Supplemental Training for Boxing

[aries]

I'm taking to Firas Zahabi's philosophy on training, which is that you should never be sore afterward. If my max is 10 reps of something, I'll do 6 or 7 and call it done. And the next day, instead of being sore and training less, I can do it again. I think this makes sense when you're trying to develop a skill. The more time you can spend, total, in the gym developing your skill the better. If sparring 4 rounds 3 days a week is your "max", then the suggestion is to lower the amount of rounds you do per-day but do them more often throughout the week. So dropping to 3 rounds but doing it 5 days a week*. Over the course of the year, you'll end up sparring over 100 rounds more than if you trying to exhaust yourself every time you went to the gym. That's a lot of extra experience.

And because you're having fun more often, you'll be more motivated to do it everyday. I've been doing this lately and I find my time at the gym a lot more enjoyable. It had kind of become a chore for me but now I look forward to it.

*

Spoiler

Obviously you can't spar hard that often, nor would you want to. I used that as an example but the same principal would apply to partner drills, light sparring, touch-sparring etc. I'm assuming most people are only sparring hard rarely, except for when they're about to be in competition.

I like the sound of that approach. The regularity will really help, rather than going for stupidly high intensity which you need extra long to recover from.

 

[Old Cat]

Count me as one more vote for road work.

I’ve always run up until a few years ago. I would rarely do more than a 3 miles. I have to agree the benefit to my comfort and mobility in the ring was huge. Now at my age it’s a bit more difficult , plus I picked up a few pounds , I feel it the next day. I’ve been cycling this year and am kinda digging it. I can ride longer than I could ever comfortably run, good for my heart but I can tell it wouldn’t be a good replacement for the runs I used to do.

I think it’s a good idea to mix up your runs with sideways steps ( like you would in the ring , don’t cross your feet- do 10 to 15 on each side) , or running backwards for a short distance and then return to your typical cadence. You can also try running on your toes while turning in wide step circles, three or four step to make a full turn. That kinda stuff really made me feel like I could change angles quickly. I used to also get up one my toes up hills then when I reach the top return to a normal stride.

 

[aries]

I think it’s a good idea to mix up your runs with sideways steps ( like you would in the ring , don’t cross your feet- do 10 to 15 on each side) , or running backwards for a short distance and then return to your typical cadence. You can also try running on your toes while turning in wide step circles, three or four step to make a full turn. That kinda stuff really made me feel like I could change angles quickly. I used to also get up one my toes up hills then when I reach the top return to a normal stride.

Yeah I used to run like this, do side steps for a minute, then the other direction and then run backwards for a minute. It definitely helped in the ring.

On a side note I was out running with a training partner once who was fitter than me so he started showing off by sprinting ahead then running back. I left him to it. Then he starts running backwards really fast and he tripped over an iron bollard and went down head over heels really hard. I had to stifle the urge to laugh but it was funny as fuck. He started running normally after that.

 

[mozfonky]

Ali tells a story where he was running with Archie Moore who of course went slower but then passed up Ali and told him to pace himself. I had a cousin who beat me running about a mile, very competitive guy but he was boney as hell, a good forty pounds lighter. I always hated guys who pushed you to compete like that. I'm sure he'd remind me of that if I were to see him even though he's nothing but a lifelong prisoner. Some guys who have low self esteem just feed off that kind of shit. Ironically, last week, I wrote on a Hagler post about a guy from seattle who said he beat Marvin around green lake, the story I heard was that Marvin claimed to have eaten something bad. Well.., many years later, this same man, who had become a quadriplegic in an accident, met Marvin again, supposedly he said "what the fuck happened to you?" and later on in the convo he brought up the run "you know, I had a stomach ache that day" all those years later. On the post, Marvelous claimed "I do not know this person" maybe true or maybe he didn't want to remember losing a run, i don't know.

 

[mozfonky]

Stirling Silliphant told a story of how he'd run with Bruce Lee and how he got up to running several miles but bruce kicked it up a notch one day, stirling told him he'd have to quit or "i'll die" bruce tole him, "then die" they spoke about it later, because it pissed stirling off so much he went ahead and ran the rest of the way. Bruce told him it was better to be dead than to put limits on yourself. Stirling went on to say, that in is opinion, that philosophy was what killed the man.

 

[Shoemaker]

I like the sound of that approach. The regularity will really help, rather than going for stupidly high intensity which you need extra long to recover from.

One big benefit I've noticed so far as that it gets my metabolism going more often. I'm 32 now and it doesn't work as well as it did when I was 25. Spiking it regularly helps keep the fat on my ass in check.

 

[Old Cat]

I’ve never run with people other than my wife. Well maybe some with the young pups at a gym 10 yrs ago or so; I didn’t see a need for it. I could always self motivate.

