Thoughts on Rickson's BJJ/Self Defense claims?

After following this thread for a while, something needs to be said regardless of whether or not you agree with Rickson or believe in "self-defense"...

You guys understand that johnsouth is clearly a fanatic right? I grew up as the son of a Pentecostal preacher and the way he talks about God and "master" Rickson and sees any reasonable discussion or disagreement as tantamount to heresy reminds me of the fanatical stuff I grew up around and see still sometimes today in cults.
So you understand arguing with him is like yelling at a wall right?

If it's like yelling at a wall it's only because I don't respond to yelling.

It's when the name calling, misrepresentation and shaming starts I have a problem. The paragraph above is a good example.

Please don't derail this thread, we just got it back and I said my piece.
 
Alright fine let's keep this on topic...My primary problem with a lot of the "self-defense" stuff taught by the Gracies and others is that they are a lot of the time depending on your opponent not knowing what they are doing. I have been in or seen way too many real world altercations where someone got fucked up because they didn't realize the person they were in an altercation with was or formally: In the military, wrestled some in H.S. or College, trained and fought MMA, or was just a mean mother fucker who knew how to fight and was big and athletic... So basing a lot of your self-defense stuff on the assumption your opponent probably won't know what their doing is retarded to me
So Joe Rogan has a quote that always struck a chord with me..."What works against trained killers will work against everybody"

This is IMO the basic things that are required for a true "self-defense" art are...
1. Train Judo or Wrestling against trained opponents so that you can (against most opponents dictate where the fight goes)

2. Train a PROVEN striking art (muay tai, boxing, kickboxing, etc.) with the understanding that you can't hit the same way without gloves/tapes...duh

3. TRAIN GI AND NOGI BJJ: Gi to get more technical and some clothes can be manipulated the same way. Nogi because you won't always have handles to grab and you need to know what to do without them. Also training nogi will help emphasize, especially with striking involved, that top is the better place to be in a fight, particularly if your opponent is bigger and you have no convenient handles from the gi or a hoodie to grab

4. AT LEAST 50% of the time spar (primarily with your grappling, obliviously you can't spar full speed as much with striking ) or go full go live so that your responses and techniques are trained and prepared for a fully resisting opponent at full speed.

5. Occasionally train with white belts or "spazzes" so you aren't caught completely off guard by an untrained opponent almost catching you with something no "trained" opponent in their right mind would do.

6. If your opponent has a weapon and you don't...you're probably fucked and need to comply and/or deescalate the situation. And saying that there are "high-percentage" ways to disarm them is disingenuous and irresponsible

7. Training basic striking, takedowns, and nogi grappling is important to teach people that it doesn't matter how hard you train, how technical you are, how much leverage you use, and cool the martial art you train is...there will ALWAYS be: bigger, more athletic, more talented, and will always be able to beat your ass

Basically it can be argued I just said train MMA. Well "the things that work against trained killers will work against everyone". However trying to say ONE art is the "best" is retarded and just marketing. And training to beat untrained opponents who don't know what they're doing is not intelligent nor honest about the real world.

TLDR: Basing a "Self-Defense" art primarily on defeating untrained opponents who don't know what they're doing is retarded
 
. Also training nogi will help emphasize, especially with striking involved, that top is the better place to be in a fight, particularly if your opponent is bigger and you have no convenient handles from the gi or a hoodie to grab
d
Days1vBXkAAeh7l.jpg
 
Necro but what the hell.

First, the final ten or fifteen minutes of that interview with Rogan are EPIC. As far as the philosophy of life goes.

SECOND, he says Kron can beat Jon Jones. Lololololololoooooollllll

Why do Gracies want to see their sons die? That said, he would have finished the armbar vitor couldn't.
 
SECOND, he says Kron can beat Jon Jones. Lololololololoooooollllll
Why do Gracies want to see their sons die? That said, he would have finished the armbar vitor couldn't.

As Rickson is a TMA bullshitter nowadays. If he claimed that he can deadlift 2000lbs with his new invisible technique his disciples would believe him. They are the same sort of people who believe Morihei Ueshiba defeated a polar bear with a wrist lock
It's a little sad that Kron is like 100x better than his dad in his prime but he is still in his shadow because of the cloud of bullshit.
 
Last edited:
Nowadays, in the mind of the BJJ practionners around the world, the Gracie name lives through the Gracie-Barra lineage and with the main star being Renzo's academie in New York. Rener Gracie is like a fun sidekick with cool videos and him being a self defense guru. But for most people BJJ is a sport. We understand it's a sport, we understand that it won't be flawless in ''da streets'' we just want to get better at our sport. We don't want self defense classes. Maybe for him I'll never be a true BJJ practionner, but I don't really care about his opinion, I respect the guy and what he accomplished, but he doesn't have a say in how I live my life.
 
