Triangle Choke - Counter to Defense

M

marbowers

Guest
At my school the common defence to the triangle is to take the arm thats trapped and circle it around my hips and lock hands w/ the free hand. My instructor has told me to try going to a reverse triangle, levering the arm out, and going to omoplata but these are all things that people I train with look out for. Anyone have any ideas on what to do about this?

I try to control the arm that will be trapped while I'm slapping the traingle on and use my free hand to pull on their head, but as soon as I release their arm to pull on my shin and tighten the choke, the immediatley wrap their arms behind my hips again, and throw their legs over as if they were going for a Boston Crab, except they just fall back and use the pressure to open the triangle. Is there any possible way to control the arm and head all while pulling my shin?

Again thank you for any tips.
 
First off, work on your flexibility. You should be able to throw up your legs and lock down for the triangle without having to use your hand to tighten your cross leg.

Secondly, don't let go of that arm. That arm is like...eh...the third most important part of that choke.

Don't forget to curl your hooking leg down reaaaaaal hard. Just like a leg curl. Squeeze your thighs.

But, most imfuckingportantly: shift your hips. You shouldn't be parallel to your opponent, you should be perpendicular. A good triangle doesn't even need the head pull. A good triangle keeps you from getting stacked or punched, and if your hips are in the right position they shouldn't have enough room to get the overhook on your leg.

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If you're not doing it like this, then you're doing it wrong.
 
Oh, and what Dean doesn't do is show you the hip scootch. You should be able to get a good pivot by using pushing the neck with the crossing leg. If you're stuck straight-on, underhook the leg of the side you need to swing to.

Parallel Triangle = Bad Jujutsu
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Wrong.

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Fail.


Perpendicular Triangle = Profuse Tapping

And yes, you CAN finish a parallel triangle. I'm sure everyone here has done it. It doesn't mean it's good technique. It's not.

As for Defense against being triangled..well...who's this sexy fella?

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You can also stack and do a can opener.

Now, as far as countering the overhook defense? It's real simple: switch your legs and triangle away from the arm. Same principles apply: scoot your hips, squeeze your legs.


Moral of the story: Do Triangles the right way.
 
Wow that's a lot of great information 1.)Working on flexibility 2.)Using the crossing leg to scoot out and 3.)Not even pulling the head down just getting the right angle. Thanks, I already knew about not being straight on but I didn't know I wouldn't have to pull the head down.

Btw though, could elaborate on the overhook defense, do you mean reverse triangle it and scoot my hips out? If so in what direction?
 
RJ Green said:
Oh, and what Dean doesn't do is show you the hip scootch. You should be able to get a good pivot by using pushing the neck with the crossing leg. If you're stuck straight-on, underhook the leg of the side you need to swing to.

Parallel Triangle = Bad Jujutsu
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Wrong.

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Fail.


Perpendicular Triangle = Profuse Tapping

And yes, you CAN finish a parallel triangle. I'm sure everyone here has done it. It doesn't mean it's good technique. It's not.

As for Defense against being triangled..well...who's this sexy fella?

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You can also stack and do a can opener.

Now, as far as countering the overhook defense? It's real simple: switch your legs and triangle away from the arm. Same principles apply: scoot your hips, squeeze your legs.


Moral of the story: Do Triangles the right way.
Click to expand...

OMFG, the triangle in that 2nd video made me gag.
 
Like everything in BJJ it's all timing. You have to nail him as soon as the arm comes around the bottom for the defense. He'll be tucking his head and leaning forward.

Execution - The effectiveness of this choke is based on the positioning and strength of the legs. You want to try and straighten your legs (keeping your ankles crossed) and use your arms as a rope to keep them right together. This is a crushing choke if applied coorectly.

Teepee is a conical tent - You legs form this position. I thought it was a very descriptive name.
 
RJ Green said:
As for Defense against being triangled..well...who's this sexy fella?

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Click to expand...

This is one time I dont agree with Mikey Triangles (and I train with him so its certainly not personal) but I dont ever like to circle into chokes! If you circle towards the leg that is across your neck u risk putting yourself deeper into the choke. I know it should be done a certain way (as Mikey says explosively) and you should have a certain grip but nothing goes that smoothly in real time. You risk the guy grabbing underneath your leg and keeping you at that angle and u are also giving him a better angle for the arm bar.

That defense will def work if all goes well but for me it leaves too much to chance, and you need some insane flexibility.

Im all about the posture if I can! Dean Listers video is top notch! That is the perfecttttttttttttttt triangle!!
 
