Trump admin to cut funding for clean air and energy efficiency programs by %72

So it doesn't matter if money is being wasted anywhere as long as the check says "for the environment" on it?
How do you know money is wasted? One can make your argument for any and all government funded programs.

We can say money is wasted on: defense spending, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, public transport, infrastructure, EPA, BLM, NASA, National Labs, Forestry Service etc... And it is very likely that all government funded agencies and programs do have some wastage, so we should do away with all this spending, that is the conclusion of your argument.
 
How do you know money is wasted? One can make your argument for any and all government funded programs.

We can say money is wasted on: defense spending, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, public transport, infrastructure, EPA, BLM, NASA, National Labs, Forestry Service etc... And it is very likely that all government funded agencies and programs do have some wastage, so we should do away with all this spending, that is the conclusion of your argument.
How do you know its not? Direct your questions at yourself too.
 
Give it a rest with the whining about every fucking thing that happens until you know whats actually going on.

And it just so happens that you have the inside scoop on everything right?
 
This has nothing to do with the topic.

Thats what the people in Wyoming want and their elected officials are simply carrying that word to the White House, which they should.
I didn't say it has. I brought it up again, because Trump is shafting renewable energy just like the Wy Republicans were trying to do. This is why people hate Republicans, their shilling for corporate America is so egregious at times, that the stereotype of the GOP being the part of corporate America and the rich finds a lot of support.
 
How do you know its not? Direct your questions at yourself too.
You made the original claim.

And even if it is, so what? Is there any program that has no waste? Should we stop funding for all programs? There is a shit ton of waste in defense procurement, so let's stop funding the military.
 
And it just so happens that you have the inside scoop on everything right?
I don't. Thats why I tend not to post about things until the facts are clear. I'm saying it makes more sense to see what is cut and why before losing our shit about it. Just because its says "environment" on it doesn't mean there's no parasites in it.
 
How do you know its not? Direct your questions at yourself too.
As already stated in a reply up thread, these programs have underlying CBAs that are usually accessible.

Which cut program do you think is wasteful?
 
As already stated in a reply up thread, these programs have underlying CBAs that are usually accessible.

Which cut program do you think is wasteful?
When we're dealing with a 72% cut, there's just no way the "wasteful spending" line is gonna work. It's well, welllllllll beyond anything that could be pinned on waste.
I've always wondered why some people are so adamantly opposed to energy efficiency. It just baffles me. I get why people with a vested financial interest in shit like coal and oil hate this stuff, even if it's still horribly wrong headed, but the average person could save somewhere between a little and a lot of money with a home energy audit and comprehensive weatherization.
 
This has nothing to do with the topic.

Thats what the people in Wyoming want and their elected officials are simply carrying that word to the White House, which they should.
Weird...
http://climatecommunication.yale.ed...s-2016/?est=happening&type=value&geo=national
69% of people believe climate change is happening. Yet, the elected officials in washington aren't carrying out their will.
Funny how you're for politicians acting in accordance with the electorate when it's against acting on climate change, but not the other way around.
 
Damn, us Brits really needed someone like Trump in the 1980s.

Funny how everyone calls him right wing, when he's planning doing what even the most hardcore British socialists and trade unionists in the 80s weren't able to do.

If mines become unprofitable, then they close. Keeping them open artificially just to keeps jobs open doesn't make any sense economically. Trying to maintain production rates from depleted resources is traditionally one of the reasons communist economies have a high failure rate, as they expect the golden goose to just keep on laying, and don't have the flexibility or adaptability of capitalist economies.

Trying to introduce clean coal technology that'll increase the cost of using these mines even further again, also doesn't really make sense. Feeding the population lies about how they'll keep the mines open regardless of profitability made Arthur Scargill a hero in the 80s and won Trump an election, but it doesn't make sense economically. What makes sense economically is to take it from the cheapest source possible, such as places like Wyoming where it's it can be scraped off the surface for very little cost, or buying it from places like China or India where they pay their workers a pittance and have working conditions which would be considered intolerable in civilized countries.

Obviously this sucks really hard for communities which have built up around now depleted and unprofitable resources, but keeping unprofitable jobs open is a huge drain on the economy. Neither scenario is desirable.
 
When we're dealing with a 72% cut, there's just no way the "wasteful spending" line is gonna work. It's well, welllllllll beyond anything that could be pinned on waste.
I've always wondered why some people are so adamantly opposed to energy efficiency. It just baffles me. I get why people with a vested financial interest in shit like coal and oil hate this stuff, even if it's still horribly wrong headed, but the average person could save somewhere between a little and a lot of money with a home energy audit and comprehensive weatherization.

Exactly. So why does the average Joe, like @Seano , shill for Trump? They can't help but knee-jerk defend Trump , because the critics are liberals and liberals are the enemies.
 
Exactly. So why does the average Joe, like @Seano , shill for Trump? They can't help but knee-jerk defend Trump , because the critics are liberals and liberals are the enemies.
Hey, I'm no expert on whats been produced with this money so far. Show me what we've got from the investment. A few solar panels on some plumbers garage? Windmills?

What do we stand to lose with the cuts? (and if you say something lame like "the environment" then I'm not responding.)

I might even agree with you but until I know whats actually being cut I may as well save my outrage.
 
Hey, I'm no expert on whats been produced with this money so far. Show me what we've got from the investment. A few solar panels on some plumbers garage? Windmills?

What do we stand to lose with the cuts? (and if you say something lame like "the environment" then I'm not responding.)

