The Sherdogger's Guide To Fish Oil Supplementation

True. I just thought it was interesting that his high fish oil recommendation was to balance out the 3:6 ratio of the body fat being burned by an overweight person losing body fat, and wanted to know if there was anything in your opinion backing that idea.

Because before I didn't see why a "sick" person on a paleo diet needed some much fish oil to balance their 3:6 ration when they are eating lean meats, potentially grassfed, and generally not taking in as high a level of omega 6 to start with. So it was interesting that his high level aren't necessarily diet related(or current diet I guess lol. Since your past diet would have to be why you have an excess of omega 6 stored right?).
 
The thing is that being obese often comes with a host of diseases and problems that can be helped with fish oil. So, to say that Wolf's recommendations are solely based on balancing O6 stores... I don't know. You'd have to ask Wolf.

If I had to 'guess' on why Wolf recommends what he does, I
 
Take your fish oil.

Couple of weeks ago I ran out of fish oil and my roommate had our Costco card and was out of town so I couldn't get any for about a week and a half.

Well, last weekend, I was moody and emo and maybe the lack of fish oil had something to do with it. I rarely get angry but I almost got into real fight with my friend, and also I got pissed at a chick I was talking to and basically told her off for no reason, and ruining what was looking like a pretty good thing.

Take your fish oil. It makes you less of an asshole if you already are one, like me.
 
ooitzoo said:
There really is no need for name calling. I put in a .75 factor because I do eat some grains and don't train as much as I'd like.

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I'm sorry but that fucking thing has Poliquin written all over it. Nobody needs to take 46 fucking fish oil capsules per day. I mean christ, they might as well gone ahead and included a link to Biotest on that 'calculator' so that we can all take 23 flameout capsules each day instead of 46 fish oil caps.
 
SherTiger1 said:
Anyone tried these?

NOW Foods Molecular Distilled Omega 3 - 90 Softgels - Free UK Delivery - SuperFit.co.uk

Seems like a good cheap deal on sale and they are the lowest price I've seen for molecularly distilled fish oil in the UK, and without having to buy like 5000 caps or something.
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Yes. I've used a few of NOW's fish oil products and they were all good. Just make sure you check if they've gone bad as I did encounter a couple of bottles that seemed to go nasty quite early.
 
Sonny said:
Yes. I've used a few of NOW's fish oil products and they were all good. Just make sure you check if they've gone bad as I did encounter a couple of bottles that seemed to go nasty quite early.
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Cool, just ordered them. How often to you test? I only tested mine the first time I started keeping them in the fridge and on each new container, as figured they won't go rancid once refridgerated.

I still don't know what rancid fish oil tastes like but presumed they were ok as fishy enough to be unpleasant but not too much. Wonder if you can get a replacement if they were rancid straight after opening?
 
SherTiger1 said:
Cool, just ordered them. How often to you test? I only tested mine the first time I started keeping them in the fridge and on each new container, as figured they won't go rancid once refridgerated.

I still don't know what rancid fish oil tastes like but presumed they were ok as fishy enough to be unpleasant but not too much. Wonder if you can get a replacement if they were rancid straight after opening?
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I usually check once every two weeks. You'll know if they're bad, you'll just know.

I rarely bite into one that's bad from reputable brands though. You should be good with that stuff. NOW is a good brand.
 
Ok it's lousy, why? That's the part I'm trying to get my head around lol.

because I already know its in a different form But I don't have a clear cut answer on what kind of difference that makes, if at all. Just a resounding maybe/ fish oil is better! But why? or where is it backed up? Every direct comparison in pubmed seems to sound like krill oil marketing.

the marketing from Krill oil claims this
"
The phospholipid binding increases the bioavailability of the omega-3s*
"
and that the ratio of phospholipid EPA/DHA (Krill oil form) to triglycerides EPA/DHA (fish oil form) is 1:5.

But not sure where they derive this. Also the direct studies between krill oil and fish oil seem to have the exact same amounts of krill oil and fish oil (2g-3g total krill/fish oil a day). And the places Krill oil out performed fish oil seem to be all over (more EPA/DHA to the brain, higher serum levels, slightly higher uptake in liver etc... as well as the other stuff in it, choline, Astaxanthin)

but I can only find this review of all the studies to back it up and not much else (granted its like 20 pages of studies some of which are in Pubmed)
Omega-3 DHA and EPA for cognition, behavior, and m... [Altern Med Rev. 2007] - PubMed result second link is to full Review in PDF form http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/12/3/207.pdf

so far what I've got out of everything is

1:1 dosing krill oil vs fish oil (1g of krill oil vs 1g of fish oil) Krill oil outperforms
Krill oil can still have the same contamination issues as fish oil (lesser concentration though)
Krill oil contains antioxidants that stop it form going rancid (the bite your fish oil capsules test)
Krill oil doesn't contain the trans fatty acids that some low quality fish oils can have
all the Krill oil comes form one company, NKO.

at about 1.5g-2g Krill oil (300 combined EPA/DHA per gram) or 2 krill oil pills = max benefit from reviews and studies. Fish oil max benefit from reviews and studies =? 3-4g EPA/DHA per day or 6-7 400/200 fish oil capsules a day.

However at cost effectiveness, Krill oil is 20$-40$ ish ~= a 30-45 day supply (3-4 500mg pills a day or 2 1000mg pills a day).