Nowadays, in the mind of the BJJ practionners around the world, the Gracie name lives through the Gracie-Barra lineage and with the main star being Renzo's academie in New York. Rener Gracie is like a fun sidekick with cool videos and him being a self defense guru. But for most people BJJ is a sport. We understand it's a sport, we understand that it won't be flawless in ''da streets'' we just want to get better at our sport. We don't want self defense classes. Maybe for him I'll never be a true BJJ practionner, but I don't really care about his opinion, I respect the guy and what he accomplished, but he doesn't have a say in how I live my life.

What a tough opinion. I'd hate to see BJJ turn into TKD because of a mindset like this.
 
Just that you dont know what youre talking about
How so? I have hours of mma fights that can back up my claim, years of experience, etc, etc.

What’s your experience, and how exactly am I wrong about how in a fight with no gi or clothes to grab against a bigger opponent.. it’s not better to be on top? I’m genuinely curious given you just tried to call me dweeb
 
Not reading all of this, but I just consider it a legend. A myth. I'm sure his BJJ is fantastic but I don't believe in the 500-0 legend.
 
How so? I have hours of mma fights that can back up my claim, years of experience, etc, etc.

What’s your experience, and how exactly am I wrong about how in a fight with no gi or clothes to grab against a bigger opponent.. it’s not better to be on top? I’m genuinely curious given you just tried to call me dweeb
How many hours of MMA fights have you been in?
You're that experienced and can't get a finish? You must not know much about fighting.
 
How many hours of MMA fights have you been in?
You're that experienced and can't get a finish? You must not know much about fighting.
Excuse me. Hours and hours of film of mma showing that top position is a better position to be in.. have you not watched fights since 2002? If you’re going to necro a thread to insult me.. at least back it up even if you’re trolling
 
What a tough opinion. I'd hate to see BJJ turn into TKD because of a mindset like this.

At this point anyone in sport bjj talking crap on sport tkd is being a hypocrite.

I don't really see the correlation between self defense and the taekwondonisation of BJJ

The real problem with BJJ is the IBJJF ruleset, guard pulling, advantages strategies... There's other rulesets that can or are on the way of making the sport more submission centered. The solution is to continue to promote EBI rules, sub only events, ADCC rules... Not just the IBJJF ruleset. The schools will then teach more according to these rulesets and we will have better BJJ from it.

The problem is not how people drill, roll and train, it's more about what's their strategy is to win a BJJ match. If the criterias to win change, they will drill, roll and train differently and some strategies will drop at the same time. For an exemple, Grappling industries is working hard on the Montreal market, we are on a competition ban and they promote events in Plattsburgh NY just across the border. They have a lot more leg locks allowed in their ruleset and my coaches started to include more leg locks in the curriculum, and more guys are putting them into their games. This is a step in the right direction instead of just training for IBJJF ruleset.

But Self defense have nothing to do with the ''quality'' of BJJ we have. There's no good BJJ coming from playing pro-wrestling like scenarios in a self defense class.
 
What a tough opinion. I'd hate to see BJJ turn into TKD because of a mindset like this.

Actually, he was saying that Gracie jiu jitsu and it's self defense policy and no emphasis on sport bjj is its own downfall.

But hell, if you think sport bjj is turning into tkd....why not?

If you want to use analogy...


then I would think that specific gjj schools have turned into aikido.

I find it disturbing that someone can claim that they can solve all self defense scenario by teaching a specific martial program based on ground grappling.


Well anyway, I happily teach sport bjj and it by product or if you want to call side effects is that you can submit trained resisting opponent.
 
The schools will then teach more according to these rulesets and we will have better BJJ from it.

Better for what? Better for heel hooking people for sure.
Sub only is a super weird game when looking at it from a standard points based perspective.
Takedowns and sweeps are of very limited use for it. Passing isn't important. Heel hooks are the most important thing by a far margin.
 
Better for what? Better for heel hooking people for sure.
Sub only is a super weird game when looking at it from a standard points based perspective.
Takedowns and sweeps are of very limited use for it. Passing isn't important. Heel hooks are the most important thing by a far margin.


My white belt student told me that if someone attack on the streets. He will sit down and HH him via DDS style.
 
Better for what? Better for heel hooking people for sure.
Sub only is a super weird game when looking at it from a standard points based perspective.
Takedowns and sweeps are of very limited use for it. Passing isn't important. Heel hooks are the most important thing by a far margin.

It's a phase, people will learn to avoid the heel hook (still waiting for the best in the world to show me how). Leandro Lo was able to avoid Craig Jones's heel hooks but gave up is back doing it.

I think that sub only mixed with overall fight dominance evaluated by judges may be the answer. You wouldn't want to leave the fight in the hands of the judges but at least, if you were the aggressor and you put yourself in a good position to finish you still get the win.
 
Back
Top