The Old US Marine LINE system vs UFC?

I trained in the LINE system when I was in the Corps. Back then I actually thought it would actually work against a resisting opponent. But now that I've been training BJJ for a few years I've come to realize that I probably would've gotten my ass kicked if I tried to use LINE in a real fight.
 
SummerStriker said:
I think the LINE training is realistic for it. During a charge, if you are standing long enough to do martial arts moves, you are probably dead by gun shot anyway. One of the main reasons numbers are so important in a battle is that you are more likely to kill someone at an angle to you than someone right in front, and so on, so the side with more guys has unengaged flankers automatically.

What you want is everyone to run up, with the lead guys having the duty to catch bullets for the men behind them, and the next guys to immediately go for the kill and then continue the fight beyond.

The basic logic of sparring is self preservation. It is hard to spar balls out, two men going for the kill right away. If people are too trained, you have fucking around, standing there parrying and shit, which just won't do.

Look at it like this: the charge is declared either when you are sure it will succeed because the enemy is breaking, or when you are about to die anyway. In either case, there is no value in the men doing anything other than immediately going for the kill. You have to cut the other side's numbers down right away and take advantage while you have advantage.

That's how I understand it.

What produces this ability is the courage and willingness to take action and then carry it through to the end, no matter what happens. Education isn't always the best for that. Powerful belief in your ability to kill is good though. Think about TMA guys who never spar but are sure they could fight. It is kind of laughable.

Now switch it, and put yourself against worse than 1:1 odds, your ears are ringing from a grenade, there are no friendlies on your left hand side, and all those TMA guys come running at you with spears. That's fucked. Especially if they are as strong and fast as you.

TMA guys always claim their methods come from the military - well that is why.
Click to expand...

That is a very interesting take on it. Lets go back even further then. How do you think the peasant infantry pre-musket era trained? All they did was melee combat. Apparently the Roman infantry was highly trained, and they pretty much only fought with their " "bayonets" " (swords), and had projectiles like arrows flying into them.

What about officers in the Napoleonic style fighting system? Would they get better Hand to hand training?
 
MadSquabbles500 said:
That is a very interesting take on it. Lets go back even further then. How do you think the peasant infantry pre-musket era trained? All they did was melee combat. Apparently the Roman infantry was highly trained, and they pretty much only fought with their " "bayonets" " (swords), and had projectiles like arrows flying into them.

What about officers in the Napoleonic style fighting system? Would they get better Hand to hand training?
Click to expand...

Well, I think in ancient times, there was a lot of knowledge and technique relating to fighting. They definitely sparred, and had combat sports relating to it that weren't necessarily lethal.

Most of history, arrows weren't that effective. Most projectiles weren't. You also had cavalry to bother archers and your own slingers which could throw a stone farther than an archer can shoot, harassing them that way. Even if arrows hit, take the Persians at Marathon - they had crumby plum wood bows that couldn't penetrate good Greek armor anyway, and they all showed up mostly in wicker.

From what I understand, units of infantry didn't fight to the bitter end. Pretty much as soon as the guys in front of one side started losing, they would break. If that happened, everyone broke. The only way they would stay is if they were good enough to outfight someone. Sense people haven't changed, I'm sure they had sparring equipment. It takes a lot of technique to lock shields with someone and fight while eyeing the opponents to the sides and behind of the person you are trying to stab.

For Napoleonic era, wasn't fencing the big thing?
 
Someone posted an old army combatives book a while back... I liked the ideas in it, but it did look a little tough to pull off without a huge speed/training advantage.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, just that its hard to practice and not a priority. SEALs fuck around and do MMA in their down time, but that's all it is... fuckin around and staying active.
 
jensen34 said:
In basic we probably spent 10-20 minutes beating each other up with giant q-tips. It was fun as shit, but I don't remember their being any rhyme or reason to it.

Think american gladiators where they stand on the pillars and fight, that's basically what we did... great now I have that stupid american gladiator song stuck in my head.
Click to expand...

carano_crush_004.jpg
 
Why do people assume that military unarmed training is effective? Most of the times military unarmed combat is just as aggression exercise and PE.
Modern soldiers who find themselves alone in the field without weapons (their own or something they can pick up along the way), have seriously failed somewhere, and need more training in keeping their guns with them at all times.
Two similarly failed soldiers meeting on the battlefield is not a common thing, and I think we can all agree on the odds of a unarmed soldier defeating an armed one.
Armies hardly even train bayonet fighting anymore. And that if anything is the form of combat outside of shooting they could possibly find useful.