Fish oil, at a 750mg EPA/DHA pill with added antioxidant (E) a 33ish day supply (180 pills) =~ 20$ (goes as low as 8$ and as high as 40$ depending on brand and what else they claim to have in it)

additional junk per krill vs. fish oil pill (serving size = 2 pills for the following, used NOW products to compare)
Neptune Krill Oil (NKO) 1.0 (1000mg)g
 
I thought the major knock against Krill oil is that you're paying an arm and a leg for a supplement that doesn't have as much EPA/DHA as just plain old fish oil.
 
I think XTrainer (not sure) posted a thread calling out Krill oil as a big scam. Do a search and read that thread. Some of your questions might be answered there.
 
Sonny said:
I thought the major knock against Krill oil is that you're paying an arm and a leg for a supplement that doesn't have as much EPA/DHA as just plain old fish oil.
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As far as I know, the cost of it is the main drawback. There
 
yeah like that's the rub, the cost/quality/effectiveness/dosage

Krill oil only comes from one place (NKO) and generally is at the same price point.

Fish oil comes form all over the damn place and quality/ingredients/ amounts vary, as does the price.

And bare minimum the only things I can find on effective does/equal does are what I posted above.

I can't find any clear cut head to head reasoning on why the phospholipid form in krill oil is more effective at smaller doses than the triglyceride form in fish oil. An what the actual equivalent is. Again marketing speak has this at 1:5 ratio. I've also seen 48x more effective for heart health and 3x more effective for uptake.

to compare to something else we talk about around here its like comparing Magnesium oxide to magnesium citrate, glycinate or malate as far as absorptivity and uptake. Where the fish oil is ~= MG oxide, and the Krill oil is the MG citrate form.

as far as straight comparisons of Krill to fish oil, Krill always has the choline and the Astaxanthin. Trying to find a Fish oil product that has this stuff is hard I've only found some with Astaxanthin and again it bumps the price point above that of krill.

I did see Xtrainer's thread, but again more questions than answers because again different forms of EPA/DHA (which is the part I really want to address), and no answers on equivalents/potency.

IF fish oil and krill oil had the exact same form, fish would be clear winner. But because its different I want to know how much it does. especially when I'm trying to get my significant other to take at least some form of EPA/DHA and fish oil is way too many horse pills for her.

Guess I'll dig back into the studies for the effectiveness / dose info a little harder.
 
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Good info and nice breakdown. I agree, if smaller amounts of Krill prove to be somehow MORE effective than the equivalent dosage of fish oil then the cost effctiveness will be even'd out more.

What about PCB levels in Krill as well? That could be a selling point for some people.
 
Good lord quik, those are some LONG posts! Instead of trying to respond to all that, I'll just clarify what I mean, see if you agree.

All I'm saying is, for Omega-3 supplementation specifically, you're paying a lot more per unit EPA/DHA with krill oil than fish oil.

I believe there is some research showing that krill oil has heart health benefits through mechanisms separate from EPA/DHA. Krill oil is much more powerful as an antioxidant. The reason why I called krill oil a "scam" in that one thread is because the slimier krill oil advertisers were comparing apples to oranges by saying 1 krill oil capsule="X" number of fish oil capsules. They function through different mechanisms, so it is ridiculous to make the comparison.

Now, I understand there is also some research saying the Omega-3 for krill oil can be utilized better than fish oil. This is a little more controversial, but even if this claim holds up to further investigation (I've only seen a little research saying so), the much larger body of research, and much lower price of fish oil should encourage one to continue buying fish oil rather than krill oil, in my opinion.
 
Yup they are long post sorry I get stuck in to 'but why?' mode a lot, lol but I think I've finally answered several of my own questions.

1. I found Entric coated concentrated EPA/DHA fish oil pills in a smaller size to trick my fiancee in to taking. (Fisol Super 70% Epa/Dha by Nature's Way - NW-1454 - at The Vitamin Shoppe they are just a tiny bit bigger than 500mg krill oil pills)

2. I found the full text of the Krill oil vs Fish oil Vs. statins for lipid profiles here and here (PDF) with handy chart here (short version Krill oil at 1.5-3g per day by body weight kicks both statin's and fish oil's butts (compared to 3g of 180/120 pills a day), so I need to give it to my Mom more than anyone to get her off the statin bullshit)

3. the full text of the above lists the rate of absorbency to the between the krill oil omega 3 form and the fish oil omega 3 form as 91% and 61% respectively.

4. both uptakes are improved by entric coated (direct to the intestines), but its really hard to fins enteric coated krill oil (looks like NOW has some at DPS)

5. as always quality, type, and delivery system matter (you get what you pay for)

6. the only fish oil that comes close to the same nutrient profile is this stuff New Chapter Wholemega - Plus Vitamin D And Astaxanthin
 
There were a couple of studies done comparing gram per gram of krill to fish oil.

Krill was shown to have beneficial effect on PMS and I think cholesterol levels (I'd have to look it up again as I might be misremembering this one) than fish oil. But that's about all the available research there is comparing the two that I'm aware of. And in the studies they didn't use typical dosages of 1-3g of EPA/DHA from fish oil that a lot of us use so who knows if those benefits even remain while comparing higher dosages.

So, in my opinion, since krill cost so much more... I'll gladly stick to fish oil unless further research is provided to prove krill is worth it.

EDIT: The study quick77 posted above was one of the studies I was referring to.
 
Anyone catch those Lovaza commercials on TV yet? Its completely commercialized now... dont like how they changed my packaging from a tall square-ish bottle to a shorter round bottle, but ill deal
 
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