Supplemental Training for Boxing

[aries]

swimming is awful for cardio, awful, the only thing that's really great about it is it's kind to the joints. Running is awful for the knees, guys like Roy Jones (it showed in the ring too) couldn't do roadwork in the later years of their careers because their knees were shot.

What makes you say that swimming is awful for cardio? If I do a length or two of an Olympic pool I'm gasping for air, seems quite effective cardio for me.

 

[mozfonky]

just my opinion, i've heard different takes on it and I know some of the mma'rs (again, all together like a buncha s) who would swim but not run. To me, it just felt like (from what I remember, i haven't swam in 35 years) the resistance was so fixed that it put a cap on what you could do. For example, at this moment I'm fat, when i do run, i don't feel like I can change paces like I could when I was lighter and it hurts what I get out of running, I can't really sprint because of all the extra weight and I can't tear down my muscles like I could before. Anyway, different strokes for different folks. One more thing i can tell you, when i see a mma'r like conor mcgregor who wants to fight a boxer in his sport I already know what's going to happen beforehand, even though conor is riding his bike and all that other bullshit, I know that he won't have any gas much past a couple rounds, you've got to run. Not having gas is fatal, the only reason mma'rs get away with it is because they all have bad gas tanks.

 

[tekkennlee]

Is your goal hypertrophy?

How has this routine carried over to boxing for you? More pop behind your shots? Hands placed where they should be without fatiguing? More power generated in punches over a shorter distance?

Maximizing zero muscle fatigue and trying to gain more superior strength then my opponents when wrestling or using standup grappling and arm locking techniques and ground grappling techniques without the common fatigue and loss of strength, basically being able to control someone twice my size and out conditioning them if the fight goes to wrestling.

That's why i do Isometric exercise and use arm conditioning equipment to maximize arm strength and conditioning, basically being able to grab anyone of any size and constantly throw power punches without hitting a wall and losing a fight because of lack of correct conditioning and strength, either on the ground or standing.

Equipment like this. you can use this type of exercise equipment for your Isometric exercise and arm, grip and total body workout strength there's lots of different variation you can do, for increasing a different kind of body strength, then just doing weight training and push ups and even your calisthenics street workout, like Hannibal for a king.

Amber Fight Gear Heavy Duty Power Twister 75cm


Hannibal for a king


These exercises don't effect my speed or fast twitch muscles at all, i was blessed with quickness and they improve my stamina so i can constantly throw punches with the same speed and intensity from round one to round 12. Also hands held up high to block punches and kicks without fatigue and more power generated and not losing punching power due to fatigue and poor arm strength and conditioning.

 

[ArtemV]

I would recommend swimming, it is great for burning fat and is great for endurance. It also teaches you how and when to breathe, which are important skills.

 

[Sano]

Some real shitty advice in here.

 

[tekkennlee]

Some people use tires and other equipment which is perfectly fine but i think arm bar exercise equipment inline to wrestling with someones arms then lifting a tire, because your using more Isometric strength trying to grab someone and trying to hold someone down then moving a tire which is perfectly ok.

Here's Evander Holyfield training strategy, some of you can take certain points and incorporate them into your own workouts.
Training Strategy for Evander Holyfield
http://www.sportsci.org/news/news9709/hatfield.html

Your simply not going to put on crazy amounts of muscle mass by doing Holyfields workouts or Hannibal for and Kings street workout, unless with the help of Steroids or crazy genetic gifts from God, just look at Hannibal for a King and his strength workouts and his natural size and body mass, he's small and cut and has lean muscle mass because of non Steroid use.

Totally natural body weight exercise for strength and conditioning Isometric exercise, and not crazy huge muscle mass, just natural proportion and a boxers size.
Hannibal For King Workout! (Part 1)


Also boxers do natural body weight routines, using bars and push ups, so Hannibals workout would work just fine for MMA or boxing.

Don't do any different exercises until you contact your trainer and strength and conditioning coach, unless it's just your hobby and your passion, to Box or practice Martial Arts, street fighting techniques, some trainers just dont believe in change and just do the old school types of strength training for Boxing, unlike Holyfield and other champions, or fighters.