As an aside the serious cyclist do that crap all the time. Don’t know if I’ll ever get into the whole group cycling thing. I might accidentally run one of them off the road.. plus I feel sissyfied enough wearing spandex drawers, the thought of looking at some dudes half clothed butt for 75 miles isn’t too appealing.

 

[Old Cat]

Yeah I used to run like this, do side steps for a minute, then the other direction and then run backwards for a minute. It definitely helped in the ring.

On a side note I was out running with a training partner once who was fitter than me so he started showing off by sprinting ahead then running back. I left him to it. Then he starts running backwards really fast and he tripped over an iron bollard and went down head over heels really hard. I had to stifle the urge to laugh but it was funny as fuck. He started running normally after that.

You’re a better man than me..

 

[mozfonky]

I’ve never run with people other than my wife. Well maybe some with the young pups at a gym 10 yrs ago or so; I didn’t see a need for it. I could always self motivate.

As an aside the serious cyclist do that crap all the time. Don’t know if I’ll ever get into the whole group cycling thing. I might accidentally run one of them off the road.. plus I feel sissyfied enough wearing spandex drawers, the thought of looking at some dudes half clothed butt for 75 miles isn’t too appealing.

I never did, that one time with my cousin, he was just super pushy, today i'd tell him to fuck off but back then? I was still too nice, i was always too nice. A few years ago I bragged that i had my mile time down to 6:49 at 38, the guy I told was a runner who of course was a lot smaller than me, he told me that wasn't shit, i had to tell the boy "i'm a fighter, not a runner". The good that comes out of running is not because you can match the best in the world, it's because of what it does to your stamina when you're in a fight. You can go on and on and on if you have to.

and generally, the sport is a sport where people do things either alone or as close to alone as a sport gets. in a fight, it ain't your trainer taking shots, it's you no one else.

 

[mozfonky]

I think ali came in last in a performance of the stars, marvin gaye came in first I think, i never could find that one on youtube, just read about it. Ali tells of how he had a crush on Wilma Rudolph who he admitted outran him when they raced. Ali was such a fucking goof though, you could never tell when he was trying or not. Not that a world class female shouldn't be able to outsprint him.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Frank Bruno's trainers had him wrestle for like a year before the first tyson fight, he was already huge and strong but he's a perfect example of a guy who had too many muscles, so much that he'd never have great stamina, a huge man. Sure enough, he tired by the fifth round and tyson did some nice work to get him outta there. Guys like him or lanky guys like Thomas hearns have stamina issues most of the time. Lanky guys can be great endurance fighters, I never understood quite why they usually had poor stamina, distance runners are usually thin. Guys like Arguello had fantastic stamina but usually, thin guys tired easily.

They are possibly lacking in the anaerobic department of the sport. Imagine trying to get a marathon runner to do the 400 for time. I would predict it would be painful. Muscles allow the skeleton to move forcefully. If the muscles are unconditioned for that type of intensity then it could be problematic. A lot involving conditioning is genetic as well: Type 1 v Type 2 muscles being dominant in your body, VO2max, etc.

There are a lot of tests that if boxers and their coaches would prescribe to it would help them in understanding their athlete that much better, why they respond as they do and what can be done to improve it (Wingate, Astrand, etc).

 

[tekkennlee]

One of the best things you can do for your legs is run and running up and down hills is the best, also remember this only works your lungs and legs and not your upper body and arms, so just because you have strong legs, doesn't mean your arms won't run out of gas and get heavy and hurt like hell, making you bend over, this means your arms are not conditioned yet, to fight at the high level and not give out, i have had many days of this, my arms hurt so bad, i have to stop recharge and start again.

 

[mozfonky]

One of the best things you can do for your legs is run and running up and down hills is the best, also remember this only works your lungs and legs and not your upper body and arms, so just because you have strong legs, doesn't mean your arms won't run out of gas and get heavy and hurt like hell, making you bend over, this means your arms are not conditioned yet, to fight at the high level and not give out, i have had many days of this, my arms hurt so bad, i have to stop recharge and start again.

that's right, that's what i learrned when i started running, it wasn't the just the legs that demanded oxygen, the whole body did pretty much.

 

[mozfonky]

the key word is "supplement" it's just like the excercises I do for my fingers for playing piano, i do stretchtes and I have contraptions that excercise the back of the fingers better than they'd ever get just playing piano and altough it's not directly related to music, it helps a part of the machine. Also, to reiterate what I was saying how swimming just seems like such a fixed resistance to work with and get benefit. I'll compare it to how I used to do squats with just bodyweight, I'd gotten up to about 80, all the way down and jumping up into the air, i'd be breathing heavy, when i even try to do that now, I am too fat and heavy to do anymore than 20 squats like that and I can't get far enough to get my heart going. Swimming kinda felt like that too me, just too much resistance to really get the heart going. Also, when I try to sprint, as I mentioned, I'm so heavy that the same problem happens, my legs and body lose strength before I get to the gasping point that I know I need. But.., if you're at the right weight, running can go all different dimensions for your wind, all of them. it's as Bruce called it "the king of excercises".

