The Old US Marine LINE system vs UFC?

[lts5025]

Why do people assume that military unarmed training is effective? Most of the times military unarmed combat is just as aggression exercise and PE.
Modern soldiers who find themselves alone in the field without weapons (their own or something they can pick up along the way), have seriously failed somewhere, and need more training in keeping their guns with them at all times.
Two similarly failed soldiers meeting on the battlefield is not a common thing, and I think we can all agree on the odds of a unarmed soldier defeating an armed one.
Armies hardly even train bayonet fighting anymore. And that if anything is the form of combat outside of shooting they could possibly find useful.

You could use unarmed combat in taking out guards from behind and so on quietly, I guess (I mention this because Ive seen such scenarios in military hth demo

Exactly. The entire purpose of H2H, if your unit actually trains it, is to build aggression, toughness and esprit de corps, not build unarmed fighting skills.

As for SEALs and SF and such, since they have about 10x the amount of basic skills to practice as the average infantry soldier or Marine and the same amount of hours in a day, they are probably spending even less time on H2H.

 

[Robocok]

I worked security a few years ago with an ex military guy who was convinced he'd beat any modern mma guy. He claimed that mma wasn't effective and all of these modern fighters were soft because they had too many rules and they didn't fight to the death. He pointed out that on the street, there are no rules.

He asked me more than once if I thought I could beat him in a fight (I never mentioned my training, just that I was a fan of the sport). I told him that I liked him and wouldn't want to try to hurt him. I suspect he would have likely tried to go straight for the eyes or nuts in a real fight.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Haven't we all agreed that manuals are practically useless when compared to actually sparring with resisting opponents under the tutelage of a competent instructor?

Personally I've come to the conclusion that it is a psychological issue. 10 years to get a BJJ black belt? Years and competition of boxing/muay thai, needing to get up in the morning and put in miles of running and sparring and pad work.... ha.... No thank you. I know some "2deadly4you" martial knowledge from a sensei who has no actual proof of fights and a old booklet on Amazon.

 

[Universal Kombat]

I worked security a few years ago with an ex military guy who was convinced he'd beat any modern mma guy. He claimed that mma wasn't effective and all of these modern fighters were soft because they had too many rules and they didn't fight to the death. He pointed out that on the street, there are no rules.

He asked me more than once if I thought I could beat him in a fight (I never mentioned my training, just that I was a fan of the sport). I told him that I liked him and wouldn't want to try to hurt him. I suspect he would have likely tried to go straight for the eyes or nuts in a real fight.

In which case. Had I been you. I would have asked him to spar with me.

 

[vcmmafan]

I was in from 90-94 while line was being taught. It was designed to be an efficient fighting style under the adverse conditions of combat and to be effective regardless of who is implementing it & what you may be wearing...
Examples would be low light, at night, smokey environment, exhaustion, wearing & carrying a rifle Alice pack & deuce gear, a 115 pound woman Marine or a 180 pound male Marine would be able to execute the same moves under the same conditions.
The drills in the basic LINE are of a repetitive nature & designed to be carried out after enough repetitions without thought.
Mostly designed as counter moves... If someone grabs you around the throat then this... If someone has you in a headlock then this....
With advanced Line then there are countermoves to the countermoves but it's all designed to be automatic , without any thought... Obviously many repetitions are necessary to achieve this , which I believe is part of the thought that lead to Line trainings demise in favor of MCMAP...
But the line if practiced we'll probably did fulfill the intentions of what it was designed for.
Keep in mind you will not see any flamboyant kicks or any act that requires great strength in LINE.... Remember you've been up for 30 hours after humping 24 miles to set up bivouac & now your being attacked.
Hip throws & moves of that nature were avoided to.... Don't want the enemy dangling from your war belt in the middle of a fight.

Why did you revive this old ass thread that my dumb ass made before I was a Marine. Before I even started BJJ.

MCMAP is garbage

fucking posting in threads made in 2013

 

[Robocok]

In which case. Had I been you. I would have asked him to spar with me.

I was still really new to training then. I still consider myself a beginner now, but if the same situation were to arise again I would invite the person to spar.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Why did you revive this old ass thread that my dumb ass made before I was a Marine. Before I even started BJJ.

MCMAP is garbage

fucking posting in threads made in 2013

Hahaha. Same here. I was in the Marines and once I sparred with a few MCMAP blackbelts I saw my Muay Thai training and Judo was worth ten times what that was worth.

 

[ShinkanPo]

what I find funny is how every army guy (only about 3 so not representative) I have ever met here in Canada thinks they are a super dangerous h2h human weapon.
saying stuff like
"karate + bjj are nothing to a trained soldier like me I have learned to pull out your eyeballs in a blink"
"they taught us amazing moves to snap a mans spine in two"
so they actually seem to think they are unbeatable h2h

Double leg them and crossface them then ask him who is poking balls now?

