Taijutsu

[BJJ_Rage]

That's the thing I think. Obviously the king fu, karate etc guys in UFC 1 to 3 go demolished by bjj, wrestling, etc.

But like I think they showed some of them could at least win bar fights vs schlubs. Like I'm sure Scott jennum and keith hackney could handle themselves vs untrained idiots back then. A small moral victory by today's standards, no?

Both of those guys were good fighters, hackney looked like a tough ass mother fucker...

 

[Cross_Trainer]

Both of those guys were good fighters, hackney looked like a tough ass mother fucker...

You also have to admire Hackney's composure in going up against the 6'8", 700 pound human wall that was Emanuel Yarbrough. Before people realized that sumo didn't work that well on its own for MMA, that had to be a scary fight to be thrown into.

Heck, even Harold Howard and with his stereotypical 90s style of quasi-traditional jujitsu + tournament karate wasn't an easy victim by that era's standards. He pulverized Roland Payne, and probably would have gotten Jennum too if he'd been fresh. If Jennum had fought an alternate bout of his own that night, Howard's 80s/90s Canadian TMA mishmash would have won the second UFC, without as much controversy.

The Howard/Jennum fight has the weird consequence of damaging both fighters' reputations among fans. If Jennum had fought an alternate bout before Howard, fewer people would have had grounds to question TMAs based on UFC 2. And the ninjas / point karate and trad JJ guys could point to their man winning a UFC long before Machida grabbed a belt. Not against a hugely impressive lineup, admittedly, but it would be enough to hang one's hat on in the early internet arguments.

 

[CFGroup]

Both of those guys were good fighters, hackney looked like a tough ass mother fucker...

Hackney like so many others couldn't help himself from being tempted to go to the ground. He didn't know how really dangerous it was. It took Sakuraba to maintain the discipline to not get snared.

Spoiler on Hackney, he was a HS or college wrestler, I can't remember which...

 

[Hotora86]

Jack Black sounding sensei says:
"Modern day people aren't going to do this. *shows lunge punch* Why do we practice it then? (silence) TRADITION!"

That's the kind of attitude I absolutely *hate* in TMAs. To his credit he goes on address the "modern" (haha) jab-cross but still...

All these TMA teachers should have this famous Matsuo Basho quote written in huge red letters on the walls of their dojos:
"Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise but rather seek what they sought."

In the case of TMAs - the "old masters" all sought *practical* fighting methods applicable to their environment, with the best training methods available at the time. And that's exactly what we should all seek! Not "preserving tradition"!

 

[INTERL0PER]

Nope. I've trained it with some serious, hombu dojo connected guys while I was in college- its all BS. I could go into much greater detail- but the cliffnotes version are- it's all BS. Ninja larping.

Now, if somebody knows that- and still wants to train it anyway, as an "art"- I won't judge them. I study a stick fighting art that I mostly enjoy for the lock flows and combinations, which are not very practical to stick fighting but still highly enjoyable to me. It's cool as shit to see how everything comes together (Modern Arnis). However- I don't delude myself to believe I can take on 5 people wielding sticks and knives.

Yes, I also make no judgement to people doing certain TMA as long as they are doing it for personal development and know that for fighting useless.

I've started studying Iaido recently. I've heard even high ranking folks in it clearly state "this is for personal development". Wish more TMA would be more like that.

Although oddly I'd say sword fighting is better self defense than wing Chun (granted you have a sword on you) LOLOL

Agreed.

I once watched a cool video with an aikido guy sparring an mma fighter. The aikido guy was under no illusions. He was just intrigued to see if ANYTHING he knew would work. From memory basically nothing did. I think he might've hit some sort of "wrist lock throw" or something, but he was basically useless.

He fully admitted that he just like aikido because it was interesting and a way of staying moderately fit. He had a really good way of putting it. He said something like, "Not every person who rides a bike is trying to be Lance Armstrong, and the same is true of martial arts; not everyone is trying to become UFC champ."

It only gets bad when these bullshido masters manage to convince their students that they're actually training something practical. That shit is dangerous.

 

[mataleaos]

Agreed.

I once watched a cool video with an aikido guy sparring an mma fighter. The aikido guy was under no illusions. He was just intrigued to see if ANYTHING he knew would work. From memory basically nothing did. I think he might've hit some sort of "wrist lock throw" or something, but he was basically useless.

He fully admitted that he just like aikido because it was interesting and a way of staying moderately fit. He had a really good way of putting it. He said something like, "Not every person who rides a bike is trying to be Lance Armstrong, and the same is true of martial arts; not everyone is trying to become UFC champ."

