The EU treats American companies like a personal piggybank

hitcher said:
Good, The U.S. fucks with European companies, why not give their companies the same treatment. Hopefully we will see more of this in the future, until the U.S. stop fucking over European companies.

To make it clear for the dum dums here, of course this is political and will continue on both sides.
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How do we "fuck" with your companies by inventing laws to steal $5bn from them?

Give me an example.
Sauron said:
The US has been shaking down European firms with huge fines with their bullshit extra-territorial sanctions.

This US was the first to weaponise its financial system, and now complains when the boot is on the other foot.
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Oh, we started this?

Show me.
 
Google has a ton of cash reserves.

They gonna pay this straight cash homie.
 
Madmick said:
How do we "fuck" with your companies by inventing laws to steal $5bn from them?

Give me an example.

Oh, we started this?

Show me.
Click to expand...

The only thing I can think of that might be close was the whole VW thing. Not sure if that means we started it first though because I believe MS was before that.
 
Oh boo hoo, multinationals like Google use all kinds of dirty tricks to cheat their way out of paying corporation tax both domestically and abroad, they're literally paying hundreds of thousands in tax on billions in profit.

Now we're supposed to go to bat for them when they get hoisted by their own petard? You want to play that dirty game, don't cry when you lose a round. At least the EU has the balls to fine these companies, our government is in thrall to these big corporations and multinationals, they let them do whatever they want.
 
Madmick said:
How do we "fuck" with your companies by inventing laws to steal $5bn from them?

Give me an example.

Oh, we started this?

Show me.
Click to expand...

How much have you fined Deutsche Bank by now for violating sanctions and other things?
That must be much higher than 5 Billion.
 
If a European company wanted to do business in the US, but was breaking US law in their practises, Americans would be the first to say something among the lines of "GTFO and comply with our rules if you want to exploit our lucrative market, eurofags." But suddenly when it's other countries making American companies follow the rules of their territory then it's not OK anymore because 'MURICA is entitled to everything.

Europeans are big on bureaucracy and regulation, that's how they are. It has advantages and disadvantages. They have a lot more services, worker protection laws, better quality of life, better life expectancy. But businesses are bogged down by a lot more red tape. Selling stuff in the EU means navigate a maze of annoying regulations, that's how it is, they do it to everyone and to each other within the EU.
 
snakedafunky said:
How much have you fined Deutsche Bank by now for violating sanctions and other things?
That must be much higher than 5 Billion.
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Maybe they should deleverage then. Here is a fact for you: American banks are more stable than European banks. European banks undercharge for their services and have to make up for those costs with leverage. They are much more leveraged than American banks. I was watching an interview with the guy who Steve Carrell played In the Big Short. A movie about bankers and the financial crisis of 2008. This was an interview from more than 2 years ago and he predicted Italy's crisis. Said what I am saying now. European banks are over leveraged. Deutsche Bank did not perform well on stress test. They failed.
 
JonesBones said:
Maybe they should deleverage then. Here is a fact for you: American banks are more stable than European banks. European banks undercharge for their services and have to make up for those costs with leverage. They are much more leveraged than American banks. I was watching an interview with the guy who Steve Carrell played In the Big Short. A movie about bankers and the financial crisis of 2008. This was an interview from more than 2 years ago and he predicted Italy's crisis. Said what I am saying now. European banks are over leveraged. Deutsche Bank did not perform well on stress test. They failed.
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Yes and that is why they were fined. But no one cries about it.
You operate in the US and you break US law or regulation you pay the fine.

Even if that are completely made up laws like sanctions.
 
Madmick said:
EU: Google illegally used Android to dominate search, must pay $5B fine

Google Search is the heart and soul of the company itself. In fact, this was its first product: a search engine. It's crazy for me to realize that some kids reading this probably don't know that Amazon started as an online bookseller, and Google started as a search engine. That was it.

So now integrating your flagship product into your most valuable product is...illegal? Negotiating contracts in favor of your product over a competitor is illegal? This is monopoly corruption?

Must be easy balancing checkbooks when you institutionalize theft.
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Nah, fuck google. They weasel out of paying company tax whenever they can and contribute nothing to the societies that provide the infrastructure they depend on.
 
American companies treat the entire Earth like a spreadsheet.
 
My new phone doesn't have it but ky last phone did. It was really fuck8ng annoying that you couldn't replace the google search bar with something better like duckduckgo. Can't see how it was illegal though.
 
