Surprise, surprise: Zuffa Boxing is a failure. 11 months in and no fighters signed.

My issue ( and concern) with dana is that I am very skeptical as to how much of the UFC’s success was him and how much of it was Lorenzo

Dana is.....not really an asset to me tbh in the grand scheme of things. I don’t even really mind the brashness etc for the most part but I definitely think there are times to tone it down.

Lorenzo to me was always the brains. You ask anyone behind the scenes and they will tell you that when Lorenzo was there he was the guy setting up the tv deals, the marketing, the buisness structure etc.

dana was the promoter/figurehead. And hey thats totally cool, someone has to do it. But to me his value was never much. If they replaced him tommorow I am not sure anyone would care. He certainly is not some buisness genius.

So its no suprIse thatt this failed

Much like most commissioners in professional sport, it probably could be said that he does have value as a lightning rod for criticism/controversy.
 
Much like most commissioners in professional sport, it probably could be said that he does have value as a lightning rod for criticism/controversy.
they say he turned the company around and i've read some of my old friends' ufc comments about how the sport "exploded" around 2005 or so, he fought in the company so i guess he would know something but, seeing guys like that fight for a purse of 3 grand, suffer more than that in medical bills told me there was no real money there. It happens in boxing too, one of the local clubfighters told me he fought for a grand and ended up with more than that in medical bills, why people do that when it makes no sense I just don't really know. Both of the guys i'm speaking of are genuinely wonderful people too, which makes it sad.
 
they say he turned the company around and i've read some of my old friends' ufc comments about how the sport "exploded" around 2005 or so, he fought in the company so i guess he would know something but, seeing guys like that fight for a purse of 3 grand, suffer more than that in medical bills told me there was no real money there. It happens in boxing too, one of the local clubfighters told me he fought for a grand and ended up with more than that in medical bills, why people do that when it makes no sense I just don't really know. Both of the guys i'm speaking of are genuinely wonderful people too, which makes it sad.

As others have said, it has long been debated just how much White had to do with any of this. It seems to be generally accepted that the UFC, and MMA in North America in general, was saved by the TUF reality show. This was a reality show that White was vehemently against from day one and only went through when the Fertittas ignored White and pushed for it. The Fertittas are the ones who deserve credit for investing in the sport and, frankly, getting quite lucky. I guess one could argue that White was the one to convince them to invest (not sure how much stock I put in that), but it's tough to credit White with a lot more than that.
 
As others have said, it has long been debated just how much White had to do with any of this. It seems to be generally accepted that the UFC, and MMA in North America in general, was saved by the TUF reality show. This was a reality show that White was vehemently against from day one and only went through when the Fertittas ignored White and pushed for it. The Fertittas are the ones who deserve credit for investing in the sport and, frankly, getting quite lucky. I guess one could argue that White was the one to convince them to invest (not sure how much stock I put in that), but it's tough to credit White with a lot more than that.
probably, I never followed it that closely. In fact, i always thought it was strange how much the fighters i was around wanted to gossip about that kind of stuff, it's akin to musicians who want to talk about the latest new musical invention or technology rather than just practicing, always thought it strange but that's how they were.
 
Dana would never be good at negotiating with people. Any time a fighter has tried to stand up for themselves he loses hit shit. He's always had the attitude that the fighters need them more than they need the fighters. Even if this did get off the ground it wouldn't last long before it crashed back down again.
 
Dana White wasn't successful in the boxing game years ago. If I recall, and I may be missing some facts, he got a big break knowing the Fertittas who let him run a business that operated with virtually no competition (Pride was largely localized to Japan). He, in effect, had a monopoly. Now he is going from having a ton of influence and power to exert, to a market that has way too much in the way of competition. He can't control all the variables. Few promoters in history had that much influence. He also talked rather presumptuously about being successful before things even got underway.
 
oh jesus, sorry mate. i swear i read the damn thing like 5 times, lol. don't know how i managed to read it wrong every time. my bad.

still, as influential as WME is, they could kick the bald fuck out if they really wanted to. but i suspect they like the screaming, swearing, fat bastard, and the way he runs the show.

i'd imagine his main issues with boxing is that the ali act prevents him half the shenanigans he pulls with the UFC, so he can't bully anyone into anything, and no real star wants to sign with a guy who they know for a fact is going to fuck them over. thank the gods.
I agree, I think WME likes Dana. They make the calls while he's off acting like a jackass as a distraction. I hate comparisons to Trump, because they feel hackneyed at this point, but I think it fits him well: both act like jackasses, while the real work gets done by WME or congress/senate/CIA etc... right under everybodies nose.
 
