The Official Dragon Ball (Z, GT, S, etc.) Franchise Discussion Thread v4

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TheRuthlessOne said:
Good episode

Everything looked great

The music that goes along with UI is great

I am excited for next week

Kefla is an awesome character I think. I prefer her compared to them seperated

She is not as strong as people were thinking either. I'd put her under Vegeta, Hit, Toppo, Jiren, Goku

If Goku had full stamina he would have taken her out with just blue imo
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her fuison is strong but it obviously wasn't strong enough to wake jiren or make him move his eyes like goku ul did. when she saw those silver eyes she was like fuck in her eyes
 
TheRuthlessOne said:
She is not as strong as people were thinking either. I'd put her under Vegeta, Hit, Toppo, Jiren, Goku

If Goku had full stamina he would have taken her out with just blue imo
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Exactly my thought.
Champa repeated this twice in the Epi, "Goku used alot of his stamina so far".
What went through my mind is that, does he mean that full stamina Goku would take Kefla?

Or is his indirectly hinting that fatigue might be the trigger for UI? The epi ended with UI, so I'm feeling the latter might be true. The first time we see UI from Goku is after he Blue + Kaio-Ken with Spirit Bomb. Many presume he "absorbed" the Spirit bomb, some presume it's his "resistance" and will to NOT lose that unlocked UI potential.

But what if fatigue is the trigger? It happened in both cases.

Hades86 said:
There is no doubt about it. Goku surpassed Beerus with Ultra Instinct. When he reaches it in this episode Beerus looked pissed grinding his teeth. Then he kind of accepts it and encourages everyone to have a look at "Ultra Instinct" like this is a rare opportunity
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I do not believe this is true. UI Goku still doesn't beat Beerus, imo, at least not the UI we are seeing now. Until the "heat" issue from UI is solved, UI Goku isn't beating many GoDs, maybe only 1 or 2.

He's reaction is the same when he first proclaim the term UI. He's just shocked Goku achieved this form faster than him and many other GoDs.
 
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Yeah good ep
For all the hate about power scaling my head cannon now is the u6 sayians were at a base level wayyyy beyond what goku and vegeta were when they achieved it due to them being an intergalatic policeforce
And the quiet female ones ' brolly form' seems like gohans mystic ie an alternative to superblue thats in the same ballpark
 
@5crew

When Whis explained what happened with the Spirit Bomb, it showed Goku's eyes turning silver right before the Spirit Bomb engulfed him

I believ it was his resistance and strong willpower to fight on that triggered UI. The Spirit Bomb gave him the energy/stamina to fight on.

I think it's similar to Gohan going SSJ2. Goku's training in the ROSAT gave Gohan all the requirements and all he needed was the trigger.

Well, in this case Whis was training him and Vegeta specifically for UI and for whatever reason, Goku strong resistance and willpower while already being fatigued triggered the state.
 
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D Train said:
Since Jiren is strong, why doesn’t he just eliminate everyone real quick and go on about his business?
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Probably because he wants Zeno and the alternate time Zeno to be satisfied with the tournament. Do you like it when the main event ends in less than 13 seconds? Probably you did, but deep down inside of you, you wished it lasted a little longer.
 
kuromusha said:
The original design for Cabba was pretty cool. Wish they would have kept it.

2s84gHL.jpg
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I wish they kept the original design for Caulifla.
























B0FA2D58-A376-4AD0-A468-E49F1599103E.png
 
I wouldnt take the movie (battle of gods) as some sort of scale for Beerus vs Goku.. The manga made it quite clear that ssb (vegeta) gets crushed by Beerus just prior to the tournament.. Beerus seemd to have UI or at least some part of it vs the other Gods.

I do think with UI Goku is at least level with Beerus but he doesnt have full control yet..

A lot of signs pointing that U6 is out next.. I guess that means U7 is winning right? no way they just get rid of Champa and co.. that dude is my favorite other then Vegeta..

I also wanna see Freeza fight to get a feel of how powerful he is.. Freeza vs toppo or bunny would be cool
 
I wouldn't mind seeing Frieza take out Dyspo in some underhanded way. Then maybe we'll see no fucks Toppo.
 
In restrospect, U6 is fucking stupid. Knowing the power Kefla has (Champa miscalculated but it was agreed that she'd be really powerful), why didn't they team up with Hit vs Jiren? Instead, Kale/Caulifla used the potara vs a depleted Goku which only served to make him tap into UI again. Horrible strategy all around. If they had taken out Jiren, they had a really huge chance at winning the tournament
 
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kuromusha said:
In restrospect, U6 is fucking stupid. Knowing the power Kefla has (Champa miscalculated but it was agreed that she'd be really powerful), why didn't they team up with Hit vs Jiren? Instead, Kale/Caulifla used the potara vs a depleted Goku which only served to make him tap into UI again. Horrible strategy all around. If they had taken out Jiren, they had a really huge chance at winning the tournament
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Their biggest mistake is not having Hit be one of the two people fusing

Can you imagine a massive power level combined with all that time hax shit?
 
Man when is Vegeta going to go off. He seems to be in total control of Toppo. I need to see his new level!!!
 
Not sure why people had such a problem with Kefla’s power. The math checks out.