 

[Lots]

I don’t think anyone really knows what they’re doing. What’s that saying that 10% of what we do is actually responsible for our results?

I’ve talked to a lot of boxing coaches who are more open minded to the idea of weight training than they used to be.

Joshua’s training is very interesting to me. Lots of neo strength and conditioning methods. A lot of it looks stupid to me but interesting to see a boxer training like other high level athletes.

Floyd trains like an old school boxer and looks better at those training methods than almost any other boxer I’ve seen. Road work, skipping, bag work.

The comparison beteeen Floyd and Anthony perfectly illustrates the debate between GPP vs SSP

GPP (general physical preparedness) vs SSP (sport specific preparedness)

GPP is training to improve the overall attributes of athleticism like strength, power production, speed, flexibility.

SSP is more specific to the sport. Like training to improve the boxing skill set or progressing in exercises more similar to the sport. Like an arm wrestler training arm wrestling instead of bench pressing. ​

 

[Shoemaker]

If you are unable to go continuously for the three minute set (round) do you rest until you can perform adequate reps or do you push through as best you can until that set (round) is finished?

I'm taking to Firas Zahabi's philosophy on training, which is that you should never be sore afterward. If my max is 10 reps of something, I'll do 6 or 7 and call it done. And the next day, instead of being sore and training less, I can do it again. I think this makes sense when you're trying to develop a skill. The more time you can spend, total, in the gym developing your skill the better. If sparring 4 rounds 3 days a week is your "max", then the suggestion is to lower the amount of rounds you do per-day but do them more often throughout the week. So dropping to 3 rounds but doing it 5 days a week*. Over the course of the year, you'll end up sparring over 100 rounds more than if you trying to exhaust yourself every time you went to the gym. That's a lot of extra experience.

And because you're having fun more often, you'll be more motivated to do it everyday. I've been doing this lately and I find my time at the gym a lot more enjoyable. It had kind of become a chore for me but now I look forward to it.

*

Spoiler

Obviously you can't spar hard that often, nor would you want to. I used that as an example but the same principal would apply to partner drills, light sparring, touch-sparring etc. I'm assuming most people are only sparring hard rarely, except for when they're about to be in competition.

 

[mozfonky]

ya, good genetics, luck, politics all kinds of things have an effect. my old gym had several champions who either started there or trained there at some point but i could never figure out how, they were so fucking lazy. i could only think 'even a stopped clock is right twice a day'

I don’t think anyone really knows what they’re doing. What’s that saying that 10% of what we do is actually responsible for our results?

I’ve talked to a lot of boxing coaches who are more open minded to the idea of weight training than they used to be.

Joshua’s training is very interesting to me. Lots of neo strength and conditioning methods. A lot of it looks stupid to me but interesting to see a boxer training like other high level athletes.

Floyd trains like an old school boxer and looks better at those training methods than almost any other boxer I’ve seen. Road work, skipping, bag work.

The comparison beteeen Floyd and Anthony perfectly illustrates the debate between GPP vs SSP

GPP (general physical preparedness) vs SSP (sport specific preparedness)

GPP is training to improve the overall attributes of athleticism like strength, power production, speed, flexibility.

SSP is more specific to the sport. Like training to improve the boxing skill set or progressing in exercises more similar to the sport. Like an arm wrestler training arm wrestling instead of bench pressing. ​

 

[Lots]

ya, good genetics, luck, politics all kinds of things have an effect. my old gym had several champions who either started there or trained there at some point but i could never figure out how, they were so fucking lazy. i could only think 'even a stopped clock is right twice a day'

Talent is real. The spectrum of people’s starting point in anything is gigantic. In sports, science, chess, music. There’s a big difference in natural ability.

So big, most coaches don’t create great athletes, they find them.

So many athletes are involved in sports not because of their passion for it but their natural abilities for it.

Some people walk up to the bar the first time and deadlift 500 pounds. Others work their asses off to barley do it.

