The S&C-related Studies Thread

Sano said:
Just about wrapping up my education as a physiotherapist, with most of my interest being in biomechanics, physiology and neurology. I'm writing my bachelors in brain trauma in a few month and then I think I'll get a masters in human physiology or neuroscience, and probably a PhD down the road too. I'll wait a few years because I want to work and get some experience first, but I'm really excited about learning more and growing!
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ok, you know your stuff. cool. the discussions of the physios who actually work out are always an insight. thanks and good luck!
 
corpse said:
ok, you know your stuff. cool. the discussions of the physios who actually work out are always an insight. thanks and good luck!
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Thanks man!

There's definitely bad physios out there, and working out/doing sports on a semi serious level matters a lot.

Also there are levels I'd say. Up here in Scandinavia the level is pretty high, and it keeps getting higher. Same with Canada. We're basicly a combination of physical trainers, mini-doctors and neurologists that specialise in rehabilation. Not to mention branches out into psychiatry, manual therapies and health management. Obviously a person can't know everything so we're not as knowledgable on something like pathologies as doctors, or the brain as neurologists and so on, but when it comes to rehab, kinematics and physiology you'd be hard pressed to find anyone else better.

Anyyyway lol, lots of stuff to learn still. I'm off to "work", I'm interning at a hospital right now. Have a nice day!
 
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Sano said:
So what you are asking is if nerve damage at a specific location can reduce your strength adaptions in other areas of the body? There's a bit to unpack there.

When it comes to localised nerve damage, it's related to individual nerves and would most likely only effect a specific area or muscle(s). I'm sure there would be some sort of interplay with other nerves that might impact strength adaptions in other areas negatively, but it's not completely understood. The majority of the symptoms would be localised. The relationship between nerve damage and strength loss is pretty clearly defined. This study is really interesting in that regard:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4375416/

Peripheral damage can be systemic as well though, like in diabetes with or without polyneuropathologies (basicly just means that many nerves are effected) as a result of something like arteroschlerosis (plaque in the arties resulting in less oxygenated nerve fibers and hence damage) throughout the body, or in various other conditions like Multiple Schlerosis.

Otherwise if the muscle weakness is systemic or distributed over different sections of the body it's usually a problem in the CNS, primarily the brain. Brain damage can impact many muscles in accordance to which part of the mortor cortex that's damaged. Also other neurological diseases in the brain can cause loss of strength more systematically.

So, to answer your question. There's no reason why the guy who had his leg amputated would experience any significant strength loss in other areas of his body if the reason was stricly something localised in that leg, which is now removed. Then again It might effect the interplay as a disruption in muscle co-ordination could decrease expression of strength. He probably has some imbalances and compensations, but he should be able to improve.

The guy who has basicly no calf muscles (I assume it's bilateral?), you'd want to know what his diagnosis is, but if it's an active nerve pathology that effects both his lower limbs then it'd make sense that he might not progress as fast in his lower body. Strength training can still be used to not regress though and as preventive measure. If he's also experiencing less muscle strength in the upper body and you are asking if that's related, then I'd say it might be to some degree, but that it could be other factors as well. It depends on what the actual cause is, ie his diagnosis, but it could just be something else geneticly which is limiting him.

That would be my take, did it make sense?
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Great stuff thanks. The calf thing is bilateral. Upper body strength/size gains are normal if not above average. Hes benching a bit over 2x BW and put on considerable size.
 
PUO3 said:
Great stuff thanks. The calf thing is bilateral. Upper body strength/size gains are normal if not above average. Hes benching a bit over 2x BW and put on considerable size.
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No problem!

Yeah okay, that makes total sense that his legs are affected. Would be interesting to know what his diagnosis is, if it happens to come up!
 
Sano said:
No problem!

Yeah okay, that makes total sense that his legs are affected. Would be interesting to know what his diagnosis is, if it happens to come up!
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Spinal lipoma removal caused scar tissue that lead to a tethered cord. The tethered cord operation lead to the nerve damage.
 
PUO3 said:
Spinal lipoma removal caused scar tissue that lead to a tethered cord. The tethered cord operation lead to the nerve damage.
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I see. Interesting. So I'm guessing the operation to un-teather the cord was near the low back/tailbone? Do you know if the damage occured near a spinal root segment, or further down the leg?

If the atrophy is clearly defined in his calf, I'd guess S1-S2 vertebra (if the damage isn't specificly in the sciatic or tibialis nerve), but it could be something in the plexus sacralis (a larger bundle of nerves) as well, which would make sense if various other parts of the lower body had reduced strength. Sorry about the mumbo jumbo lol. Anyway, sounds very interesting! Obviously it's unfortunate for him.

Hope he gets the most out of his training, pretty impressive on the bench! Thanks for sharing!
 