It's interesting to speculate what the MMA landscape would look like today without TUF and the UFC's explosion that it helped fuel.

More of a niche sport, certainly. Pride would have already collapsed. Fedor' s reign would be remembered even more fondly than it is now. Lots of fighters probably stay around for longer, without the push of competition from below. And the UFC wouldn't have established a monopoly, so there wouldn't be any consensus on who the #1 guy is.
definitely a niche sport. Certainly in America.

Pride would have collapsed. Maybe Strikeforce and Dream would have become the UFC vs Pride of the day instead. Dream had quite a bit of momentum for a while to be sure, and Bellator hadn't really made a huge splash in America yet. Sengoku likely would have tried fighting with Dream but would have been absorbed or something. WEC and Shooto would be dealing with lower weight classes.
 
Dana would never be good at negotiating with people. Any time a fighter has tried to stand up for themselves he loses hit shit. He's always had the attitude that the fighters need them more than they need the fighters. Even if this did get off the ground it wouldn't last long before it crashed back down again.
exactly this. It's one thing to lowball a fighter, that's to be expected, that's negotiation. But to personally attack a fighter and his career as cowardly is beyond stupid. It's a risk honestly, I can't imagine being Fedor and saying "yeah, I'm definitely going to work for this cretin who called me a coward when I can fight good fighters for good money outside of the UFC and have more freedom." He was also shitting on Melendez when Melendez was in contract renegotiations too. Like, if you're going to talk shit, keep it private, don't go after a top talent with character assassinations and threats when you still need him.

Additionally, for the hardcores, it makes it clear he doesn't really know the sport or take it seriously. I mean, this was the guy that insisted that Aoki (whatever you may think of him) "wasn't top 10" when he was ranked top 5 by pretty much every major MMA ranking body and had like 7-8 top ten wins. You can't take a guy running the worlds biggest MMA promotion seriously when he's so delusional that nothing exists except his magical top ten list.
 
exactly this. It's one thing to lowball a fighter, that's to be expected, that's negotiation. But to personally attack a fighter and his career as cowardly is beyond stupid. It's a risk honestly, I can't imagine being Fedor and saying "yeah, I'm definitely going to work for this cretin who called me a coward when I can fight good fighters for good money outside of the UFC and have more freedom." He was also shitting on Melendez when Melendez was in contract renegotiations too. Like, if you're going to talk shit, keep it private, don't go after a top talent with character assassinations and threats when you still need him.

Additionally, for the hardcores, it makes it clear he doesn't really know the sport or take it seriously. I mean, this was the guy that insisted that Aoki (whatever you may think of him) "wasn't top 10" when he was ranked top 5 by pretty much every major MMA ranking body and had like 7-8 top ten wins. You can't take a guy running the worlds biggest MMA promotion seriously when he's so delusional that nothing exists except his magical top ten list.
Yeah he's always dumb enough to shit talk fighters in other organizations and then still expects them to happily sign with him later.

This would have been entertaining if it had started up. I can see Dana making Anthony Joshua a offer for like $250 000 a fight and then telling everyone that Joshua sucks when he turns it down.
 
exactly this. It's one thing to lowball a fighter, that's to be expected, that's negotiation. But to personally attack a fighter and his career as cowardly is beyond stupid. It's a risk honestly, I can't imagine being Fedor and saying "yeah, I'm definitely going to work for this cretin who called me a coward when I can fight good fighters for good money outside of the UFC and have more freedom." He was also shitting on Melendez when Melendez was in contract renegotiations too. Like, if you're going to talk shit, keep it private, don't go after a top talent with character assassinations and threats when you still need him.

