There are still world records in athletics held by athletes who most likely used Turinabol.

you could have saved your delicate little nurse fingers from writing out the rest of that pseudo bullshit by stopping right there

Fighters wouldn't keep taking them and risk getting caught if they didn't have desired effects that give them an edge /thread
Whatever, man. Fighters who tested positive won just as much as they lost. This is the truth. I am not making this up.
 
Dude, you are extremely confused in the area of counterfactual thinking.

The metric of whether or not PEDs cause differences isn't whether or not you can take them and beat a particular fighter. It's whether or not you are improved from your own baseline.

Much like having lifts in your shoes *will* make you taller, but you still may be shorter than someone else's natural height. But you are taller compared to where you would be without lifts.
Bad example. Wearing lifts with make you appear taller, but that doesn't mean you are taller.

Like I keep telling you, throwing a shot-put is not the same as fighting. If you throw the shot-put 2 meters, and you can't get any better, then you take Turinabol, and you start throwing 2.5 meters consistently, and 100 other athletes experience the same effect, then we can say Turinabol improves shot-put performance.

You keep talking about base-lines, how do we know a fighter's base-line? how do we know a fighter has elevated from his base-line? You can't really know.

Fighting is different. You are not running a race or throwing an object. You are using skills to defeat another competitor.
 
you seriously think any of those olympic records are clean?
 
When people start posting cartoons, then you know they don't have facts to back their arguments. LOL
How am I supposed to respond to such am ignorant post? I'm mocking you. You obviously have little to no understanding of steroids so where to even begin? It's not my job to educate you.
 
Every world record from about 1950 until today was on steroids, they all are.
 
You keep talking about baselines, how do we know a fighter's baseline? how do we know a fighter has elevated from his base-line? You can't really know.

Their baseline is how they perform without PEDs.

How do you know they elevated? Because there is mountains of scientific data that support linkage between intelligent use in [pick a serious PED] and increases in strength/speed/cardio/recovery or wherever the targeted improvement is meant to lie in the particular fighter's case. Strength/speed/cardio/whatever is directly associated with improved fighting performance. Ergo, (intelligent) PED use is associated with better performance.

Dude, you are really overthinking this. Why do you think MMAists risk punishment to use them? Because they make a tangible difference that can elevate their career in some material way. Who would risk punishment for a null effect?
 
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Fighting is different. You are not running a race or throwing an object. You are using skills to defeat another competitor.
You don't think steroids contribute to skill development through enhanced recovery? Train 3x a day? no problem.
You don't think steroids help with strength, endurance (increased red cell production) and aggression? Or you don't think these 3 traits help in MMA? Do you see a lot of champs that are physically weak, gassed and timid??
 
Whatever, man. Fighters who tested positive won just as much as they lost. This is the truth. I am not making this up.

That literally means nothing in terms of the question of whether or not PEDs work.

For one, their opponents could be using PEDs. Second, the PEDs could work, but simply not to the degree that would make up the difference in natural ability. Or some combination.

Imagine sprinting....

Clean Olympic Sprinter 100 Time: 10.3 seconds
Clean AmericanGazelle 100 Time: 14.0 seconds

Now imagine I take a pill that shaves a half second off my time.

Clean Olympic Sprinter 100 Time: 10.3 seconds
Clean AmericanGazelle 100 Time: 13.5 seconds

"You: The clean sprinter beat Gazelle...the pill doesn't work!"

The only thing that statistic would disprove is that PEDs are magic "auto-win" drugs. Which no one in their right mind believes.
 
Whatever, man. Fighters who tested positive won just as much as they lost. This is the truth. I am not making this up.
Yet Jones still used those steroids..... even though they didn't help him win:rolleyes:


Taking steroids doesn't automatically make you the best at anything....yet all these athletes and fighters wouldn't be caught dead without them

I'll take that endorsement over your skewed statistics
 
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That literally means nothing in terms of the question of whether or not PEDs work.

For one, their opponents could be using PEDs. Second, the PEDs could work, but simply not to the degree that would make up the difference in natural ability. Or some combination.

Imagine sprinting....

Clean Olympic Sprinter 100 Time: 10.3 seconds
Clean AmericanGazelle 100 Time: 14.0 seconds

Now imagine I take a pill that shaves a half second off my time.

