Striking> Grappling

DC, Couture, Lesnar, Evans, Coleman, Severn, Hendricks, Faber, Rousey, Randleman, Hendo,
 
We simply do not have fair and comparable information to make any claim on this.

Those who say wrestling is the best base and say striknig is not do so using very biased information as we have had far more top wrestlers in their prime come into MMA than top strikers from various arts.

Explain to me why a Tire Changer like Brett Rogers or a guy late to martial arts like Ngannou or a striker like Conor or so many others can come into MMA learn decent TDD and BJJD and have so much success because they have heavy hands and yet we would suggest that if jsut these guys to start came into MMA in their athletic primes and dedicated themselves to top camps they would not be able to have the success or more than a Rogers or Ngannou?



- Mike Tyson
- Roy Jones Junior
- Evander Holyfield
- Lennox Lewis
- Julio Cesar Chavez
- Oscar De le Hoya
- Pernell Whitaker
- Bernard Hopkins
- George Foreman
- Felix Trinidad
- Shane Mosley
- Manny Pacquiao
- Riddick Bowe
- James Toney
- Floyd Mayweather
- Hector Camacho
- Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
- Tommy Morrison
- Larry Holmes
- David Tua
- Donovan Ruddick
- Joe Calzaghe
- Miguel Cotto
- Vitali Klitschko
- Wladimir Klitschko


Imagine if the hundreds if not thousands of young top golden gloves or pro prospect boxers all entered MMA in their primes instead and with top camps and say why a large percent would not have top level success? Are guys like Ngannou and Rogers uniquely athletic and tough and heavy hitterscompared to those guys?

And we have not even considered bringing over more top Kick boxers and MT and Karate, etc in their primes.

so NO, it is really wrong and dumb to pretend we have any data to say what base is best.
 
The best base of mma is Probably Sambo.
 
Eli1015 said:
I hear all the time. "Wrestling is the best base for MMA". I disagree. Maybe before when nobody knew how to defend a double leg. But now if you are a high level striker you have the advantage over these part time strikers in MMA. And the evidence is in the UFC.

GSP entered the UFC with ZERO wrestling credential. He was a second degree black belt in Kyokushin Karate. He became the best wrestler while training all the MMA arts like boxing, kickboxing, BJJ, wrestling etc. Another example is another GOAT Anderson silva. He has 11 straight title defences and came from a muy thai background. Jose Aldo was Mostly a Dutch style kickboxer. 10 title defences.

Other examples include. Conor Mcgregor. Jr Amatuer boxer and mostly all striking. 2 Weight UFC champ. Joanna J. Muy thai world champion 5 title defences In UFC. Cro Cop. I mean the list goes on.

In my not so humble opinion. Best base is Boxing/ Kickboxing. Then spend years learning TDD an you are good because you will outstrike the part time striker in MMA.
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MMA is an American sport, and the feeder sport with the best infrastructure and largest talent pool is wrestling. Boxing has an almost as robust an infrastructure as wrestling, but the talent pool gets siphoned into the sport of Pro Boxing. Kickboxing, although not having such a preparatory system, has its talent focused on Kickboxing, and very few seriously migrate over to MMA. In other words, it is not an equal playing field, talent wise, when evaluating what base is best for MMA.

With that being said, there is a large advantage in striking due to the use of gloves, and financial incentive to go for the KO. These rules also benefit wrestling with the creation of Ground and Pound and judging criteria, that discourages risky submissions against the wrestler. So the base that mostly gets the disadvantage is BJJ. With wrestling and striking having the rules advantage, it comes to talent pool, and wrestling has the advantage there. Therefore, unless Pro Boxing dies, or the rules change for BJJ to get a fair shake, wrestling will rule MMA.
 
While I would say that "wrestling is the best base for MMA" is a bit of an outdated argument, it's still pretty important.

Today, I'd say that a base of Judo or another discipline that emphasizes leverage and body position is a substitute for wrestling, but more to the point is that you can learn takedown defense and how to get up without having a wrestling background.
 
Eli1015 said:
I hear all the time. "Wrestling is the best base for MMA". I disagree. Maybe before when nobody knew how to defend a double leg. But now if you are a high level striker you have the advantage over these part time strikers in MMA. And the evidence is in the UFC.

GSP entered the UFC with ZERO wrestling credential. He was a second degree black belt in Kyokushin Karate. He became the best wrestler while training all the MMA arts like boxing, kickboxing, BJJ, wrestling etc. Another example is another GOAT Anderson silva. He has 11 straight title defences and came from a muy thai background. Jose Aldo was Mostly a Dutch style kickboxer. 10 title defences.

Other examples include. Conor Mcgregor. Jr Amatuer boxer and mostly all striking. 2 Weight UFC champ. Joanna J. Muy thai world champion 5 title defences In UFC. Cro Cop. I mean the list goes on.

In my not so humble opinion. Best base is Boxing/ Kickboxing. Then spend years learning TDD an you are good because you will outstrike the part time striker in MMA.
Click to expand...

