Law Affirmative Action Abolished: U.S Supreme Court Outlaws Racial Discrimination In College Admissions.

Well those statements are a matter if subjective interpretation aren't they?

You still didn't answer my question.

Are extracurriculars and some vague "intangibles" worth a 450 difference for black students, 270 for Hispanics and 140 for white students?

Secondly, why are you lying and saying the US Asian population plateaued in year 2000, when the complete opposite happened and it rose exponentially (and continue to rise?)

It seems like you are looking for any or all evidence to downplay the race factor in these school admissions - instead of looking at the data objectively. I think you are biased.


It's really really simple when it comes to colleges particularly Ivy league schools.

I'm not defending these policies so don't freak out at me personally but it's very easily explained.

1) Affirmative Action.

2) Supply and demand.

Many top schools have had disproportionately large Asian student populations compared to population demographics in their state for a few decades now.

For example a school like John's Hopkins that brags about its diversity is ~20% Asian in student body and ~ 42% white. Black students are ~ 7.2% of the student body.

Look at Baltimore city. 63.2% black. 28.1% white. 2.4% Asian.
And yeah, Baltimore is Baltimore and people are coming from all over the world to John's Hopkins.

But the whole point of affirmative action policies is to provide some balance in order to accept more students that were working through systemic disadvantages in k-12.


Without quotas limiting immigrant applicants and applicants from oversupplied demographics they would quickly end up with a school that's half asian and half white with zero minorities.


Face it, whether you're asian american or white if you grew up with parents who both had college degrees and paid for private music lessons and tutors and groomed your college resume from middle school on........... you were privileged as fuck.

So quit crying if a latino student or a black student was able to get accepted into an Ivy League school a bit more easily because their application looked more impressive given a lack of privilege and opportunity in their past.




This argument against affirmative action isn't new. It's the exact same argument angry white people with complaining about circa 1996.
 
Asians will just leave. They don't have to take this PC, drag everyone down "diversity". China's about to get a lot of good American educated citizens.
 
Asians have been too busy laughing at white PC culture they didn't see it sneaking up to bite them in the ass.
 
Asians will just leave. They don't have to take this PC, drag everyone down "diversity". China's about to get a lot of good American educated citizens.
Clearly, you have never lived in China.
 
But the whole point of affirmative action policies is to provide some balance in order to accept more students that were working through systemic disadvantages in k-12.

Without quotas limiting immigrant applicants and applicants from oversupplied demographics they would quickly end up with a school that's half asian and half white with zero minorities.

Face it, whether you're asian american or white if you grew up with parents who both had college degrees and paid for private music lessons and tutors and groomed your college resume from middle school on........... you were privileged as fuck.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

The so-called "priviledged" Asian-American high school kids in New York that this topic was made for came from the very same poor immigrants background and live in the poor neighborhoods just like other poor minority kids. We have been through this, or did you somehow missed the entire discussion here?

This is why virtually everyone in this debate would favors a socioeconomic-based program to help out ALL disadvantaged kids, not racist programs that make false assumptions about entire races and put them in neat little boxes the way you do, especially when your "rich and priviledged" Asian box is made up of wildly-different people from different countries, much of which are dirt-poor.

There is one thing that separate the Asian-American families from the others though: the cultural emphasis on hardwork and education that they instilled into their children at an early age, though I'm not sure if you'd consider Cultural Values a "priviledge" as well.
 
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I'm a Korean student that went to Stuyvesant.

One thing I have a huge problem with is this - They keep complaining that the specialized schools are all Asian and white kids - not enough diversity, not enough black and Latino kids.

But within the "Asian" moniker is tremendous diversity; I went to school with Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Filipino, Taiwanese, Malaysian, Indonesian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Indian, Vietnamese, Burmese, Thai, Bukharian, Afghani, Kazakhstani and more students, all of whom are lumped under "Asian."

All of these countries speak different languages, eat different foods, look different and come from all over the globe. Yet they are all one monolithic "Asian" group? WTF is that?

If they counted this diversity instead of grouping them into one group, these specialized schools would the MOST diverse schools in the city.