If you think about Vegeto from Buu saga, this is all he is:

Vegeta SSJ2 + Goku SSJ 3

It would take a transformation like Super Saiyan God to contend with Vegeto from Buu saga.

Then you have Kefla who is:

Califla SSJ 2 + Kale beserker form(> Goku SSJ 3)

Makes sense why Goku would have to go SSJ Blue to contend especially since his stamina is drained. Potora fusion is just strong as fuck.
 
Big Brown Clown said:
Not sure why people had such a problem with Kefla’s power. The math checks out.

If you think about Vegeto from Buu saga, this is all he is:

Vegeta SSJ2 + Goku SSJ 3

It would take a transformation like Super Saiyan God to contend with Vegeto from Buu saga.

Then you have Kefla who is:

Califla SSJ 2 + Kale beserker form(> Goku SSJ 3)

Makes sense why Goku would have to go SSJ Blue to contend especially since his stamina is drained. Potora fusion is just strong as fuck.
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Buu saga Vegito isn't a good gauge because we don't know how strong he was. We just know he was much stronger than Buuhan.

When SSG was introduced, we didn't know how strong it was compared to Buuhan. We just know it was much stronger than SSJ3 because of how Beerus treated Goku in those two forms.

A better gauge would be Merged Zamasu. He appeared last arc and we saw how he fared against SS Blue. Merged Zamasu is made up of normal Zamasu and Goku Black.

Normal Zamasu is around SSJ2 level, probably a bit weaker.

SS Rose Goku Black = SS Blue Goku (maybe a bit stronger)

Caulifla is SSJ and as we saw a week ago, Kale is t as strong as SSG Goku since Goku was fighting both of them as SSG without a problem.

That means Merged Zamasu is much stronger than Kefla even if we factor out the immortality.

And remember, Goku actually did quite a bit of damage to Merged Zamasu with a fully powered Kamehameha as SS Blue.

If he can damage Merged Zamasu as SS Blue, he should be able to handle Kefla. Using Kaioken with SS Blue means he should be rag-rolling Kefla.
 
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Big Brown Clown said:
Not sure why people had such a problem with Kefla’s power. The math checks out.

If you think about Vegeto from Buu saga, this is all he is:

Vegeta SSJ2 + Goku SSJ 3

It would take a transformation like Super Saiyan God to contend with Vegeto from Buu saga.

Then you have Kefla who is:

Califla SSJ 2 + Kale beserker form(> Goku SSJ 3)

Makes sense why Goku would have to go SSJ Blue to contend especially since his stamina is drained. Potora fusion is just strong as fuck.
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Yeah I agree with you 100%

People are going off on tangents about this and they actually have no idea what they are mad about
 
This is how I rank the strongest as of Saturday

Jiren
Goku
Hit
Vegeta
Toppo
Kefla

Maybe switch Toppo and Kefla, Toppo has yet to really show much
 
I think Gotenks is the best for understanding how strong fusion really is

Lets break it down


Fat Buu tanked every attack from Majin Vegeta(As we know Majin Vegeta was peak SSJ2) with no issue

Fat Buu forced Goku to fight him in SSJ3

Goten and Trunks were only able to go SSJ at that point, they were not very strong whatsoever

They fuse into Gotenks and they unlock SSJ2 and SSJ3 pretty much right away.

They fight Fat Buu in baseform for a bit just messing around with him. The same Buu that forced Goku to go SSJ3 is being played with by a Base Gotenks



Insane right? Now Gotenks doesn't win the fight obviously, but its a good measuring stick to show how strong fusion can make you.

Gotenks Base > Majin Vegeta

Gotenks SSJ > SSJ3 Goku

And so on

Gotenks does spend some time in the ROSAT but I dont think it was that long. But it would have given him a power boost none the less so I have to bring that up
 
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Horse Style said:
Buu saga Vegito isn't a good gauge because we don't know how strong he was. We just know he was much stronger than Buuhan.

When SSG was introduced, we didn't know how strong it was compared to Buuhan. We just know it was much stronger than SSJ3 because of how Beerus treated Goku in those two forms.

A better gauge would be Merged Zamasu. He appeared last arc and we saw how he fared against SS Blue. Merged Zamasu is made up of normal Zamasu and Goku Black.

Normal Zamasu is around SSJ2 level, probably a bit weaker.

SS Rose Goku Black = SS Blue Goku (maybe a bit stronger)

Caulifla is SSJ and as we saw a week ago, Kale is t as strong as SSG Goku since Goku was fighting both of them as SSG without a problem.

That means Merged Zamasu is much stronger than Kefla even if we factor out the immortality.

And remember, Goku actually did quite a bit of damage to Merged Zamasu with a fully powered Kamehameha as SS Blue.

If he can damage Merged Zamasu as SS Blue, he should be able to handle Kefla. Using Kaioken with SS Blue means he should be rag-rolling Kefla.
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I think Black would be able to beat Kefla by himself

I think Goku is the one with the inconsistent power level and not so much anyone else( He fought 17 in blue form, He fought Gohan in blue form. Dude fights almost everyone in blue form)

Goku was the guy who was able to push back a Fused Zamasu energy blast by himself while not even using Kaioken

It took Vegeta ( who we knew was stronger than Goku at the time ) and Trunks combined efforts to do that
 
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