Here’s Jeremy Loenneke’s paper arguing strength exercises do not improve sports as there’s little evidence but may aid in injury prevention.

He did a lot of research on exercising with cutting off blood circulation as a novel way to increase hypertrophy. He doesn’t believe hypertrophy equates to increased strength. He argues for specificity which Brad Schoenfeld’s research shows both high load and low load can both increase hypertrophy but heavy weights increase strength while higher reps with low weights increases hypertrophy. At least that’s what I get out of it.

Jeremy seems to be a contrarian.

http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(17)31110-6/pdf


Resistance exercise is typically performed to increase both muscle size and strength and is regularly incorporated into training programs for sports performance. Presumably, the exercise would be expected to increase the force producing capabilities of skeletal muscle, which may have subsequent influence on various sports related abilities. Interestingly, few studies are designed to examine sports related benefits of resistance exercise while including a proper control group to account for adaptations to simply performing the sports related task. Much of our knowledge on resistance exercise for sport is based off cross-sectional work showing that stronger athletes tend to perform at the highest level, along with cross-sectional work demonstrating that higher levels of strength are associated with various performance related parameters. Although there is a large body of cross-sectional literature providing a rationale for resistance exercise for sport, its implementation is largely based on the following: 1) An increase in muscle size will produce an increase in strength and 2) a stronger muscle will increase sports performance. However, there is a lack of evidence to support these assumptions. The weight of evidence suggests that resistance exercise may indirectly impact sports performance through injury prevention, as opposed to directly improving sport related abilities.
 
spiderguarda said:
Here’s Jeremy Loenneke’s paper arguing strength exercises do not improve sports as there’s little evidence but may aid in injury prevention.

He did a lot of research on exercising with cutting off blood circulation as a novel way to increase hypertrophy. He doesn’t believe hypertrophy equates to increased strength. He argues for specificity which Brad Schoenfeld’s research shows both high load and low load can both increase hypertrophy but heavy weights increase strength while higher reps with low weights increases hypertrophy. At least that’s what I get out of it.

Jeremy seems to be a contrarian.

http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(17)31110-6/pdf


Resistance exercise is typically performed to increase both muscle size and strength and is regularly incorporated into training programs for sports performance. Presumably, the exercise would be expected to increase the force producing capabilities of skeletal muscle, which may have subsequent influence on various sports related abilities. Interestingly, few studies are designed to examine sports related benefits of resistance exercise while including a proper control group to account for adaptations to simply performing the sports related task. Much of our knowledge on resistance exercise for sport is based off cross-sectional work showing that stronger athletes tend to perform at the highest level, along with cross-sectional work demonstrating that higher levels of strength are associated with various performance related parameters. Although there is a large body of cross-sectional literature providing a rationale for resistance exercise for sport, its implementation is largely based on the following: 1) An increase in muscle size will produce an increase in strength and 2) a stronger muscle will increase sports performance. However, there is a lack of evidence to support these assumptions. The weight of evidence suggests that resistance exercise may indirectly impact sports performance through injury prevention, as opposed to directly improving sport related abilities.
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I believe he's also pretty strongly anti-periodization
 
It would be nice with more evidence directly linking resistance training to sports performance though. Not a lot of litterature on that.

It's obviously a very challenging ordeal with all the cofounders, but still.
 
I'm currently testing a foreign trained "physiotherapist" for a ramp attendant job at the airport. He's working until he gets certified in Canada. Dude had terrible mechanics. He knew the lingo, but when I asked him to lift 50Lb from floor to waist, it didn't look very good even after I showed him how its done.
 
selfcritical said:
I believe he's also pretty strongly anti-periodization
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Yes, he does not believe there’s any scientific evidence that proves periodization works. It’s odd because even Brad Schoenfeld who does research and other researchers do experiments on periodization but Jeremy’s attitude is that the studies or experiments are flawed. Jeremy doesn’t even believe partial or full squats improve jumping or sprinting which Chris Beardley who creates infographics which I think Sano actually questioned Chris on the veracity of the study’s results on Facebook. Chris at least will,answer your questions and he’s pretty humble but Jeremy is very contrarian and combative on social media if you question him.
 
spiderguarda said:
Interestingly, few studies are designed to examine sports related benefits of resistance exercise while including a proper control group to account for adaptations to simply performing the sports related task. Much of our knowledge on resistance exercise for sport is based off cross-sectional work showing that stronger athletes tend to perform at the highest level, along with cross-sectional work demonstrating that higher levels of strength are associated with various performance related parameters.
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That doesn't seem right. I'm pretty sure there is a bunch of studies showing team-sports athletes who supplement with resistance training increase their athletic abilities (e.g. their vertical jump or their linear acceleration) more compared to similar team-sports athletes who do not engage in resistance training.