 

[ShinkanPo]

Hahaha. Same here. I was in the Marines and once I sparred with a few MCMAP blackbelts I saw my Muay Thai training and Judo was worth ten times what that was worth.

Did you sweeped the leg?

 

[rmongler]

I think the real question is, how do you trane ufc?

 

[Devildog82794]

the technique of the Basic LINE was designed to be executed by anyone under any conditions or combat conditions. Figure wearing all your gear, possibly fatigued, low vision either Smokey or night . So there are no really exotic or flamboyant moves, nothing requiring excessive strength.
Other things like hip throws or anything where your enemy could become entangled in your gear were left out as well.
So the moves are very basic & tend to start off from a position of disadvantage & are designed to get you the upper hand from there. Examples would be starting out you are already in a headlock or a throat hold.

It also helps to keep in mind close combat is considered a defensive posture...

Mission of the Marine rifle squad is to locate close with & destroy the enemy by fire & manuver.
Or to repel the enemies attack by fire & close combat.

 

[Beer tastes awful]

The average BJJ purple belt vs the average Marine

I'm taking the purple belt every time, even if it's a life and death situation where the Marine can use whatever "real fighting" techniques he wants.

 

[ironkhan57]

The average BJJ purple belt vs the average Marine

I'm taking the purple belt every time, even if it's a life and death situation where the Marine can use whatever "real fighting" techniques he wants.

I was good friends with a marine veteran, in an mma gym that's closed down now. He was very good at bjj and had 2 mma fights, and is now a pro boxer, I bet you he could beat a bjj purple belt in a street fight.

He was more then just a striker he had good grappling too, he's probably a purple belt by now too.

 

[Beer tastes awful]

I was good friends with a marine veteran, in an mma gym that's closed down now. He was very good at bjj and had 2 mma fights, and is now a pro boxer, I bet you he could beat a bjj purple belt in a street fight.

He was more then just a striker he had good grappling too, he's probably a purple belt by now too.

Not counting guys that train MMA or BJJ obviously

I'm just talking straight Marine training only

Same goes for a lot of SF/SEAL guys in general

 

[ironkhan57]

Not counting guys that train MMA or BJJ obviously

I'm just talking straight Marine training only

Same goes for a lot of SF/SEAL guys in general

Yeah I guess but their are some people who enlist with a bjj background too so don't just generalize, plus depending where your stationed at you can train bjj, but your right, just straight up MCMAP is not enough to beat a bjj purple belt, but if the marine can keep it standing then he has a better chance.

 

[shincheckin]

Im not trying to bash marines as Im friends with a few, but generally speaking, they tend to be a bunch of meatheads that think the can fight because of whatever they learned in the marines, but in reality they cannot because the marines martial arts is a joke. Everything pretty much relies on the gun for them and after that they are SOL. 3 months of any kind of training isnt going to make you an expert. I doubt the military is overly concerned with marines learning unarmed as they are basically Pawns in a chest game, meaning the military views them as disposable.

Long story short, I think the average martial artist will make short work of a "marine"

 

[ironkhan57]

Im not trying to bash marines as Im friends with a few, but generally speaking, they tend to be a bunch of meatheads that think the can fight because of whatever they learned in the marines, but in reality they cannot because the marines martial arts is a joke. Everything pretty much relies on the gun for them and after that they are SOL. 3 months of any kind of training isnt going to make you an expert. I doubt the military is overly concerned with marines learning unarmed as they are basically Pawns in a chest game, meaning the military views them as disposable.

Long story short, I think the average martial artist will make short work of a "marine"

What about a marine vs a capoeira practitioner like lateef crowder? (Yes I know capoeira is basically useless on it's own)

 

[shincheckin]

What about a marine vs a capoeira practitioner like lateef crowder? (Yes I know capoeira is basically useless on it's own)

I dont know who that is

 

[ironkhan57]

I dont know who that is

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Im not trying to bash marines as Im friends with a few, but generally speaking, they tend to be a bunch of meatheads that think the can fight because of whatever they learned in the marines, but in reality they cannot because the marines martial arts is a joke. Everything pretty much relies on the gun for them and after that they are SOL. 3 months of any kind of training isnt going to make you an expert. I doubt the military is overly concerned with marines learning unarmed as they are basically Pawns in a chest game, meaning the military views them as disposable.

Long story short, I think the average martial artist will make short work of a "marine"

From the sparring I've done against Marines, this is pretty accurate. At least they're decent students because any potential whining or complaining has been trained out of them already and they're usually not weak or in bad shape.

The military has its priorities straight in this regard, imo. Most of a Marine's success will be from being physically and mentally fit + cardio so they can get things done and continue operating, not from specific hand-to-hand training which would be a waste to put their focus in that.