Another argument is that the students that get in have parents that pay for expensive tutoring. That is true in some cases - however, more than half the students are from POOR families.

Their parents just sacrificed and scrounged to be able to pay for tutoring. They are disadvantaged too.

I didn't even get tutoring. I just bought a Barron's practice test book. Which is like $15-$20 at Barnes & Nobles and ANYONE can buy.

The vast majority of Stuy's students are the children of IMMIGRANT parents. They sacrificed and and gave a shit about their kids education - not complain.

The thing that is different about this test is that it doesn't matter who your parents are, how rich you are, who you know, what recommendations you can get, etc. NONE of that matters.

You pass the test, you get in., You don't pass, you don't get in. I don't know how much fairer you can get.

If you can't pass, you didn't STUDY HARD ENOUGH.

Additionally, you have TWO CHANCES to pass - in 8th and 9th grade. So get a freaking practice test book and study.


The truth is this - the failure to prepare the black and Latino kids happens way before the time to take the test. K-8 education for them SUCKS. In a lot of those predominantly black and Latino schools, they can't even do fractions by 8th grade. How in the hell are they supposed to keep up with the city's brightest students?

And finally - This test is NOT SUPER HARD. And this is not me being cocky. I'm not a genius - at all. I got average grades at Stuy and often below average because I cut class so much.

If you don't have the ability to study and pass this test, you shouldn't get in - period. This is affirmative action gone wrong - for a number of reasons - it takes slots away from much more hard working and deserving students, it won't help the students let in that couldn't pass because they can't keep up, it'll dumb down the school, and diversity doesn't only mean black and Latino students.

I agree with this entire post. Why punish Asians for studying hard and excelling in academics? It's very unfair and RACIST. Boom.
 
You're barking up the wrong tree. The "priviledged" Asian-American kids in New York came from the very same poor immigrants background and ghettos as the other minorities.

There is literally only one thing that separate them with the others: cultural emphasis on education.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/112128059/

Heck, many Asian families came from 3rd world countries that would make any US ghetto look decent. They know how hard it was back home so they work their asses off when they get to the US so they can improve their lives.
 
You're barking up the wrong tree. The "priviledged" Asian-American kids in New York came from the very same poor immigrants background and ghettos as the other minorities.

There is literally only one thing that separate them with the others: cultural emphasis on education.

http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/112128059/

But in the incidence of Hopkins and the statistics provided, those Asian American young adults are accepted to and attending Johns Hopkins at more than double the rate of African American and Latino students COMBINED.

So, again, supply and demand.



Asians have been too busy laughing at white PC culture they didn't see it sneaking up to bite them in the ass.

This is literally the same argument white americans made against affirmative action in the 90s, but rehashed and delivered by asian american speakers.

I understand the system isn't perfect and has room for improvement but I also understand why it's in place.





Also on the diversity front.... yeah Asia is extremely diverse. So is Central America. So is South America. So is Africa. If you're offended that East Asians are lumped together in a demographic are you offended that people of Central American or South American descent are lumped together as Latino even though come from ethnically and demographically diverse regions?

Don't be selfish about your outrage.
 
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Face it, whether you're asian american or white if you grew up with parents who both had college degrees and paid for private music lessons and tutors and groomed your college resume from middle school on........... you were privileged as fuck.

Asians in NYC are the poorest minority group (more than black and Latino families) and have the highest rates of being under the poverty line.
And most of the parents do not have college degrees. They don't even speak English well.

How in the hell is that "privileged?"
The truth is, the Asian students are studying and working much harder - simple as that.
https://nextshark.com/asian-americans-poorest-minority-group-new-york-city/
 
Asians in NYC are the poorest minority group (more than black and Latino families) and have the highest rates of being under the poverty line.
And most of the parents do not have college degrees. They don't even speak English well.

How in the hell is that "privileged?"
The truth is, the Asian students are studying and working much harder - simple as that.
https://nextshark.com/asian-americans-poorest-minority-group-new-york-city/
Your reading comprehension sucks.