Clean Olympic Sprinter 100 Time: 10.3 seconds
Clean AmericanGazelle 100 Time: 13.5 seconds

"You: The clean sprinter beat Gazelle...the pill doesn't work!"

The only thing that statistic would disprove is that PEDs are magic "auto-win" drugs. Which no one in their right mind believes.
It means nothing to you because you want to believe something and will only accept information that supports your believe. To me, it shows me a broader picture than just "PEDs work because Jon Jones beat DC," well, what about Frank Mir who took the same PED and got one punch KO'd in the first round? LOL

Anybody could be using or not using. However, in the data I posted, fighters were tested and some where negative and others were positive. This is what we know. It is silly to argue about "what ifs" when the test results show what they show.

Again, sprinting, shot-putting, throwing the javelin, doing the long jump and etc is NOT fighting. You can measure if Turinabol is making you a better sprinter, because your time will decrease. However, just because you can sprint faster it doesn't mean you are a better fighter.

You guys are trying to argue because a guy can run a little bit faster and bench a little bit more he will become a better fighter. I am super skeptical about this leap in logic, because it is not support by any evidence. Even if you just take the "eye test" how often do we see explosive looking athlete lose in the UFC.

If you take Sage Northcutt and Bryan Barberena and make them do a circuit of physical exercises, Sage Northcutt will probably perform better than Bryan. He will probably run faster and have a better bench press. But if you put them in that Octagon and close the gate, Sgae Northcutt is getting choked out.

So, my question to you is "How do you measure that Turinabol has made a person a better fighter?" If you give a fighter Turinabol and he loses the fight, how can you tell me, "it improved his fighting ability?" LOL

If you give turinabol to a sprinter, and he starts running faster, then we know (if we control other variables). Fighting is NOT the same. You can take all the Turinabol you want, and a better fighter will beat you regardless.

The competition in sprinting is running a better time, so you if take turinabol and your time improves, you have your evidence. The competition in fighting is beating another human being, and how much Turinabol will help you achieve this, is debatable. Look at the list I posted, fighters who tested positive were more likely to lose than win. This is the truth. It is on record.
 
How many East German Boxers had to resort to a head kick to defeat a 5 foot 9 pudgy opponent?
 
Again, for the millionth time, throwing a shot put or javelin is not the same as fighting.

In fighting, there is another trained athlete trying to stop you from doing whatever you trained for. In shot put, you are only competing against yourself.

HUUUUGE difference. Anabolic steroids DON'T work in MMA.
http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/

So you're saying that the only difference between TRT Vitor and clean Vitor is the level of competition he faced?
 
What?!?? Professional athletes using drugs to get an edge on the competition? I call bullshit, TS. MY favorite fighters would never stoop so low as to use PED’s; that would be cheating.

***Does GSP nipple tweak to hide the gyno
 
I don't believe you either.

The burden of proof is on you. I posted a list of fighters who where busted after they fought. The numbers show that they lost even more than they won. LOL

At least I have some of sort of support for my opinion, you have none for yours.

You can't use records for shot-put and javelin throwing and extrapolate them to MMA. In MMA you are going against another human being. In javelin, it is all up to you, because your competition is not allowed to try to stop you from making your throw. This makes a big difference.

Until I see this 20% stronger and faster athletes winning fights in a unprecedented ratio, I will hold on to my opinion, anabolic steroids don't work in MMA. LOL

Trt vitor? Uberreem? Lesnar for Christ sake..
 
So you're saying that the only difference between TRT Vitor and clean Vitor is the level of competition he faced?
Nope. I am saying that there is no evidence to prove that anabolic steroids improve fighting ability. If there is, I have yet to see it.

For every TRT Vitor, there are 10 TRT nobodies who will never even make it to the UFC.
 
Again, for the millionth time, throwing a shot put or javelin is not the same as fighting.

In fighting, there is another trained athlete trying to stop you from doing whatever you trained for. In shot put, you are only competing against yourself.

HUUUUGE difference. Anabolic steroids DON'T work in MMA.
http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/
Uhm.. that last part is you being crazy...
I agree with everything else.

If mere TRT treatment was turning Dan and Vitor into monsters because of their experience, yet they both turn to shit after losing it, then no u r wrong.
Big Foot was taking his only for his medical condition only... look how fragile he became after losing it...
Why does this need a burden of proof... how absurd. The roids obviously affect speed, strength, and reflex advantages in every sport which includes combat sports. Since when in MMA any different?
 
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