The Muay Thai Clinch 101:

King Kabuki said:
One of my best things to do when fighting with no rules was mix in my Muay Thai clinching with my Wrestling Takedowns and Judo throws. Guys were dumbfounded by it. I had to start showing guys how to take being slammed or reverse throws mid-motion.
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Or in sanshou, thats why i like sanshou so much.
 
The best dvd I seen so far for the Muay Thai clinch is the 2 disc set by Greg Nelson .
 
King Kabuki said:
But for the most part the first thing I do is SLAM my forearms in a pinch around his neck and secure his head in my hands (or between my gloves). I press on his neck with my forearms, making it hurt, making it tough for him to breathe. This also gives you control over his neck, which if you pull and torque on it, he'll move with you wherever you pull him. Now, another key principal to a sound clinch is to MOVE YOUR FEET. You never just stand still and keep your feet in the same place. I don't even keep my feet square in the clinch, always one back one forward, almost like a lunge position unless I shoot in close to switch up positions (which I'll elaborate on in a minute). So one leg back, the other forward. Forearms on either side of the neck pinching tight. Now that rear-leg. From as far back as you can you send it into your opponent's body as hard as you can WHILE PULLING FORWARD on the head and neck. This will disrupt it if he tries to block your knee with his forearms. He'll be drawn forward and hopefully mis-calculate the position. You might also land a bit lower that you anticipate. Not so much chest and mid-stomach as waistline, which hurts a shitload more. So you give him a couple of these knees. Now here's where it gets really fun

Hand-grips:

In another thread we discussed wether your fingers should be interlaced or not. If you're 100% sure your opponent is finished if you lock in your clinch, or that he will at least have a nightmare of a time getting free of it, then interlock your fingers. Doing this makes your grip all but iron-clad and your pushing and pulling on his head and neck that much tighter. He'll feel like his head and neck are in a monkey-wrench. But if he figures out to fight out of it, you're going to have to let go immediately.

If you just use the clinch to lead to other things and not necessarily as a reliable finishing technique, then you'd be better-served just to cup your hands either just behind the ears on either side of his head (fingertips or glove-tips near the back of his neck) and hold TIGHT, or place your hands/gloves one-on-top-of-the-other at about the base of the skull.
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i got something to say about the first part. trying to clamp down a clinch on them if they still got two hands up can give them automatic inside position


and its better to always clinch with the fingers NOT interlocked. the clinch wont work if u r fighting in thai smoker fights and u have to wear thai gloves where there are no fingers when u only practiced a thai clinch where your fingers are interlaced
 
and its better to always clinch with the fingers NOT interlocked. the clinch wont work if u r fighting in thai smoker fights and u have to wear thai gloves where there are no fingers when u only practiced a thai clinch where your fingers are interlaced
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Not everyone fights in Thai smokers or with thai gloves.
 
ScottAM said:
Or in sanshou, thats why i like sanshou so much.
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san shou/da is some gnarly stuff.

i have to say one of my favorite escapes from the clinch is the pulling throw. most ppl aren't expecting it. block a knee or two and execute throw.
 
KK, please sticky this. I was seriously about to post an entire thread asking about the clinch and how to use it most effectively, so this answers most of my question.

The only question I have left: Is the clinch and knees effective tools in a street fight? I mean, in a MMA fight I completely understand using the clinch and knees more or less to wear your opponent down and hurt his body (making it hard for him to move), but can you actually KO someone with knees to the body, and if so, where do those shots need to go? I completely understand that knees to the head will put even the best fighter on the mat since it's the most powerful blow you could land, but curious about bodyshots.
 
It's in the "Instructional Threads" sticky.

Knees to the body should go right on the hip and along the beltline, where there's no protection from the pain. Ever been hit there? It HURTS.
 
King Kabuki said:
It's in the "Instructional Threads" sticky.

Knees to the body should go right on the hip and along the beltline, where there's no protection from the pain. Ever been hit there? It HURTS.
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So a couple of inches to the left or right of "the area" so to speak? What about shots to the mid chest/solar plexus? OK, let me explain my little situation before you start wondering about my questions. Here's the deal, got in a scuffle last week with my bro in law (I wrote an entire thread in the S&P forum), and landed some good shots (he landed none) and really stunned him, but decided not to KTFO him in front of his wife and kids...he started this whole thing by attacking me first (funny thing, he's 33 and I'm 17). Anyway, I know his ego, even though I owned him, he thinks he is king kong...so I gotta a feeling he'll come back for more. I could get him in the Thai clinch easily and start unloading knees and elbows and land a high percentage of my shots...I just don't know where to put them for max effectiveness...and I also don't know if the knees are even worth fooling with.

Side question to anyone else reading. Any instructionals on head butts?
 
Will say thanks also, found this whole thread very useful.

Any good tips for training clinchwork using the heavy bag?! Going to try tonight anyways but aside from squeezing with the forums around the top I'm not really sure what else I could drill that'd be useful..
 