Wrong! GSP is a complete MMA artists with obviously more talent in the grappling department. LOL i took karate as well and I don't even would consider myself a "karate" guy unless you are at the level of Machida. When we speak about wrestling base is a strong real wrestling base not just a karate practitioner at a local dojo.
Conor Mcgregor in reality is a one weight champion vs mostly smaller shorter guys. He only have one fight at lightweight so you can call him a lightweight fighter as yet.
 
srxon said:
Yes but when GSP meet elite Wrestler for first time he looses. Even if judges didnt count win for Hendricks. (he win by split)
Click to expand...
GSP won the fight 3 rounds to 2.

What your face looks like at the end is not part of the scoring criteria.
 
Eli1015 said:
I hear all the time. "Wrestling is the best base for MMA". I disagree. Maybe before when nobody knew how to defend a double leg. But now if you are a high level striker you have the advantage over these part time strikers in MMA. And the evidence is in the UFC.

GSP entered the UFC with ZERO wrestling credential. He was a second degree black belt in Kyokushin Karate. He became the best wrestler while training all the MMA arts like boxing, kickboxing, BJJ, wrestling etc. Another example is another GOAT Anderson silva. He has 11 straight title defences and came from a muy thai background. Jose Aldo was Mostly a Dutch style kickboxer. 10 title defences.

Other examples include. Conor Mcgregor. Jr Amatuer boxer and mostly all striking. 2 Weight UFC champ. Joanna J. Muy thai world champion 5 title defences In UFC. Cro Cop. I mean the list goes on.

In my not so humble opinion. Best base is Boxing/ Kickboxing. Then spend years learning TDD an you are good because you will outstrike the part time striker in MMA.
Click to expand...
GSP trained wrestling for 2 years prior to his UFC debut.
 
Eli1015 said:
I hear all the time. "Wrestling is the best base for MMA". I disagree. Maybe before when nobody knew how to defend a double leg. But now if you are a high level striker you have the advantage over these part time strikers in MMA. And the evidence is in the UFC.

GSP entered the UFC with ZERO wrestling credential. He was a second degree black belt in Kyokushin Karate. He became the best wrestler while training all the MMA arts like boxing, kickboxing, BJJ, wrestling etc. Another example is another GOAT Anderson silva. He has 11 straight title defences and came from a muy thai background. Jose Aldo was Mostly a Dutch style kickboxer. 10 title defences.

Other examples include. Conor Mcgregor. Jr Amatuer boxer and mostly all striking. 2 Weight UFC champ. Joanna J. Muy thai world champion 5 title defences In UFC. Cro Cop. I mean the list goes on.

In my not so humble opinion. Best base is Boxing/ Kickboxing. Then spend years learning TDD an you are good because you will outstrike the part time striker in MMA.
Click to expand...

The last two events alone pretty much proved you wrong. Unless Barboza (especially) and Iaquinta aren't known as strikers?
 
MikeMcMann said:
We simply do not have fair and comparable information to make any claim on this.

Those who say wrestling is the best base and say striknig is not do so using very biased information as we have had far more top wrestlers in their prime come into MMA than top strikers from various arts.

Explain to me why a Tire Changer like Brett Rogers or a guy late to martial arts like Ngannou or a striker like Conor or so many others can come into MMA learn decent TDD and BJJD and have so much success because they have heavy hands and yet we would suggest that if jsut these guys to start came into MMA in their athletic primes and dedicated themselves to top camps they would not be able to have the success or more than a Rogers or Ngannou?



- Mike Tyson
- Roy Jones Junior
- Evander Holyfield
- Lennox Lewis
- Julio Cesar Chavez
- Oscar De le Hoya
- Pernell Whitaker
- Bernard Hopkins
- George Foreman
- Felix Trinidad
- Shane Mosley
- Manny Pacquiao
- Riddick Bowe
- James Toney
- Floyd Mayweather
- Hector Camacho
- Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
- Tommy Morrison
- Larry Holmes
- David Tua
- Donovan Ruddick
- Joe Calzaghe
- Miguel Cotto
- Vitali Klitschko
- Wladimir Klitschko


Imagine if the hundreds if not thousands of young top golden gloves or pro prospect boxers all entered MMA in their primes instead and with top camps and say why a large percent would not have top level success? Are guys like Ngannou and Rogers uniquely athletic and tough and heavy hitterscompared to those guys?

And we have not even considered bringing over more top Kick boxers and MT and Karate, etc in their primes.

so NO, it is really wrong and dumb to pretend we have any data to say what base is best.
Click to expand...
This
Theres no criteria to get into the ufc guys nor are the best from most striking arts taking up the sport
Its a u.s based promotion that largely recruits americans so unshockingly the martial art thats taught in most u.s high schools is very common!
Thays not to say wrestling isnt a great base its just we cant proclaim any base 'the best' and to be blunt probably never will given each base brings with it advantages
 
GSP got brainwashed by some aliens, they erased his memory on everything he knew about martial arts and replaced it with a non-martial arts like wrassling.
 
TheRassler said:
GSP got brainwashed by some aliens, they erased his memory on everything he knew about martial arts and replaced it with a non-martial arts like wrassling.
Click to expand...

Maybe he traveled to the alien planet to regain his fight finishing skills to use against Bisping? That would also explain why he had to take a long break from competition. Interstellar travel takes time.
 
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I always say, you can use striking against multiple opponents.
Not so much with grappling.
 
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