The Majority of Americans Have Very Reasonable Abortion Views

13 percent believe it should be ok in the 3rd trimester?

I guess there are a lot of college girls out there.
 
There's that word again - "reasonable" in "reasonable limit." I don't want to put words in your mouth, but when the OP opens up talking about "reasonable" views on this which just happen to fit within his (correct me if I am misgendering Lucky) views, there is a pretty strong implication that opposing views aren't reasonable. I don't know if you're playing into this rhetorical strategy or not, but I'll say where I stand here. First, I see your view as reasonable. Second, I see it as morally abhorrent. Third, I see it was wrong in virtue of the second. These things are not mutually exclusive, but I will not undermine the reason of your decision because your scales of value are different - that's the tool of the lazy rhetorician more interested in being told they're right than determining the truth of the matter.

To elaborate though, which I think you deserve, a personal value of mine which I think our culture reflects is that slavery is wrong in virtually every form. Stripping an individual of their free choice to deny risk or labour is a central tenet of the cultures of the West. You will rightly point out that there are exceptions - things like prisons, or the draft, and you might wrongly point out things like being searched at airport security. Each one of these things has a particular footnote attached to it. The draft is in the case of necessity, presumably for the preservation of the culture - so the culture's core values are undermined to preserve the culture. A troublesome paradox but, again, one of necessity. The airport security thing - and all similar cases - is falsely posed, since one has the choice to not subject oneself to that search. It may be a costly choice, but it still is a choice, so it does not undermine one's right to choose - it just adds a cost to it. And prison? The value of the culture is assumed to be attached to a series of duties in the form of a social contact. When one violates that contract one declares one’s opposition to the system that supports the culture, and by extension the culture itself. Thus when one is deprived of their bodily autonomy through violation of the social contract, it is a direct response to one’s displayed hostility towards the social contract. These are all debatable points, but one can see the reason behind them – reason which I believe is sound when exhaustively explored, given our current cultural climate. The end result? Bodily autonomy is only stripped away in a few very specific circumstances in our current cultural climate.

What you’re presenting is essentially the stance of “Yeah, the state violating bodily autonomy is wrong, but it’s OK because it avoids the greater evil of murder.” Feel free to correct me if I’m not presenting you fairly there. The problem with this arises in that our culture finds murder quite acceptable both on the personal level and a state sanctioned level, whether it’s justice (“the nasty criminal got shot – good!”) or necessity (“that drone strike killed some innocents, but it was to get the bad guy”) or… Well, think about it – our culture has proven to normalize murder for a wide variety of reasons. Our takeway from this? Our culture at large is OK with murder both at a personal and systemic level for a variety of justifications.

Returning to the notion of “We can’t do a late term abortion because murder is wrong” – well, the ship of supporting murder has already sailed. That includes the murder of innocents, if we actually scrutinize the workings of our culture and the state supporting it. We all do it either tacitly and overtly. So, murder is something our culture justifies in pursuit of cultural values, even when it is not necessary (see: any number of military conflicts). That being the case, our culture is more permissible of murder than it is of bodily slavery.

Unless we want to take the stance that a pregnant woman is in violation of the social contract and as such is an enemy of the state, or it is necessary for the state that she give birth to the baby, we are making her a bodily slave to our values through the mechanism of the state. I believe that the right to bodily autonomy is more important than murder is wrong, in the eyes of our culture, since our culture already normalizes murder in many, many ways. As such, I reject – and let’s not mince words – slavery of non-criminal persons to the state even at the cost of murder. This is all beside the point that I disagree that a fetus is a person, but that’s another debate.

Call the people who support late term abortion what you will, but don’t dub them unreasonable. This is more directed at the OP with his shameless, self-serving, and empty rhetorical tactic.


I can't adequately respond to you right now, but I don't want to be rude and leave you hanging. I'll try to get to this when I have some time, and I do enjoy your style.
 
I can't adequately respond to you right now, but I don't want to be rude and leave you hanging. I'll try to get to this when I have some time, and I do enjoy your style.

Why thank you. There is no expectation of immediate response, or response at all, though I would be interested to read one. I recognize that we are both avatars of a debate that is far larger than just the two of us and it would be the height of pretense to assume that there will be any sort of final victory arrived at here, so there will be no victory dance on my end. I find your posting quite cordial so, despite disagreement, I'm inclined to treat you as a friendly poster.

Have a good weekend.
 
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