Training in keto, fighting on carbs?

[CelebritySexist]

Anyone tried doing this? I reckon going keto will resolve my weight issues, but I'm skeptical as to the ability of a ketogenic regime to comfortably handle the stress of a fight.

Would going into a "carbed" state on the day of the fight after the weigh-in produce a spike in performance, or a spike in insulin and its terrible consequences?

 

[mtruitt76]

A keto diet is not going to support your training if your training has any level of intensity to it. Managing your calories will resolve your weight issues.

To lose weight on keto you have to maintain a calorie deficit just like you would with any other diet and you won't see a greater degree of weight lose with keto unless you have a degree of insulin resistance. Keto diets are not recommended for athletes. Athletes need carbs.

 

[JusticeMonkey]

Check out Tim Ferris' the Four Hour Body. There is a Slow-Carb approach detailed there (actually that chapter is free online.) He writes extensively on insulin.

 

[JerkWeed]

Running Times Magazine: Running on Empty

 

[miaou]

A keto diet is not going to support your training if your training has any level of intensity to it. Managing your calories will resolve your weight issues.

This.

 

[Sinister]

Anyone tried doing this? I reckon going keto will resolve my weight issues, but I'm skeptical as to the ability of a ketogenic regime to comfortably handle the stress of a fight.

Would going into a "carbed" state on the day of the fight after the weigh-in produce a spike in performance, or a spike in insulin and its terrible consequences?

It depends on how your carb-tolerance is in general, what time of day you do it, and what source(s) you use. Too much insulin activity can result in drowsiness. But I've seen a few fighters eat post weigh-in (after being weight drained period, never mind how they did it), and have to nap, but feel better once they awaken. IMO that's not a bad way to go if you have time. In some cases of same-day weigh-ins, though, there may not be time. A friend and Amateur competitor in Ireland, who uses both low-carb nutrition and IF during training, uses a pre-fight blend of protein, a small portion of glucose polymers, and a bunch of blueberries. There didn't seem to be any negative reaction to that when used within an hour before a bout or tournament.

 

[mtruitt76]

Running Times Magazine: Running on Empty

How is this applicable?

 

[Ironpants]

A keto diet is not going to support your training if your training has any level of intensity to it. Managing your calories will resolve your weight issues.

To lose weight on keto you have to maintain a calorie deficit just like you would with any other diet and you won't see a greater degree of weight lose with keto unless you have a degree of insulin resistance. Keto diets are not recommended for athletes. Athletes need carbs.

It's not written in stone that carbs are absolutly needed for intesnce physical activities. In most cases the average person with a glycolytic metabolism will because their body runs off carbs but once you become fat adapted you simply won't need them.

And as I've found out over the past few months the whole calorie counting thing simply doesn't matter when your going low or sans carbs.


As for TS that actually sounds like a good idea, so I think you should do it.

 

[miaou]

It's not written in stone that carbs are absolutly needed for intesnce physical activities. In most cases the average person with a glycolytic metabolism will because their body runs off carbs but once you become fat adapted you simply won't need them.

And as I've found out over the past few months the whole calorie counting thing simply doesn't matter when your going low or sans carbs.

 

[MMAsuppguru]

For pretraining purposes, eat carbs bro. As for post training, you can intake monounsaturated fats insteads of carbs with your protein bro.

 

[XTrainer]

Anyone tried doing this? I reckon going keto will resolve my weight issues, but I'm skeptical as to the ability of a ketogenic regime to comfortably handle the stress of a fight.

Would going into a "carbed" state on the day of the fight after the weigh-in produce a spike in performance, or a spike in insulin and its terrible consequences?

I think the best advice would be to experiment with it, as you would need to do for any other pre-fight dietary approach.

 

[Ironpants]

TS just read this article I think it will give you the awnser you are looking for.

T NATION | One Hundred Gram Carb Cure

 

[golvmopp]

It's not written in stone that carbs are absolutly needed for intesnce physical activities. In most cases the average person with a glycolytic metabolism will because their body runs off carbs but once you become fat adapted you simply won't need them.

This, I most definately agree with. I was able to run through an extended MMA-session on an LCHF calorie-deficit with no ill-effects.

And as I've found out over the past few months the whole calorie counting thing simply doesn't matter when your going low or sans carbs.

This, however, I do NOT agree with. At all.

 

[Ironpants]

This, I most definately agree with. I was able to run through an extended MMA-session on an LCHF calorie-deficit with no ill-effects.

Yeah, carbs are overrated in that sense. I train fasted or on practically no carbs and I've never had energy issues

This, however, I do NOT agree with. At all.

I think counting carbs is more accurate then counting calories thats all. It's plays a more direct role in actual weight gain then simply counting total calories. Obviously I'm not suggesting that one can eat unlimited calories sans carb, but they can definatly eat much more calories in the absence/limited intake of carbohydrates in the diet then they normally would.

 

[golvmopp]

I think counting carbs is more accurate then counting calories thats all. It's plays a more direct role in actual weight gain then simply counting total calories. Obviously I'm not suggesting that one can eat unlimited calories sans carb, but they can definatly eat much more calories in the absence/limited intake of carbohydrates in the diet then they normally would.

