There is enough talent to make super lightweight (165) without destroying LW/WW

[executionermma]

Important: this is a idea considering that UFC will probably move welterweight (170 lbs) to 175.
Therefore, UFC's divisions would be 155 > 165 > 175 > 185.
Lightweight > Super Lightweight > Welterweight > Middleweight.

The most common and logical argument against new weight classes is that they dilute the talent pool, making divisions almost dead and killing the possibility of new contenders.

Usually, i'd agree with that take and would be against it as well, but then i started doing some research using Bloody Elbow's UFC's roster list and other tools, and i found out that a new 165 lbs weight class wouldn't suffer of or cause such big problem, because right now there's 92 welterweights and 80 lightweights, inactive fighters removed.
This is more than enough to keep 3 divisions going, to keep all 3 competitive and to give healthier and safer options to fighters, decreasing the possibility of fight cancelations, bad weight cuts (which have a negative effect on the quality of fights) and improving the experience of fight fans.

I decided then to organize and i made a possible compilation/rankings based on the fighter's record and size, and i think most people will be surprised how good these 3 divisions will be, even from the beginning.

PS: These are UFC-only records.
PS²: I'm advocating in name of a 165 lbs division, not for 195 or 225. This is another conversation, totally different. Let's keep it specific please.

 

[TheIrishPsycho]

No,

It'll ruin the only strong divisions left in the UFC.

Just get rid of lower weight classes, force the midgets to move up or get out.

Insert clause into champions contracts which states they must defend within a year or the belt is removed. Maybe put situations on top 10 fighters too which forces them to fight or lose their spots.

Problem solved. UFC may not die.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Easily.

 

[Congo66]

Initially it'd be bad but in a few years from now things would be much better.

Khabib would surely be a at 165 and not 155 though, he came from WW and missed LW a couple of times. 165 is ideal for him.

 

[executionermma]

No,

It'll ruin the only strong divisions left in the UFC.

Just get rid of lower weight classes, force the midgets to move up or get out.

Insert clause into champions contracts which states they must defend within a year or the belt is removed. Maybe put situations on top 10 fighters too which forces them to fight or lose their spots.

Problem solved. UFC may not die.

So you are ok with superior fighters losing fights due to bad weight cuts or a size disadvantage? I wanna see the best fighters winning. 15 lbs between 155 and 170 is too much of a gap to let that happen. Size matters a lot when talent is similar.

Initially it'd be bad but in a few years from now things would be much better.

Khabib would surely be a at 165 and not 155 though, he came from WW and missed LW a couple of times. 165 is ideal for him.

Sure, he'd move up, i just kept him at 155 for now because he's the current champ.

 

[HIMBOB]

5 pounds off WW? What is the point.

If you add a new division you need to move 170 to 175.

No,

It'll ruin the only strong divisions left in the UFC.

Just get rid of lower weight classes, force the midgets to move up or get out.

Insert clause into champions contracts which states they must defend within a year or the belt is removed. Maybe put situations on top 10 fighters too which forces them to fight or lose their spots.

Problem solved. UFC may not die.

You can't put conditions like that on rankings.

 

[Carvaso]

I’ve seen 165 mentioned a few times, and I like the idea. But what happens to WW? It stays 170? That’s what I don’t understand. Go from 155>165>170>185?

Doesn’t seem very logical. Jump 10 lbs, then 5lbs, then 15lbs. What the hell?

What about 155>165>175>190>205>265? What am I missing?

 

[bryank]

Good research, appreciate the effort and based on your findings I will cosign this. It does feel like guys need to go through ridiculous win streaks to sniff a title shot and with inactive champs I think we're missing out.

 

[BrookinsFan]

THIS is the weight class we have needed. This weight class will be the most competitive, exciting, and talent-stacked division in the UFC.

155, 165, 175 should be the new arrangement, and I promise you all: Less pullouts from failed weight cuts, less shitty performances from dehydrated goons, and less title challengers clamoring for a belt/interim belt in the same weight class.

...Needs a better name than Super Lightweight though

 

[TheIrishPsycho]

You can't put conditions like that on rankings.

I know,

So i guess im kind of admitting or putting forward....it can't be fixed and will become boxing no matter what we do.

So you are ok with superior fighters losing fights due to bad weight cuts or a size disadvantage? I wanna see the best fighters winning. 15 lbs between 155 and 170 is too much of a gap to let that happen.

I wanna see the best fight the best too and making more divisions will not guarantee that, the only thing i can see it would do is create more marketing tools for the UFC. Fighters make alot more money with titles and seem to try to stall or fight money fights and not contenders when they finally get it. I don't see how its going to fix it or allow us to see better fighters.

As for superior fighters, also not sure how more weight classes will give that.

Whos to say Cowboy Cerone doesn't fight better when beating up smaller LWs? Or Jon Jones towers over LHWs. What makes alot of those guys great is their ability to cut that weight and fight at that weight class. There is no evidence to suggest also that making more weight classes will stop a bigger guy cutting down. Small LHWs and average MWs like Rashad or Shogun could have conceivably cut down to 175 if they really tryed just like many cut alot of weight today...so you still have problems with guys cutting too much weight.

I wouldn't really be against additional weight classes but i don't think it will help, it will only put the UFC on a more slippy slope towards the boxing model where you have 100 belts and no one can name 5 champions. I fear that, even though its going to happen - no stopping it.

 

[Goodfella86]

I'm fine with the 15 lb gap. The last thing I want to see is another weight class added. It's important that this sport not turn to shit by trying to be like other sports.