Which sport(s) are you referring to?
 
spiderguarda said:
Yes, he does not believe there’s any scientific evidence that proves periodization works. It’s odd because even Brad Schoenfeld who does research and other researchers do experiments on periodization but Jeremy’s attitude is that the studies or experiments are flawed. Jeremy doesn’t even believe partial or full squats improve jumping or sprinting which Chris Beardley who creates infographics which I think Sano actually questioned Chris on the veracity of the study’s results on Facebook. Chris at least will,answer your questions and he’s pretty humble but Jeremy is very contrarian and combative on social media if you question him.
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I got into a small debate with Beardley in fb comments (I posted the link here a while back). He did reply to my comments, but his reply showed ignorance of basic scientific concepts (like the statistical power of a study, statistical vs clinical significance, and meaningful effect sizes). He is clearly a hard-working dude, but hardly a reliable source.
 
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miaou said:
That doesn't seem right. I'm pretty sure there is a bunch of studies showing team-sports athletes who supplement with resistance training increase their athletic abilities (e.g. their vertical jump or their linear acceleration) more compared to similar team-sports athletes who do not engage in resistance training.

Which sport(s) are you referring to?
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The study come from Jeremy Loenneke et al. Not my comments. He claims strength training has lacking scientific evidence in improving sports performance. He doesn’t believe in periodization either. He’s a contrarian though he made his name in blood restriction studies on increasing hypertrophy.
 
spiderguarda said:
The study come from Jeremy Loenneke et al. Not my comments. He claims strength training has lacking scientific evidence in improving sports performance. He doesn’t believe in periodization either. He’s a contrarian though he made his name in blood restriction studies on increasing hypertrophy.
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Link and/or study name?
 
miaou said:
I got into a small debate with Beardley in fb comments (I posted the link here a while back). He did reply to my comments, but his reply showed ignorance of basic scientific concepts (like the statistical power of a study, statistical vs clinical significance, and meaningful effect sizes). He is clearly a hard-working dude, but hardly a reliable source.
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Yeah, as much as I appreciate the work Beardsley is doing, he doesn't really delve into the validity of the studies he uses. I've talked to him about it as well and he admits as much. At the same time, with the sheer volume of litterature he goes through his overaching conclusions are, usually, quite reasonable. He's not afraid to find opposing viewpoints either and I commend him for that. It's a very important task which most researchers are too biased to do. His longer articles are also very good, and I like his work on contractile velocity and angle specific strength.

Most intervention studies are quite poor anyway, or at least oversimplified. There's almost always holes in the external validity. So many considerations that are not done, but that's the nature of it. That's why you shouldn't take it as gospel and use your clinical experience, and common sense.

In regards to traditional resistance training (in particular max strength) and sports performance I'm on the fence. Surely there are valuable attributes like strength that can have some carryover, but I still feel like it's overstated in some circles. It functioning as Injury prevention I'm totally on board with. I feel like benefits from stability/control, mechanics, mobility and the like may transfer better, but it is all dependent on the sport, and that can be done within some sort of resistance program anyway.

Speaking about the literature on resistance training and sports performance I kinda have to agree with the Jeremy dude. It's sparse.

I believe you've done a few mini case studies in regards to 1RM squat and vertical jump, right miaou? I know there's been other studies done on that, and it seems like the evidence is slightly contradictory. Obviously training status, proficiency, skill, genetics and more has an impact on who benefits and how much, but in many cases the purpose of wanting to test and improve vertical, in and off itself, can improve your ability to do it. Like the number of reps your practicing with the focus in mind outside the resistance sessions, the mental aspects and so forth. Point is there are cofounders which might be overlooked, but I'll be interested to hear your take on it.

If we state for a fact that improving your 1rm squat will improve your vertical, which is perhaps specific to a few sports, how well that transfers not only to the attribute of jumping, but to sports performance as a whole is not that well researched. It would be interesting having studies done where you use quantative, and even qualitative, measures in a broader sense as a way to define sports performance for a specific sport (like assists, goals, passes, mental drive, compliance, whichever criteria fits the sport) then have a control group, a resistance group and a group who does skill training, or the sport, or something else instead of resistance training. And doing this many times over in many different sports.

In my personal opinion and experience, straight up resistance training like a bilateral barbell exercise may have some performance benefits, especially if you are weak, but with diminishing returns pretty early. It is key in injury prevention and tissue strength I feel though. Introducing unilateral exercises with a stability focus has some performance and injury prevention benefits as well, including the ability to brace the "core" while doing open chain exercises with your extremties freed has shown some performance benefits in various litterature. Mobility can have a pretty big transfer to sports performance if it's a limiting factor, and that's pretty much across the board.

Now doing agility, stability, co-ordination and manipulating arousel for recovery I feel has a higher transfer on sports performance, especially if it's done in a sensible manner. It's all a little vague though.
 
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