 

[mozfonky]

They are possibly lacking in the anaerobic department of the sport. Imagine trying to get a marathon runner to do the 400 for time. I would predict it would be painful. Muscles allow the skeleton to move forcefully. If the muscles are unconditioned for that type of intensity then it could be problematic. A lot involving conditioning is genetic as well: Type 1 v Type 2 muscles being dominant in your body, VO2max, etc.

There are a lot of tests that if boxers and their coaches would prescribe to it would help them in understanding their athlete that much better, why they respond as they do and what can be done to improve it (Wingate, Astrand, etc).

I don't have a clue, it could be because of the physical lack of strength and fighting someone who's muscles are going to be a lot more concentrated and stronger, and I know that the muscle walls in the stomach or thinned out just like the rest of the slender fighters muscles so they usually aren't as tough in the body. It's a curious fact of boxing, lanky guys usually have poor stamina.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I don't have a clue, it could be because of the physical lack of strength and fighting someone who's muscles are going to be a lot more concentrated and stronger, and I know that the muscle walls in the stomach or thinned out just like the rest of the slender fighters muscles so they usually aren't as tough in the body. It's a curious fact of boxing, lanky guys usually have poor stamina.

Fighters are made but truthfully they are also born. A lot that dictates what you'll be able to do is predetermined from birth --- thanks mom, and dad. In basketball you're expected to have certain dimensions at the pro level, same with football.

There are outliers but the general consensus is what it is. Boxing is a sport that accepts all body types, however, everyone's body may not be "made for fighting" I think. Take Deontay Wilder, he gets criticized for doing things technically wrong. However, he is clearly genetically gifted. He can get away with things others can't.

Not boxing, but take McGregor for instance. He has had gas tank issues. I seriously do not think it's a huge point to his training. If we put him in a lab to be studied on all of these different tests they give Olympic athletes, and football players, runners, etc. I would not be surprised if they discovered something that could be tied to his genetic makeup.

Sorry for the lengthy response on this topic, I just really find it interesting the stuff they can tell you about yourself in a lab. Technology is getting better and we can really figure out people's baseline potential.

 

[mozfonky]

macgregors issue is the same as anyone in mma, they don't condition themselves. work is unglamorous, i had been around mma'rs, they are lazy, they really are, they'll put out for the cameras but thats only a couple seconds of work. martial artists and mma'rs almost all have horrible stamina and you put them in a boxing ring you'll see how bad it really is. I still remember when one of my pals was talking about Bob Sapp fighting Tyson, I scoffed and said "he'd be done after one round" not only because he's a big freak but also because his whole approach was amateurish. He didn't work, I doubt if he ran and although he had some success early on in the sport, he fell apart because he wasn't really a fighter and he didn't want to work. It's work. Genetics have something to do with it sure, but as Robert Redfords dad told him in the natural "you rely on your gift you'll fail" you still have to work. Roy Jones trained his ass off most of his career, Ray Robinson only let down a couple times and was one of the great disciplinarians in the sport. Ali was an anomoly, duran was an anomaly, benitez, but they paid for fucking off too. The only difference was, they could accomplish more fucking off than lesser fighters could training their hearts out.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I’ve never run with people other than my wife. Well maybe some with the young pups at a gym 10 yrs ago or so; I didn’t see a need for it. I could always self motivate.

As an aside the serious cyclist do that crap all the time. Don’t know if I’ll ever get into the whole group cycling thing. I might accidentally run one of them off the road.. plus I feel sissyfied enough wearing spandex drawers, the thought of looking at some dudes half clothed butt for 75 miles isn’t too appealing.

Lol

 

[aries]

Right I just wanted to post this because I was bigging up Lomachenko as someone who has insane cardio but does no running. Well that's what I thought but then I find this picture of him and he's clearly running and it's backed up by the caption. I feel tricked. The caption reads: The best reception in a fight is running long distance

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

Right I just wanted to post this because I was bigging up Lomachenko as someone who has insane cardio but does no running. Well that's what I thought but then I find this picture of him and he's clearly running and it's backed up by the caption. I feel tricked. The caption reads: The best reception in a fight is running long distance

Boxers lie to the public about their training camps I feel. They say they don't do something but they know they do. What boxer does no running at all? None. I've heard Joshua criticize Fury for running, and then see him in his training vids doing roadwork like everyone else. Some form of running is just a staple in boxing.