It only gets bad when these bullshido masters manage to convince their students that they're actually training something practical. That shit is dangerous.

I believe this guy actually just closed his Aikido dojo last week. He's been chronicling his experiences with the combat sports community since making that video, and he's gone down the rabbit hole of BJJ/submission grappling/Muay Thai/etc. He made a video recently where he said he's definitely grateful for his Aikido training but that he's on a new path right now to try to spend more time doing combat sports. One interesting thing was he said the Aikido community led him to believe that most of us combat sports guys were assholes but he said once he posted that video most of the responses from our community were positive and encouraging while ironically most of the negative feedback he got was from the Aikido community.

Here's some of those videos

 

[babycart]

I believe this guy actually just closed his Aikido dojo last week. He's been chronicling his experiences with the combat sports community since making that video, and he's gone down the rabbit hole of BJJ/submission grappling/Muay Thai/etc. He made a video recently where he said he's definitely grateful for his Aikido training but that he's on a new path right now to try to spend more time doing combat sports. One interesting thing was he said the Aikido community led him to believe that most of us combat sports guys were assholes but he said once he posted that video most of the responses from our community were positive and encouraging while ironically most of the negative feedback he got was from the Aikido community.

Here's some of those videos

That's the problem with aikido (and many TMAs as well): the finer points of their technique gets lost with each generation because they don't have fighters who test their shit. When you got generations of teacher after teacher with no testing experience, your style basically becomes mandancing. When the more recent generation gets hit by reality, it slaps the faces of his teachers and their predecessors, thus large amounts of butthurt and sandy vagoo happens.

 

[DanaWhitesButler]

Sounds like a waste of time. If you really want to train for multiple attackers, get a concealed carry permit and go to the range as much as possible. Look for scenario based tactical training in your area, too. That's the ultimate self defense, really.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

That's the problem with aikido (and many TMAs as well): the finer points of their technique gets lost with each generation because they don't have fighters who test their shit. When you got generations of teacher after teacher with no testing experience, your style basically becomes mandancing. When the more recent generation gets hit by reality, it slaps the faces of his teachers and their predecessors, thus large amounts of butthurt and sandy vagoo happens.

Well if you watch any of o sensi vids on YouTube m, you will see that he was doing something even more unrealistic than current aikido... and those vids are pre wwII

 

[INTERL0PER]

I believe this guy actually just closed his Aikido dojo last week. He's been chronicling his experiences with the combat sports community since making that video, and he's gone down the rabbit hole of BJJ/submission grappling/Muay Thai/etc. He made a video recently where he said he's definitely grateful for his Aikido training but that he's on a new path right now to try to spend more time doing combat sports. One interesting thing was he said the Aikido community led him to believe that most of us combat sports guys were assholes but he said once he posted that video most of the responses from our community were positive and encouraging while ironically most of the negative feedback he got was from the Aikido community.

Here's some of those videos

That's really interesting. Thanks for sharing the updates.

The guy seemed so level headed and reasonable in that first video I saw (the sparring one) that I'm not surprised he ended up giving up on Aikido.

I'm also not surprised that he got more backlash from the TMA community instead of the MMA/BJJ community. There still seems to be a real misconception amongst TMA diehards that they are the ones who are "true martial artists", while anyone doing actual combat sports are just meatheads. I'd attribute this partly to just plain ignorance, but also because there's no real sparring in most TMA's, egos are allowed to run rampant.

 

[babycart]

Well if you watch any of o sensi vids on YouTube m, you will see that he was doing something even more unrealistic than current aikido... and those vids are pre wwII

Of course, he was then obsessed with the teacher role and his personal interpretation of a cult, no brainer it sucks.

 

[The Sole Survivor]

If your teacher looks like this, its fine anything else is an imitation.

 

[CFGroup]

I believe this guy actually just closed his Aikido dojo last week. He's been chronicling his experiences with the combat sports community since making that video, and he's gone down the rabbit hole of BJJ/submission grappling/Muay Thai/etc. He made a video recently where he said he's definitely grateful for his Aikido training but that he's on a new path right now to try to spend more time doing combat sports. One interesting thing was he said the Aikido community led him to believe that most of us combat sports guys were assholes but he said once he posted that video most of the responses from our community were positive and encouraging while ironically most of the negative feedback he got was from the Aikido community.

Here's some of those videos

That guy's going to be terrible at what ever he trains.

He doesn't have an athletic bone in his body.

Even the BJJ rolling with his own skill level he has no physical aptitude!

It's almost like he never had any big brothers that pounded on him or school yard scuffled....Something....Painful!

 

[babycart]

That guy's going to be terrible at what ever he trains.