You didn't even read what you quoted. There's a conditional statement and you ignored the entire thing.
 
Your reading comprehension sucks.

You didn't even read what you quoted. There's a conditional statement and you ignored the entire thing.

You implied Asian students are privy to music lessons and have educated parents.

I'm pointing out that is not the case in most instances. WTF is so hard to understand about that.

Face it, whether you're asian american or white if you grew up with parents who both had college degrees and paid for private music lessons and tutors and groomed your college resume from middle school on........... you were privileged as fuck..
 
You implied Asian students are privy to music lessons and have educated parents.

I'm pointing out that is not the case in most instances. WTF is so hard to understand about that.

There was no implication. You falsely inferred that. That was your imagination, not my words. Read it again slowly. I described an extremely common background for young adults applying for ivy league schools. I've only been talking about ivy league colleges in this thread, Johns Hopkins as a specific example.

Take my words at face value. WTF is so had to understand about that?
 
Brooklyn president turns on school testing plan after Asian-American donors backlash
By Yoav Gonen | June 18, 2018

eric_adams_153595784.jpg

Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams quietly reversed his support for eliminating the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test after Chinese-American donors pulled out of upcoming fundraisers, The Post has learned.

Two sources told The Post that a June 21 fundraiser planned with Chinese hotel workers in Manhattan was canceled, while other donors from the Chinese community had begun backing out of a separate event.

Adams has been fundraising hard this year for an expected mayoral run in 2021.

“Nothing [moves] faster than when it hits your wallet,” a leader in the Brooklyn Chinese community said of Adams’ change of heart.

The Brooklyn BP was among the first public officials to back Mayor Bill de Blasio’s bid to eliminate the entrance exams, which for years have yielded relatively few black and Hispanic students at the city’s top eight public high schools.

“For years we tried to get rid of this darn test and we’re finally getting rid of this test!” Adams said at the mayor’s press conference on June 3 announcing state legislation to phase out the exam over three years.

But in the face of a severe backlash, Adams organized an emergency meeting with the Asian community just three days later — where he softened his stance that the exam had to go.

Asian students have fared well on the single-exam admissions into the city’s elite high schools, and the Asian community has been vocal in denouncing de Blasio’s plan.

Soon after the community meeting, Adams told select Chinese media that he’s now backing multiple entrance criteria — while keeping the exam — and called for creating one additional specialized high school per borough.

“My goal is not to disappoint friends. The Chinese community and my office, we have cooperated together on many important items,” Adams told The Chinese Press in a video posted June 15. “It’s my goal to let the Chinese community know that I hear you.”

https://nypost.com/2018/06/18/brooklyn-president-turns-on-school-testing-plan-after-donor-backlash/
 
I described an extremely common background for young adults applying for ivy league schools. I've only been talking about ivy league colleges in this thread, Johns Hopkins as a specific example.

Take my words at face value.

I am taking your words at face value. I'm saying young Asian students applying for Ivy Leagues do not commonly have parents that have college degrees - most of them are immigrants that can't speak English fluently.
 
I am taking your words at face value. I'm saying young Asian students applying for Ivy Leagues do not commonly have parents that have college degrees - most of them are immigrants that can't speak English fluently.



And I'm saying from direct experience and statistics, many and perhaps most Asian students attending and graduating Ivy League schools come from very well off families ESPECIALLY those who are in the country on student visas. And the same is not untrue of white graduates of these Ivy League schools whether they are American or not. Go beyond the application data and look at who actually gets in and stays. These schools have been mostly for the wealthy since their inceptions.

If you look at Harvard's MBA program class of 2019, ~ 1/3 of the students moved from another country to attend the school on a student visa. 14% of their MBA program is composed of students from Asia attending on F1 student visas.

Those are not poor people.






But classism has always been at the heart of racism in America.

Capital crafts the racist propaganda to turn labor against each other instead of uniting for a better standard of living for everyone.