The first person will undeservingly get the credit for being a hard worker when that isn’t the case.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

What makes you say that swimming is awful for cardio? If I do a length or two of an Olympic pool I'm gasping for air, seems quite effective cardio for me.

Just one case scenario, but the fastest local guy I knew hardly ever ran. He swam laps everyday. He would run a few times to prepare for a race but his conditioning mainly consisted of pool work. When it was time to do a race he'd always finish in the top ranks. Just one example, but maybe there is something to it.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Running is the best, Bruce Lee called it the king of excercises and the reason boxers are known for their conditioning. I was always surpised/disgusted by how the martial artists/mma'rs didn't want to run. I always thought it was because, unlike boxers, they were scared to be alone. It seems they didn't know how to function without a bunch of guys around, laughing and giggling like a bunch of girls. Anyway, running in all it's varieties is the best for the whole body, you can think you are in the greatest condition in the world because you're doing weights or whatever but go through a real run and you'll see how easily you fatigue.

Can't neglect roadwork. lol. How many days a week would you run, or advise your guys to run?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

A lot of the old timey boxers like Dempsey said wrestling is great conditioning for boxing.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

A lot of the old timey boxers like Dempsey said wrestling is great conditioning for boxing.

Back in Dempsey's day I don't think the divide was as great between the two sports. Boxing actually had a fair share of stand up grappling back in the day prior to Queensberry Rules. I think they even allowed hip tosses, and throws of certain types.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Back in Dempsey's day I don't think the divide was as great between the two sports. Boxing actually had a fair share of stand up grappling back in the day prior to Queensberry Rules. I think they even allowed hip tosses, and throws of certain types.

bareknuckles allowed for grappling. You could headlock, and punch.

 

[tekkennlee]

Some real shitty advice in here.

I'm taking to Firas Zahabi's philosophy on training, which is that you should never be sore afterward. If my max is 10 reps of something, I'll do 6 or 7 and call it done. And the next day, instead of being sore and training less, I can do it again. I think this makes sense when you're trying to develop a skill. The more time you can spend, total, in the gym developing your skill the better. If sparring 4 rounds 3 days a week is your "max", then the suggestion is to lower the amount of rounds you do per-day but do them more often throughout the week. So dropping to 3 rounds but doing it 5 days a week*. Over the course of the year, you'll end up sparring over 100 rounds more than if you trying to exhaust yourself every time you went to the gym. That's a lot of extra experience.

And because you're having fun more often, you'll be more motivated to do it everyday. I've been doing this lately and I find my time at the gym a lot more enjoyable. It had kind of become a chore for me but now I look forward to it.

*

Spoiler

Obviously you can't spar hard that often, nor would you want to. I used that as an example but the same principal would apply to partner drills, light sparring, touch-sparring etc. I'm assuming most people are only sparring hard rarely, except for when they're about to be in competition.

I think Firas Zahabi's he's saying do 2 rounds every day for a week as hard as possible and after a years time your doing 12 rounds easily because your bodies conditioning is there, but this is a problem your not pushing yourself enough and you dont know your wall that you have to crash through, because everyone isn't built the same, some people can run 5 miles with no problem whatsoever and other people have to run 5 miles exhausted 5 times just to run 2 miles like it's nothing.


My philosophy is do 12 rounds once a week or 15 rounds with no rest and using weights and doing push ups trying to fight at the same speed and intensity as the first round in the last round and then when your doing it like it's nothing do this twice a week and after a years time your doing this every day 15 rounds 5 days a week and your past your walls and training camp is nothing.

Floyd"s secret he stays in the gym and goes 12 rounds strait with only a water break and spares with 3 different sparring partners, coming in fresh.

Floyd doesn't kill himself in training camp because he's already in fighting shape and he's working on timing and accuracy, that's why Floyd does two a days and can eat mCdonald's and is already at fight weight 3 months before his fight eating fast food.