I think you're being too subjective here. Genetics play a huge part in any results you're bound to get, whether it be training or dieting - I can tell you for a fact that I have an extremely easy time putting weight on if I don't watch my calorie-balance. Not counting calories on an LCHF-diet would be suicidally counterproductive for me. The appeal of it however, apart from the energyboost and motivation I get, is the fact that I can eat myself full because the staples of the "diet" have a high satiety/calorie-ratio.

 

[miaou]

Yeah, carbs are overrated in that sense. I train fasted or on practically no carbs and I've never had energy issues

I think counting carbs is more accurate then counting calories thats all. It's plays a more direct role in actual weight gain then simply counting total calories. Obviously I'm not suggesting that one can eat unlimited calories sans carb, but they can definatly eat much more calories in the absence/limited intake of carbohydrates in the diet then they normally would.

Can you provide any sort of objective proof for any of those two claims?

 

[Ironpants]

Can you provide any sort of objective proof for any of those two claims?

Well I will tell you that carbs are better in terms of high intesity activities, whearas fats are better for longer, low to moderate activites. One energy source isn't necceserily better then the other. But personaly I've been able to do weights and cardio low carb and haven't run into any energy issues.

As for the second statement there is a whole slew of techical reasons why it's not necessrilly caloric intake that detemines weight gain. All three macros get procesed differently and used by the body for different functions, they certainly do not all equal end an end sum number. It's got more to do with hormonal responces and bio-chemical reactions in the body rather then a magic number. If you really want me to get technical about it I will but for now I'll leave it at that.

I think you're being too subjective here. Genetics play a huge part in any results you're bound to get, whether it be training or dieting - I can tell you for a fact that I have an extremely easy time putting weight on if I don't watch my calorie-balance. Not counting calories on an LCHF-diet would be suicidally counterproductive for me. The appeal of it however, apart from the energyboost and motivation I get, is the fact that I can eat myself full because the staples of the "diet" have a high satiety/calorie-ratio.

I have an extremely easy time putting on weight if I don't watch carbs. Yeah it could be genetics maybe because I have some freinds who eat all kinds of flithy carb/sugar loaded shit and remain lean at low BF%. I will agree that you are less likey to overeat on a fat based diet but I have not really gave much thought to it once I started low-carbing, just eat by feeling.

 

[miaou]

Well I will tell you that carbs are better in terms of high intesity activities, whearas fats are better for longer, low to moderate activites. One energy source isn't necceserily better then the other. But personaly I've been able to do weights and cardio low carb and haven't run into any energy issues.

As for the second statement there is a whole slew of techical reasons why it's not necessrilly caloric intake that detemines weight gain. All three macros get procesed differently and used by the body for different functions, they certainly do not all equal end an end sum number. It's got more to do with hormonal responces and bio-chemical reactions in the body rather then a magic number. If you really want me to get technical about it I will but for now I'll leave it at that.

Regarding the first point, can you provide an example or two of a "longer sport activity" where "fats are better" just so I understand what you're talking about here? Because I can't think of a single one (unless you are talking about activities which have nothing to do with competitive sports, like taking a relaxed walk or something).

Regarding the second statement, I don't want you to get technical, I want you to provide some kind of objective proof (as in results from relevant studies). All the theories in the world are worth jack shit if you don't have empirical evidence to substantiate them.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

I personally am one of these people who is quite carb intolerant, this has become more and more obvious to me as time's gone on.

I have lost track of the amount of times I have been very angry with myself for eating carbs and feeling too lethargic to properly train. However, I do accept that not everyone is like me and some people can handle them a lot better.

The only time I really eat larger amounts of carbs meal is PWO.

I am not personally sure of the answer to the TS' original question. I think that training in a keto state and the fighting carbed up is a gamble and could go either way.

 

[mtruitt76]

I think counting carbs is more accurate then counting calories thats all. It's plays a more direct role in actual weight gain then simply counting total calories. Obviously I'm not suggesting that one can eat unlimited calories sans carb, but they can definatly eat much more calories in the absence/limited intake of carbohydrates in the diet then they normally would.

I am with miaou on this, curious about your sources for this statement. In past conversations I recall you basing your sentiments off personal experience, but the diet you listed where you where consuming carbs had a fat intake that was 10% of total calories.

Things like calories, activity levels ect pretty much stayed the same. Eat at maintaince (2700) and lifted 2x week. No cardio because of knee trouble. Only thing I did was replace the carbs for fats and protiens and made sure I was sub 100g carb a day except for 1 day a week were I'd do a refeed. So I basically went from a diet that was CHO/-%60 PRO/-%30 FAT/-%10 at 2700 to one that was CHO/-%10 PRO 25% FAT/ 65%. and my BF% started dropping.

You can't make a determination that carbs hindered your weight loss since you were only eating 30g of fat per day which is the appropriate amount for someone who weighs less than 60-75lbs. Such a low fat intake would screw up your hormones. A fat intake of less than 20% of total calories has been linked to lower testosterone levels.