You could use unarmed combat in taking out guards from behind and so on quietly, I guess (I mention this because Ive seen such scenarios in military hth demo
 
Last edited:
Somewhat related question... Is the neck breaking twist (seen in every action movie) a real thing? As in... Can it really be done?
 
vcmmafan said:
I would imagine that the military would have the resources and experience to develop an art that would make the others obsolete or redundant if they really wanted too...
Click to expand...

Isn't that the idea of most of the traditional martial arts? They have been tested by trials of actual combat (as opposed to sport combat).
 
Cyclone Mike said:
Somewhat related question... Is the neck breaking twist (seen in every action movie) a real thing? As in... Can it really be done?
Click to expand...

Yup, just not easy and it can only be done really to one side. I for get which it is off hand.
 
jensen34 said:
In basic we probably spent 10-20 minutes beating each other up with giant q-tips. It was fun as shit, but I don't remember their being any rhyme or reason to it.

Think american gladiators where they stand on the pillars and fight, that's basically what we did... great now I have that stupid american gladiator song stuck in my head.
Click to expand...
The pupil sticks in boot camp simulate hand to hand combat with a rifle & bayonette...
That's why the particular moves you execute are called things like buttstroke & such
 
vcmmafan said:


Would LINE work on a top tier UFC fighter outside the ring? Some people get the impression that Marines are always great in H2H. Maybe they aren't. But it does seem to be great for self defense... Why did the Marines abandon it? Just curious.

I would imagine that the military would have the resources and experience to develop an art that would make the others obsolete or redundant if they really wanted too...
Click to expand...

I was in from 90-94 while line was being taught. It was designed to be an efficient fighting style under the adverse conditions of combat and to be effective regardless of who is implementing it & what you may be wearing...
Examples would be low light, at night, smokey environment, exhaustion, wearing & carrying a rifle Alice pack & deuce gear, a 115 pound woman Marine or a 180 pound male Marine would be able to execute the same moves under the same conditions.
The drills in the basic LINE are of a repetitive nature & designed to be carried out after enough repetitions without thought.
Mostly designed as counter moves... If someone grabs you around the throat then this... If someone has you in a headlock then this....
With advanced Line then there are countermoves to the countermoves but it's all designed to be automatic , without any thought... Obviously many repetitions are necessary to achieve this , which I believe is part of the thought that lead to Line trainings demise in favor of MCMAP...
But the line if practiced we'll probably did fulfill the intentions of what it was designed for.
Keep in mind you will not see any flamboyant kicks or any act that requires great strength in LINE.... Remember you've been up for 30 hours after humping 24 miles to set up bivouac & now your being attacked.
Hip throws & moves of that nature were avoided to.... Don't want the enemy dangling from your war belt in the middle of a fight.
 
Devildog82794 said:
I was in from 90-94 while line was being taught. It was designed to be an efficient fighting style under the adverse conditions of combat and to be effective regardless of who is implementing it & what you may be wearing...
Examples would be low light, at night, smokey environment, exhaustion, wearing & carrying a rifle Alice pack & deuce gear, a 115 pound woman Marine or a 180 pound male Marine would be able to execute the same moves under the same conditions.
The drills in the basic LINE are of a repetitive nature & designed to be carried out after enough repetitions without thought.
Mostly designed as counter moves... If someone grabs you around the throat then this... If someone has you in a headlock then this....
With advanced Line then there are countermoves to the countermoves but it's all designed to be automatic , without any thought... Obviously many repetitions are necessary to achieve this , which I believe is part of the thought that lead to Line trainings demise in favor of MCMAP...
But the line if practiced we'll probably did fulfill the intentions of what it was designed for.
Keep in mind you will not see any flamboyant kicks or any act that requires great strength in LINE.... Remember you've been up for 30 hours after humping 24 miles to set up bivouac & now your being attacked.
Hip throws & moves of that nature were avoided to.... Don't want the enemy dangling from your war belt in the middle of a fight.
Click to expand...
*well
*too
 
Astal said:
The marines currently have their own MMA program called MCMAP (marine corps martial arts program). Was adopted around the same time I was in.

After looking over the document I noticed Most of the techniques are still used in MCMAP.
Click to expand...
YUT YUT
 
These threads most be made by native kids who have no idea what the military really is for the last time people in the military can't fight unless they trained or train a civilian gym. Most military personal would get there ass beat by any guy in a big 10 frat let alone a really fighter please stop with idolizing regular people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,685
Messages
55,434,568
Members
174,775
Latest member
kilgorevontrouty

Share this page

Back
Top