Because Floyd can already do those 600 push ups and 2000 correct sit-ups and not your basic sit-ups but the correct abdominal strength training that makes you rock hard and not your Kovalev abdominal basic training he's doing and Floyd can already do 12 rounds of sparring going into training camp and that's the secret to not gassing and looking like you did in the first rounds, in the last rounds, fresh and having speed and strong legs.

Example the Contender and the Shane Mosley jr fight and both guys looking winded and sloppy after only 3 rounds in this last episode and this should never happen to a professional fighter ever especially the son of a world champion a legend.

Because they didn't put in the correct work before coming on the show and have no gas tank and they look sloppy and fatigue and can't put a decent combination together because they didn't prepare correctly.

Remember training camp is not for getting in shape, training camp is for staying in shape and improving to fight at that next level and improving timing and speed and reflexes and strategy, this is the secret to fighting at that next level and being a world champion.

 

[mozfonky]

Can't neglect roadwork. lol. How many days a week would you run, or advise your guys to run?

3-5 days, floyd patterson said he learned a lesson once when he did too much, he couldn't get out of bed the next day so 3 miles is fine. Dundee said the same thing and said he didn't care how fast or slow they did it as long as they did it. Joe Frazier said the same in his fine book on boxing, that the pace didn't matter. Not everyone agrees of course, one of my early trainers said 7 minute miles, that's not always easy for everyone and I doubt if that's a uniform number for boxers.

 

[mozfonky]

Back in Dempsey's day I don't think the divide was as great between the two sports. Boxing actually had a fair share of stand up grappling back in the day prior to Queensberry Rules. I think they even allowed hip tosses, and throws of certain types.

Frank Bruno's trainers had him wrestle for like a year before the first tyson fight, he was already huge and strong but he's a perfect example of a guy who had too many muscles, so much that he'd never have great stamina, a huge man. Sure enough, he tired by the fifth round and tyson did some nice work to get him outta there. Guys like him or lanky guys like Thomas hearns have stamina issues most of the time. Lanky guys can be great endurance fighters, I never understood quite why they usually had poor stamina, distance runners are usually thin. Guys like Arguello had fantastic stamina but usually, thin guys tired easily.

 

[Sir Punchalot]

swimming is awful for cardio, awful, the only thing that's really great about it is it's kind to the joints. Running is awful for the knees, guys like Roy Jones (it showed in the ring too) couldn't do roadwork in the later years of their careers because their knees were shot.

Yeah, thanks to running I have knee problems that will probably last me the rest of my life. I ran five-six days a week for years, and at age 43 I'm clearly paying for that. All the kicking I'm still doing isn't helping, but it was undoubtedly the decades of running that got me into trouble, not the kicking. Kicking is just making problems flare up sometimes. Every time I try to go for a run again I risk limping for a couple of days.

While I do think boxers as a general rule should run (because I don't know anything else that works better - as a foundation for everything else you do), please do with some caution, mix in other cardio work, start slowly and run more on soft surfaces - and of course don't run if you're overweight (and, um, don't be so fucking retarded that you're overweight anyway, sheesh).

 

[mozfonky]

Yeah, thanks to running I have knee problems that will probably last me the rest of my life. I ran five-six days a week for years, and at age 43 I'm clearly paying for that. All the kicking I'm still doing isn't helping, but it was undoubtedly the decades of running that got me into trouble, not the kicking. Kicking is just making problems flare up sometimes. Every time I try to go for a run again I risk limping for a couple of days.

While I do think boxers as a general rule should run (because I don't know anything else that works better - as a foundation for everything else you do), please do with some caution, mix in other cardio work, start slowly and run more on soft surfaces - and of course don't run if you're overweight (and, um, don't be so fucking retarded that you're overweight anyway, sheesh).

i'm retarded as fuck right now, i'm a good 50+ pounds over my optimal weight. I'm gonna do some running, only knee problems I ever had was from work injuries/falling, other than that, never any injuries from kicking, running, so I've been blessed. I also never ran as much as you did so I don't know how my body would have reacted to that but I will say this, anything you're going to do you will pay a price. You can't escape that, it's up to us to decide what price is worth paying. If you make deals with the devil make sure the price is right.