I might even agree with you but until I know whats actually being cut I may as well save my outrage.
R&D doesn't always provide immediate tangible benefits. Some technology and large infrastructure projects requires government assistance, because it might be to expensive for private enterprise or they might not want to invest the amount of money it takes to get these large projects off the ground.

Are the Chinese stupid to invest in renewable energy?
"Even in China where coal is -- or was -- king, the government still recognizes that the economic opportunities of the future are going to be in clean energy," said Alvin Lin, Beijing-based climate and energy policy director with the Natural Resources Defense Council.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/18/technology/china-us-clean-energy-solar-farm/index.html

Even Saudi Arabia is investing in renewable energy
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/saudis-solar-energy/395315/
 
Hey, I'm no expert on whats been produced with this money so far. Show me what we've got from the investment. A few solar panels on some plumbers garage? Windmills?

What do we stand to lose with the cuts? (and if you say something lame like "the environment" then I'm not responding.)

I might even agree with you but until I know whats actually being cut I may as well save my outrage.
My specific policy and program knowledge is outdated by years now, but given a 72% reduction I can't imagine that the kind of work I used to do is surviving this except as a pale shadow of itself. With reductions of that magnitude, it's a problem of ethos. 72% is the bulk of everything. Wasteful, not wasteful, it's all mostly going to get dumpstered; as a result, i'm guessing you'd have an easier time looking up what's going to survive. It's very important to note that government funding for energy efficiency filters through a variety of intermediary organizations, many of them private, so it could be a while before the smoke clears.
Here's the thing: energy efficiency is an excellent use of money. The company I worked for, for example, would be offered contracts with public or private utilities to do work paid for in large part by government grant. What this meant was that they had a pool of money dedicated to improving home energy efficiency- mostly for low income housing (under 35k). They would hire outside contracting companies (us) to do the work. Utilities also do this work themselves, but have far less resources (staff) so outside contracting is a must. We would go to a house- either by invitation or as a cold call- and a do a comprehensive evaluation of the entire energy use, which allowed us to target areas of loss. Then we would fix it all up, retest, and if our numbers weren't good enough we wouldn't get paid. The home owner, however, did not get charged regardless of whether or not we hit target reduction. So we had a very high incentive to do as good of work as possible or not get paid, the home owner got it all for free, and the utility actually saved money because they were paying us via government grant to reduce energy loss on their system overall (which is a good thing). Our figures had to show a reimbursement rate that was cost effective or we did not get paid.
 
Has anyone explained what this is even cutting? Or just more outrage without substance
 
My specific policy and program knowledge is outdated by years now, but given a 72% reduction I can't imagine that the kind of work I used to do is surviving this except as a pale shadow of itself. With reductions of that magnitude, it's a problem of ethos. 72% is the bulk of everything. Wasteful, not wasteful, it's all mostly going to get dumpstered; as a result, i'm guessing you'd have an easier time looking up what's going to survive. It's very important to note that government funding for energy efficiency filters through a variety of intermediary organizations, many of them private, so it could be a while before the smoke clears.
Here's the thing: energy efficiency is an excellent use of money. The company I worked for, for example, would be offered contracts with public or private utilities to do work paid for in large part by government grant. What this meant was that they had a pool of money dedicated to improving home energy efficiency- mostly for low income housing (under 35k). They would hire outside contracting companies (us) to do the work. Utilities also do this work themselves, but have far less resources (staff) so outside contracting is a must. We would go to a house- either by invitation or as a cold call- and a do a comprehensive evaluation of the entire energy use, which allowed us to target areas of loss. Then we would fix it all up, retest, and if our numbers weren't good enough we wouldn't get paid. The home owner, however, did not get charged regardless of whether or not we hit target reduction. So we had a very high incentive to do as good of work as possible or not get paid, the home owner got it all for free, and the utility actually saved money because they were paying us via government grant to reduce energy loss on their system overall (which is a good thing). Our figures had to show a reimbursement rate that was cost effective or we did not get paid.
That reminds me: our local government or water utility would install free-of-charge low-flow faucet and shower heads for anyone. Our state also gives a substantial tax rebate for people installing tankless water heaters.

It would be nice if the State provided education and resources in managing the law, without the use of chemicals. And had workshops for organic gardening / vegetable growing.
 
Funny how everyone calls him right wing, when he's planning doing what even the most hardcore British socialists and trade unionists in the 80s weren't able to do.

If mines become unprofitable, then they close. Keeping them open artificially just to keeps jobs open doesn't make any sense economically. Trying to maintain production rates from depleted resources is traditionally one of the reasons communist economies have a high failure rate, as they expect the golden goose to just keep on laying, and don't have the flexibility or adaptability of capitalist economies.

Trying to introduce clean coal technology that'll increase the cost of using these mines even further again, also doesn't really make sense. Feeding the population lies about how they'll keep the mines open regardless of profitability made Arthur Scargill a hero in the 80s and won Trump an election, but it doesn't make sense economically. What makes sense economically is to take it from the cheapest source possible, such as places like Wyoming where it's it can be scraped off the surface for very little cost, or buying it from places like China or India where they pay their workers a pittance and have working conditions which would be considered intolerable in civilized countries.

Obviously this sucks really hard for communities which have built up around now depleted and unprofitable resources, but keeping unprofitable jobs open is a huge drain on the economy. Neither scenario is desirable.

Good post. Well articulated. I was being sarcastic tho
 
This has nothing to do with the topic.

Thats what the people in Wyoming want and their elected officials are simply carrying that word to the White House, which they should.

This is the interesting thing about democracy.

Should officials overule their mislead constituency or just let the stupud fuckers suffer.
 
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going to be a long 7 years for you Homer. lol.
 
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