Additionally, for the hardcores, it makes it clear he doesn't really know the sport or take it seriously. I mean, this was the guy that insisted that Aoki (whatever you may think of him) "wasn't top 10" when he was ranked top 5 by pretty much every major MMA ranking body and had like 7-8 top ten wins. You can't take a guy running the worlds biggest MMA promotion seriously when he's so delusional that nothing exists except his magical top ten list.

He has likely hurt the company a fair bit with his erratic personality over the years. If the UFC wasn't a money-printing machine (due to having a monopoly on elite level MMA and a very strong brand) which could afford to be very bloated (in every way aside from compensating the fighters prior to the WME buyout; the amount of money that WME saved just from cutting out useless personnel from the Zuffa era was pretty crazy, actually), he would have likely been gone years ago.
 
Can't seem to find this old article but it was really interesting. Was basically about % of PPV total revenue that go to fighters in boxing compared to a UFC PPV. I want to say it was circa 50% of total revenue to all the fighters on the card in boxing and 20% in UFC. Anyone confirm this? Either way premise was dana and Lorenzo and co were making off with the lions share. Hardly make you want to fight for him if you had a choice.
 
It's stuff like this which really makes me suggests that Dana has always been a charlatan who has lucked his way to the top. No one anywhere could have possibly thought that ZUFFA boxing, with the plan that Dana laid out, could work.

He befriended a rich kid from a family with real business acumen and is marginally good at running his mouth in a way that appeals to obnoxious people. That's the extent of his promotional skills.

I have a hard time believing that the guy whose refusal to make substantive updates to the UFC product (i.e. ending TUF or getting rid of "Face the Pain"), which has led to a rapidly contracting and aging fanbase, is some sort of genius.
 
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Can't seem to find this old article but it was really interesting. Was basically about % of PPV total revenue that go to fighters in boxing compared to a UFC PPV. I want to say it was circa 50% of total revenue to all the fighters on the card in boxing and 20% in UFC. Anyone confirm this? Either way premise was dana and Lorenzo and co were making off with the lions share. Hardly make you want to fight for him if you had a choice.
i think i remember that and someone on here had a thread with the title "don king is a saint" which compared how much his boxers made in comparison.

i remember when the ifl was starting up, i was considering giving fighting one last shot, anyway, dana threatened everyone in the ifl that they'd never fight for the ufc, later on guys who fought in the ifl fought in the ufc, he also said Josh Barnett would never fight in the octagon again, then josh is there sometime later. That makes him a scumbag and a liar, I thought the guy running my gym was sheisty and I didn't trust him, when I saw how dana was acting, i realized that it was actually the same shit no matter how high you were. I'm glad i never trusted anyone. how do you trust people like that? in fact, there was some thread here a year or so ago where someone was attacking ONE which is where the old gym owner of mine is a vp or something, i wrote in response that i was just tired of 35 year old men complaining that there isn't a santa claus,most of the mma'rs are way older than boxers by the time they make a name for themselves and i've often said "anyone past 30 that believes what anyone tells them deserves what they get". There are plenty of talented people out there who just won't deal with the bullshit.
 
Going to be hard to sniff around for talent with Eddie Hearn in the US now.

Most of the top boxers are under contract dont forget
 
alot of people make their fortunes off of nothing but luck. either luck with who your sperm donor was or luck with what opportunity landed in your lap. A lot of it is mindfucking people, or as I like to call it, the pimp/whore syndrome, the pimp cons the whore into thinking she's worthless, that she needs him, can't make it without him, is security when in reality, the pimp is the worst thing in the world. It happens everywhere, how many jobs do people show up to for a boss they don't even like? They used to say Elvis didn't need the colonel but he just thought he did and others took it a step further and said "the colonel won the lottery with Elvis" but for whatever reason, Elvis could never break away. Some people actually thought he was hypnotized by the colonel, others thought he was blackmailed by film of E screwing little girls. I don't believe any of that, i just think people are socialized to submit that way and other people exploit that.
 
Even the name blows. Makes me think of these.

Zubazbang2008.jpg
 
It doesn't necessarily mean he still wont peruse in the near future but his timing was bad after Hearns new announcement.
 
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