Edgy Brah said:
Jury might be out on that one for a while.
http://fortune.com/2018/05/11/apple-netflix-microsoft-google-oracle-cash-held-overseas/
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Not really.

They had to report overseas cash on their 10Ks they either had accrued deferred taxes on it or they didn't and there was potential liability unaccrued for.

You have to let the shareholders know about that.

With tax reform they had to bring back all of their cash as part of the transition tax.

Going forward that cash won't be taxable in the US so there is no benefit from a US perspective in keeping it overseas.

They'll keep it overseas if they are using it overseas or if the country where it's earned has a withholding tax.

I'm a corporate tax accountant
 
PolishHeadlock said:
Not really.

They had to report overseas cash on their 10Ks they either had accrued deferred taxes on it or they didn't and there was potential liability unaccrued for.

You have to let the shareholders know about that.

With tax reform they had to bring back all of their cash as part of the transition tax.

Going forward that cash won't be taxable in the US so there is no benefit from a US perspective in keeping it overseas.

They'll keep it overseas if they are using it overseas or if the country where it's earned has a withholding tax.

I'm a corporate tax accountant
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I realise Trump offered the reduced tax rate to bring their cash back but now they aren't reporting anymore. Any idea why?
 
Edgy Brah said:
I realise Trump offered the reduced tax rate to bring their cash back but now they aren't reporting anymore. Any idea why?
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Because there is no liability associated with that cash anymore.

In the past they had to disclose it because it was taxable in the US and you have to report all of your liabilities and potential liabilities you have and haven't accounted for.

I'm not saying companies are bringing home more cash as a result.

What I'm saying is that there isn't really a US tax benefit from keeping the cash overseas (there might be a small benefit for state taxes).

If companies are keeping cash overseas it's for other business reasons or because the country where the money was earned has a withholding tax (they tax money when you take it out of the country).
 
PolishHeadlock said:
Because there is no liability associated with that cash anymore.

In the past they had to disclose it because it was taxable in the US and you have to report all of your liabilities and potential liabilities you have and haven't accounted for.

I'm not saying companies are bringing home more cash as a result.

What I'm saying is that there isn't really a US tax benefit from keeping the cash overseas (there might be a small benefit for state taxes).

If companies are keeping cash overseas it's for other business reasons or because the country where the money was earned has a withholding tax (they tax money when you take it out of the country).
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Ah.
Australia was making a song and dance about Google etc. Melbourne, where I live just got a Google office a few weeks ago.
 
Edgy Brah said:
Ah.
Australia was making a song and dance about Google etc. Melbourne, where I live just got a Google office a few weeks ago.
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Just for reference here is Apple's quarterly report.

http://investor.apple.com/sec.cfm?DocType=Quarterly&ndq_keyword=

hVoFKJn.jpg


You can see they are still reporting some financials by jurisdictions which would give you a rough estimate over US gs foreign earnings.

In the past they would have had a paragraph saying "we have $60B of offshore earnings where no US tax liability has been accrued. If Apple were to bring that cash back to the US we would be subject to a US tax liability of $12B."
 
The problem I think Australia had with multinationals like Google, Apple etc was that interest on loans was tax deductible so they just had their own subsidiaries loan money at ridiculous rates that lowered theitr tax to 0%.
 
Renard said:
If a European company wanted to do business in the US, but was breaking US law in their practises, Americans would be the first to say something among the lines of "GTFO and comply with our rules if you want to exploit our lucrative market, eurofags." But suddenly when it's other countries making American companies follow the rules of their territory then it's not OK anymore because 'MURICA is entitled to everything.

Europeans are big on bureaucracy and regulation, that's how they are. It has advantages and disadvantages. They have a lot more services, worker protection laws, better quality of life, better life expectancy. But businesses are bogged down by a lot more red tape. Selling stuff in the EU means navigate a maze of annoying regulations, that's how it is, they do it to everyone and to each other within the EU.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it makes zero sense for the EU to specifically target American companies to fine simply for them being American. The two regions are complete allies and partners.

If American companies are getting fined, it's probably because they keep breaking the law. And this isn't the first time, either:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/27/the...out-by-the-eu-commission-facebook-google.html

"Rational self-interest!" fetishists should love this. These anti-trust laws are there so that consumers can make their own choices about what products to use, rather than some outside force requiring them to use their product.
 
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