I could be wrong. There's a line somewhere. I think it's just best to draw the line now. Because, even if the weight classes were separated by 10 lbs, that same argument for new weight classes wouldn't go away. I guarantee there'd eventually be a push for 5 lb separations. It doesn't seem like it now, but trust me, there would be. There's always gonna be a fighter in that gray area between two weight classes who never got the belt and is the quintessential example of why a new class should be created.

Like I said, we all have our ideas on where to draw the line. I just don't want to make even one concession, because I feel like there will be a guy at 195 making the same argument next week.

 

[VitorBelfoTRT]

I’ve seen 165 mentioned a few times, and I like the idea. But what happens to WW? It stays 170? That’s what I don’t understand. Go from 155>165>170>185?

Doesn’t seem very logical. Jump 10 lbs, then 5lbs, then 15lbs. What the hell?

What about 155>165>175>190>205>265? What am I missing?

Yes, the creation of 65 would eliminate 70 and create 75. Its weird though, 'cause if Woodley is considered a small welterweight that gives the bigger guys like Till an advantage. 70 has always been fine. Its 55 where guys are having trouble making weight but theyre scared to go to 70 cause the guys there arent their size either. Example: Kevin Lee. Idk, its a confusing topic for me. I still dont know where I stand on it.

 

[BiC Fist]

Ridiculous, 5lbs difference SLW and WW is a laughable division gap. We don't need another weightclass to give small WWs (not many) and bigger LWs (more of them, but still few) money fights.

 

[executionermma]

5 pounds off WW? What is the point.

If you add a new division you need to move 170 to 175.

I’ve seen 165 mentioned a few times, and I like the idea. But what happens to WW? It stays 170? That’s what I don’t understand. Go from 155>165>170>185?

Doesn’t seem very logical. Jump 10 lbs, then 5lbs, then 15lbs. What the hell?

What about 155>165>175>190>205>265? What am I missing?

I don't wanna be a dick, but come on guys. That is explained/said in my first post:

considering ofc that UFC will probably move welterweight (170 lbs) to 175

Ridiculous, 5lbs difference SLW and WW is a laughable division gap. We don't need another weightclass to give small WWs (not many) and bigger LWs (more of them, but still few) money fights.

170 would go to 175, finish reading, please.

 

[jonathan274]

The most common and logical argument against new weight classes is that they dilute the talent pool, making divisions almost dead and killing the possibility of new contenders.

Usually, i'd agree with that take and would be against it as well, but then i started doing some research using Bloody Elbow's UFC's roster list and other tools, and i found out that a new 165 lbs weight class wouldn't suffer of or cause such big problem, because right now there's 92 welterweights and 80 lightweights, inactive fighters removed.
This is more than enough to keep 3 divisions going, to keep all 3 competitive and to give healthier and safer options to fighters, decreasing the possibility of fight cancelations, bad weight cuts (which have a negative effect on the quality of fights) and improving the experience of fight fans.

I decided then to organize and i made a possible compilation/rankings based on the fighter's record and size, considering ofc that UFC will probably move welterweight (170 lbs) to 175, and i think most people will be surprised how good these 3 divisions will be, even from the beginning.

PS: These are UFC-only records.
PS²: I'm advocating in name of a 165 lbs division, not for 195 or 225. This is another conversation, totally different. Let's keep it specific please.

Voted No and I don't get why this topic keeps coming up. Creating a division 5 lbs from WW seems pointless unless you adjust ww and possibly MW thresholds.

 

[executionermma]

Voted No and I don't get why this topic keeps coming up. Creating a division 5 lbs from WW seems pointless unless you adjust ww and possibly MW thresholds.

No one fucking reads in Sherdog? For fucks sake, it's clear in my post that 170 would be moved to 175.

 

[jonathan274]

No one fucking reads in Sherdog? For fucks sake, it's clear in my post that 170 would be moved to 175.

Sorry If it isn't work and I see a wall of text I tend to zone out.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I don' t have any inherent problem with 165 lb division. But I think the timing couldn't be worse imo. Almost every division in the UFC is currently a mess. I think a few years of no nonsense match-making is needed to shore up the title picture at both LW and at WW first. (Woodley has been a good champ, but he's hurt. I'm mostly talking about LW).

 

[executionermma]

I'm fine with the 15 lb gap. The last thing I want to see is another weight class added. It's important that this sport not turn to shit by trying to be like other sports.

I could be wrong. There's a line somewhere. I think it's just best to draw the line now. Because, even if the weight classes were separated by 10 lbs, that same argument for new weight classes wouldn't go away. I guarantee there'd eventually be a push for 5 lb separations. It doesn't seem like it now, but trust me, there would be. There's always gonna be a fighter in that gray area between two weight classes who never got the belt and is the quintessential example of why a new class should be created.

Like I said, we all have our ideas on where to draw the line. I just don't want to make even one concession, because I feel like there will be a guy at 195 making the same argument next week.

I totally understand where you are coming from and why you feel in that way, but just like me, you can be reasonable and agree with 165 and disagree with 195..
Each case has it's specifics, like how many fighters are out there suffering bad weigh cuts in the divisions under (185), how many are being undersized at the division above (205) etc. There isn't a great case for 195, for 165 there is. Very different.

 

[markys00]

So you are ok with superior fighters losing fights due to bad weight cuts or a size disadvantage? I wanna see the best fighters winning. 15 lbs between 155 and 170 is too much of a gap to let that happen. Size matters a lot when talent is similar.

Sure, he'd move up, i just kept him at 155 for now because he's the current champ.

Im not sure how u do it. Once someone puts the word midget when talking about 125, its a clear indication of their mental capabilities. Probably weighs 260 and 5'8, would make bw no problen if he was fit. Sad world