Big up my spelling, I obv meant forearms (not forums lol)... Neways:

Did my 'last' round of the day as clinch work, so didn't investigate it for a long time by any means but...

if I stand straight, I reach the top of hte bag, so arms over it and forearms squeezin the top of the bag means hands go 'behind the head' which on the bag is into the chains.

Threw knees front on as I pulled the bag into me as if cranking the neck. Threw some side knees (and cut up my knee through grazing lol) which I found a little more difficult to get decent technique. Maybe have another quick practice now lol. My bag is canvas which i think caused the grazing.

Any useful pointers for training this with a heavy bag lol.

Maybe will try without gloves also...
 
Coming back to this thread a couple years later ...

Nowadays I defend the clinch, or any grip on the back of my head (one hand or two), the same way -- explosively take the opponent's arm with a hugging grip, twist my shoulders away with a cross face, and pull the arm into a Russian tie. Couture's book on wrestling for fighting shows how to do it. It works awesome for me -- either you get the Russian tie, in which case your opponent is hosed, or he will yank his arms back as he feels it coming on. This is an ace defense for can opener attempt, collar tie, etc.

Lots of finishes from the Russian.

http://www.wrestlingcoach.com/russian_tie.htm
 
Zankou said:
Coming back to this thread a couple years later ...

Nowadays I defend the clinch, or any grip on the back of my head (one hand or two), the same way -- explosively take the opponent's arm with a hugging grip, twist my shoulders away with a cross face, and pull the arm into a Russian tie. Couture's book on wrestling for fighting shows how to do it. It works awesome for me -- either you get the Russian tie, in which case your opponent is hosed, or he will yank his arms back as he feels it coming on. This is an ace defense for can opener attempt, collar tie, etc.

Lots of finishes from the Russian.

http://www.wrestlingcoach.com/russian_tie.htm
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Question: what stops them from hitting you with a short left hook or left elbow while your right arm reaches across you to his right arm?
 
indigoluxe said:
Question: what stops them from hitting you with a short left hook or left elbow while your right arm reaches across you to his right arm?
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They can. I've never done it while striking, tho my professor taught me it as a defense to the MT clinch. The thing is they are put so off balance that they aren't going to be able to generate much power, and their instinct is to fight to maintain the clinch. You can't see it that well in the photos, but the tie causes an intense whizzer-like effect twisting your opponent away from you and towards the ground -- if he tries to punch you, he's probably going to fall on his butt. That said, it does seem to me there's a risk there, and a short elbow can cut you good. I forget what Couture's books says about this issue, he mentions it and says he does something different in MMA as opposed to grappling. I don't fight MMA, so I've never gone on to the "fighting" portion of that book, past the "wrestling."

Still I'd rather take a risk and explode out of the clinch than sit there taking shots. And this simple tip has done wonders for my defense of head control ... now I look at it as a great opportunity, rather than a problem. I like to see my opponent try to control my head, it creates an opening to exploit.
 
Zankou said:
They can. I've never done it while striking, tho my professor taught me it as a defense to the MT clinch. The thing is they are put so off balance that they aren't going to be able to generate much power, and their instinct is to fight to maintain the clinch. That said, it seems to me there's a risk there, and a short elbow can cut you good. I forget what Couture's books says about this issue, he mentions it and says he does something different in MMA as opposed to grappling.

Still I'd rather take a risk and explode out of the clinch than sit there taking shots.
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Yeah it seems like a reasonably big risk. Less of a risk than trying to get out of the clinch downwards like some people not versed in the MT clinch seem to do naturally, putting themselves in line for a huge knee to the head.

In terms of them being off balance, they're only off balance once the arm gets pulled. If they've got one hand behind your neck, you know the other hand is coming right behind it. If your arm is reaching across as soon as their lead hand is behind your head, you'll have an elbow in your face the moment your hand leaves your face.

Personally trying to picture someone doing that to me, I think my instinct would be to slide my leading arm further round the head (moving the neck to the inside of my elbow) to avoid having the arm pulled across and down, closing distance to get hip to hip, left arm would try and secure the head from the other side, but would possibly result in an underhook, then work knees from right overhook left underhook, with a good lock from the back.

To be honest a lot of people seem to want to find creative ways to avoid the MT clinch. I say, don't try and beat it - join it. The best defence to the MT clinch is your own strong MT clinch. Too many people don't realise the depth of Thai clinch work, watch more Thai fights and note the use of underhooks, overhooks, and various mixed holds etc.
 
Zankou said:
How do you escape/defend the MT clinch? Any advice is appreciated. One thing that occurs to me is uppercuts straight up the middle, blocking knees with your knees. But I've never really heard how you're supposed to do it.
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I would like comments on this, but one of the simplest techniques, especially if it's obvious your opponent is a much better at the MT clinch than you is bear hug. If you do it right, it will render him weak and give you an easy takedown. You might even make them cry uncle standing. If you have ever had a proper bear hug applied to you by a wrestler, you know exactly what I am talking about.

If you don't time it right, however, expect a crushing knee to your solar plexus or chin.
 
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