This may part of the problem that you're not seeing. Just like wealthy Chinese families are buying up land in Vancouver and the Pacific Northwest, is it possible that wealthy immigrant students are taking up greater portions of racial demographic quotas that make it more difficult for Asian American applicants who are at a disadvantage?


Consider this possibility.

Consider, that it might not be racism but classism that is the boogeyman worthy of hate in this scenario.

If poor Asian American students are having trouble breeching the Ivy Leagues inspite of substantial merit with acceptance rates similar to white students who grow up poor and have similar merits...

What you're seeing in the Ivy Leagues might not be racism per se. It's that these Ivy League schools have always been by the rich for the rich. And while they let some brilliant young adults from poorer backgrounds in, and that is mostly merit based (but of course their other criteria because they're trying to control their diversity and craft it), current affirmative action policies do favor African American and Latino applicants of similar merit in low means. I'm having trouble finding statistics but I wouldn't disagree about the emphasis on education in many East Asian American families and it may well be possible that Harvard is getting significantly more Asian Applicants than Black and Latino applicants. To the owners of these schools, your race is no important than the demographic they want to paint. But the reality is, they turn down a ton of poor people and accept a ton of really rich people. At higher donation levels, merit needed to generate acceptance will slide downward. So the number of high merit low wealth student they accept is pretty limited, and they're trying to paint this racial tableaux, and they have a lot of Asian and white applicants but not as many black and latino applicants.
 
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And I'm saying from direct experience and statistics, many and perhaps most Asian students attending and graduating Ivy League schools come from very well off families ESPECIALLY those who are in the country on student visas. And the same is not untrue of white graduates of these Ivy League schools whether they are American or not. Go beyond the application data and look at who actually gets in and stays. These schools have been mostly for the wealthy since their inceptions.

We are not talking about international, wealthy Asian students from places like China and Singapore. The current suit is comprised of Asian-Americans - completely different group.

But classism has always been at the heart of racism in America.

Legacy admissions are also complete bullshit IMO.

If poor Asian American students are having trouble breeching the Ivy Leagues inspite of substantial merit with acceptance rates similar to white students who grow up poor and have similar merits...

That's the point of the lawsuit - All else being equal, Asian students still have to have better test scores and better grades than other nationalities.

What you're seeing in the Ivy Leagues might not be racism per se. It's that these Ivy League schools have always been by the rich for the rich. And while they let some brilliant young adults from poorer backgrounds in, and that is mostly merit based (but of course their other criteria because they're trying to control their diversity and craft it), current affirmative action policies do favor African American and Latino applicants of similar merit in low means.

We don't need a definition of what affirmative action is. Everybody knows what it is in this thread. The point is - should race be a factor. And to what extent?

I'm arguing the amount that race plays a role is too large. The gap in admissions qualifications is too great for race to play that much of a factor.
 
It's really really simple when it comes to colleges particularly Ivy league schools.

I'm not defending these policies so don't freak out at me personally but it's very easily explained.

1) Affirmative Action.

2) Supply and demand.

Many top schools have had disproportionately large Asian student populations compared to population demographics in their state for a few decades now.

For example a school like John's Hopkins that brags about its diversity is ~20% Asian in student body and ~ 42% white. Black students are ~ 7.2% of the student body.

Look at Baltimore city. 63.2% black. 28.1% white. 2.4% Asian.
And yeah, Baltimore is Baltimore and people are coming from all over the world to John's Hopkins.

But the whole point of affirmative action policies is to provide some balance in order to accept more students that were working through systemic disadvantages in k-12.


Without quotas limiting immigrant applicants and applicants from oversupplied demographics they would quickly end up with a school that's half asian and half white with zero minorities.


Face it, whether you're asian american or white if you grew up with parents who both had college degrees and paid for private music lessons and tutors and groomed your college resume from middle school on........... you were privileged as fuck.

So quit crying if a latino student or a black student was able to get accepted into an Ivy League school a bit more easily because their application looked more impressive given a lack of privilege and opportunity in their past.




This argument against affirmative action isn't new. It's the exact same argument angry white people with complaining about circa 1996.
Racist policies are okay if the victims are white or Asian!
 
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