSP, Mendes, Lee and such.
But to give you the benefit of the doubt, Romero is super explosive at MW, but he is a freak of nature so he doesn't count.
Can we now agree that in most cases a good wrestler is superior than a good striker in a fist fight?
I'm not sure it's actually possible to have a decent roster of SHWs who are athletic enough for that part to be relevant. You might get one or two actual athletic SHWs and they'll dominate automatically outside of flukey losses whether they are striker or grappler.I call this the grappler's advantage.
On average, it's easier to get a takedown/grab someone than it is to KO someone in the lighter weight classes. BUT the higher in weight you go the easier it is to KO someone. This is why at LHW you start getting guys like Manuwa and Volkan who can get by on power and why at HW nearly everyone relies a fair bit on power. Basically, a FW wrestler like Mendes can get hit by a few punches while closing the distance, but a HW wrestler like Lesnar has to be super careful when closing the distance like he was against Hunt. I'd say at HW strikers and wrestlers are equal. If we had athletic SHWs then strikers would probably be on top at SHW since getting hit once by an athletic 300+ pound man will take 99% of people out.
Anyone disagree?
I'm not sure it's actually possible to have a decent roster of SHWs who are athletic enough for that part to be relevant. You might get one or two actual athletic SHWs and they'll dominate automatically outside of flukey losses whether they are striker or grappler.
I was imagining a world where we did have a full SHW division, which can possibly happen in 20-30 years for all we know. The UFC actually has a SHW division. They just almost never use it.I'm not sure it's actually possible to have a decent roster of SHWs who are athletic enough for that part to be relevant. You might get one or two actual athletic SHWs and they'll dominate automatically outside of flukey losses whether they are striker or grappler.
Well boxing has never managed to have more than like 1 good SHW sized fighter at a time and they have been around much longer and supposedly have a deeper talent pool.I was imagining a world where we did have a full SHW division, which can possibly happen in 20-30 years for all we know. The UFC actually has a SHW division. They just almost never use it.
This too. We have the best wrestlers ever in MMA, and the top strikers in MMA are regional level or kickboxers, who, since kickboxing like MMA is a fringe sport, are as good as regional level boxers.It's hard to tell. There's really only a handful of decent boxers in MMA. There are no really good boxers in MMA. Conor is the closest and he's okay.