He doesn't have an athletic bone in his body.

Even the BJJ rolling with his own skill level he has no physical aptitude!

It's almost like he never had any big brothers that pounded on him or school yard scuffled....Something....Painful!

Withhold your judgment for a year or so. He just saw the light recently (after a few decades of mandancing). If he's really astute, he'll train his physical athleticism (which a certain level is needed to be barely competent in frontal violence). If he doesn't show improvement after that, you can write him off.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Withhold your judgment for a year or so. He just saw the light recently (after a few decades of mandancing). If he's really astute, he'll train his physical athleticism (which a certain level is needed to be barely competent in frontal violence). If he doesn't show improvement after that, you can write him off.

I watched his "I closed my dojo" video. Not sure I followed his logic though. He could have just kept it open and told people openly "I'm not teaching you combative abilities, if that's you're interest please visit so-and-so's boxing/bjj/mt/etc school".

Theres still a market for aikido presented honestly. The same market as say Tai chi, yoga, etc.

 

[asian-glow]

Withhold your judgment for a year or so. He just saw the light recently (after a few decades of mandancing). If he's really astute, he'll train his physical athleticism (which a certain level is needed to be barely competent in frontal violence). If he doesn't show improvement after that, you can write him off.

I agree. I remember watching these videos a while back and I remember being dumbstruck by the openmindedness and balls on this guy. He's willing to test what he's learned over a lifetime (not sure) across multiple disciplines in a competitive environment. He's also willing to put it out on YT and have it be criticized by random people on both sides of the fence. This dude is a mental black belt even if his skills don't reflect that yet.

Say what you will about him but I think this guy has built up valuable character traits that will serve him well in not just the martial arts but all his future endeavors. If he learned them from his dedication to aikido then honestly, I think it was almost worth it.

 

[mataleaos]

I agree. I remember watching these videos a while back and I remember being dumbstruck by the openmindedness and balls on this guy. He's willing to test what he's learned over a lifetime (not sure) across multiple disciplines in a competitive environment. He's also willing to put it out on YT and have it be criticized by random people on both sides of the fence. This dude is a mental black belt even if his skills don't reflect that yet.

Say what you will about him but I think this guy has built up valuable character traits that will serve him well in not just the martial arts but all his future endeavors. If he learned them from his dedication to aikido then honestly, I think it was almost worth it.

Not only that but it takes a lot of character to take off a black belt in any art and start over. There's a degree of political weight and popularity in any martial arts community once you have a black belt. It takes a lot of humility to take it off and start over for an endeavor that you know will be more difficult.

 

[mataleaos]

That guy's going to be terrible at what ever he trains.

He doesn't have an athletic bone in his body.

Even the BJJ rolling with his own skill level he has no physical aptitude!

It's almost like he never had any big brothers that pounded on him or school yard scuffled....Something....Painful!

I mean he's still just a white belt though. I've known guys with zero athleticism or any natural physical movement abilities and seen them progress to surprising levels in BJJ. I'm not assuming he will develop a super scramble or transition based game but I think it's early to say he'll be terrible. I've seen men and women in their 50's and even 60's go from white belt to solid purple belts. Also does it really matter? I would say no.

 

[babycart]

I watched his "I closed my dojo" video. Not sure I followed his logic though. He could have just kept it open and told people openly "I'm not teaching you combative abilities, if that's you're interest please visit so-and-so's boxing/bjj/mt/etc school".

Theres still a market for aikido presented honestly. The same market as say Tai chi, yoga, etc.

Not sure. Disillusionment is a big detriment to teaching stuff, especially when aikido vehemently markets itself as still 'martial.' Studying under some someone requires the belief that the instructor teaches the proper things, being disillusioned about the art impacts and reduces the credibility of the instructor through his subconscious actions. Better back off than deliver a substandard product.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

- Back in the 90s being a Ninja was one of the coolest things. But theres a reason of why peole talked about us as GenerationTungsten (thatswas how tought you had to be, just to survive back in the days). Being a ninja was rare, the fruit of hard work and dedication, unlike today that any jerk can became a representant of the secret arts of assassination. You woundt go to a gym at the shooping and start training, you had to earn the right to call yourself a disciple of the shinobi arts.

I still remember the long alwaiting for my ninja certificate come from the mall, and i start teaching after the long two months of training at the sundays. I coundt gothe the ninja classes at the sartudays because i had ballroom dancing.

Today disrespect toward us Ninjas is so great, that even a nerd Star-Trek fan like BjjRage can poke fun at us.
Back into the days, the kid wontd even be allowed to look at the direction of our lunch table on the school!