I've tried the teepee, and me being a small guy, it doesn't work too well against big buys.
 
Another (kinda dirty) way to make the triangle work is to use your fist against the neck. One leg is on the neck, the other is under the arm. The neck is exposed on that side. Grab the collar of the gi (on the exposed side) and turn your fist in toward the neck. Then pull the head down with the other hand.
 
RJ Green said:
First off, work on your flexibility. You should be able to throw up your legs and lock down for the triangle without having to use your hand to tighten your cross leg.
Click to expand...


You reckon? It's just that's not what I've been told by a fair few black belts- all of whom say that you should go up, cross the ankles (guard style) around the arm and neck then grab your own shin whilst you re-adjust yourself (I.E. angle, distance between your hips and theirs, then knee over ankle).

I can't do triangles at all without using my hand and doing it this way (and I'm a flexible guy- esp in the hip department- since my TKD days).
 
Kyokushin_6'4";25662599 said:
Another (kinda dirty) way to make the triangle work is to use your fist against the neck. One leg is on the neck, the other is under the arm. The neck is exposed on that side. Grab the collar of the gi (on the exposed side) and turn your fist in toward the neck. Then pull the head down with the other hand.
Click to expand...

I've done that one before. Rich Clementi did it to me in a roll once and I was like "WTF! CHEAP!" but now I use it if I get the chance. Much like the ompelata, it's a very clever move.
 
But is it possible to get back to the regular triangle once they've overhooked behind my hips? I have a hard time levering the arm out, even when I get it behind the arm, gable grip and torque trying to pull the arm out.
 
Mr. Switch said:
You reckon? It's just that's not what I've been told by a fair few black belts- all of whom say that you should go up, cross the ankles (guard style) around the arm and neck then grab your own shin whilst you re-adjust yourself (I.E. angle, distance between your hips and theirs, then knee over ankle).

I can't do triangles at all without using my hand and doing it this way (and I'm a flexible guy- esp in the hip department- since my TKD days).
Click to expand...

I can see what you're saying. I think they may have been using this as sort of a learning segue for you. Are you still parallel when you have to use your hand to pull your shin down? One day I asked the Grandmaster why he didn't want me pulling the head in a triangle.

"Because if you triangleis a right, you no needy pulling head down. Should be pulling arm and squeegee your leg. If you needing doing the other things is, then technique is a wrong."

Look at Dean Lister's video again. I mean, anyone can feel free to disagree with me about this, and I'm not saying a parallel triangle DOESN'T work, but as far as I'm concerned that's the definitive triangle. You can't stack it, you can't turn it, you can't pick up out of it, you can't can opener it, and you don't have to re-adjust anything for the armbar.

I guess what I'm saying is practice more? I'm not the end-all-be-all god of grappling, but this is how I'm triangling now, and it always, always works.
 
marbowers said:
But is it possible to get back to the regular triangle once they've overhooked behind my hips? I have a hard time levering the arm out, even when I get it behind the arm, gable grip and torque trying to pull the arm out.
Click to expand...

Well, again, if you're perpendicular they can't use the overhook defense. Now, saying that they've got it, you switch your legs. You triangle the other way, you swing your hips the other way, you squeeze your legs down and kind of roll them forward. It fucking hurts. A lot. Don't even dick with their arm, let them keep it there.

Another thing you can do when you're getting overhooked is swing around for the omoplata. It's already there for you: control their posture and get your leg to the ground. Rubber guard your leg over their head and swing around for the omoplata. What's he call that? Chill dog?

Like I've said though, if you're parallel triangling you're making things difficult for yourself. As soon as you get that leg over their arm swing around and lock that sumbitch up. It works. Look at all of the Kosen Judo videos. None of those guys bother grabbing the head, either.

Although, you CAN grab the head off the perpendicular triangle. You don't need to, but it'll expedite their tapping from a few seconds to immediately.
 
kimura, omoplata, and reverse triangle are great options for when they try that defense. If you have a good angle you can finish them without the arm across, although it's a little more difficult.
 
reach for an underhook under one of his legs and try and sweep, he'll have to release his grip to post out and then u finish the sub
 
kimura or sweep more options holding the head is the biggest key it gives you time to do whatever you want.
HOLD THE HEAD. AND SCOOT TO THE SIDE.
 
Damnit. Last night someone just showed me the counter to the triangle defense you mentioned.

But then I got choked out and forgot it. Gotta ask him again tonight...
 
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